Autopsy 2024 Rd 10 Pack up the tents, we're going home. Swans smash Blues.

[Dunna Heartknee]

Trying not to be a conspiracy theorist but, did anyone else notice that one team had to kick 20M or more to be payed a mark while the other was not held to the same requirement?

Or am I imagining things?

I'm not saying the result would have been different but, this sought of thing can amplify perceived pressure giving a skew-whiff pressure gauge rating and create a chasm between fatigue levels.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Trying not to be a conspiracy theorist but, did anyone else notice that one team had to kick 20M or more to be payed a mark while the other was not held to the same requirement?

Or am I imagining things?

I'm not saying the result would have been different but, this sought of thing can amplify perceived pressure giving a skew-whiff pressure gauge rating and create a chasm between fatigue levels.

Don’t start me on umpiring overall.

 

[AB_Blue]

Need to get more goals out of Harry and Charlie.


One of them should be scoring 5+ every week.

Too top heavy with TDK, H and Charles all up forward. We looked much better last week with CC up the ground…


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[BlueTongue]

Not sure how Fantasia keeps getting a spot (well I do really), but he really needs to stay in the VFL until he can earn a spot, instead of being gifted a spot on potential. If Mots is not ready, put Jack Carrol forward.

 

[GenYBlue]

Trying not to be a conspiracy theorist but, did anyone else notice that one team had to kick 20M or more to be payed a mark while the other was not held to the same requirement?

Or am I imagining things?

I'm not saying the result would have been different but, this sought of thing can amplify perceived pressure giving a skew-whiff pressure gauge rating and create a chasm between fatigue levels.

It just happens.

Human error on the umpire's part.

It certainly didn't feel like they were being more lenient or harsh with either team in my opinion.

 

[Coops93]

I've been noticing some cracks for a while but have held back as we've been mostly winning and didn't want to be a negative nelly as it were. Some may be wide of the mark, but after a loss like this, I'll just throw some out. Obviously saying it after a loss may be eye rolling but I've been noticing these since the start of the year mostly, just held back on it.

This one isn't necessarily controversial or anything, but I've been saying it all year and for the past couple, we lack f'ing goal kickers! It's really stark when you play against a side that's full of them, to the point that the commentators even mention that we'd love to have some of these goal kicking mids that Sydney have. Aside from the big 2 inside 50, and tbf Owies as developed into it, we have barely anyone that I would qualify as a "natural" goal kicker. None of our mids are, Cripps works hard at it but it's clearly an effort. Our wingers don't really, Cotts bobs up but isn't a constant threat. No one drifts down from half back for outside 50 bombs - McGov did on the wknd but it's far from a regular thing.

We need more avenues to goal. It's all well and good to just bomb it in to H and Charlie which often works as they're freaks, but if that doesn't work we have nothing else. I know Voss pushes defence more than anything, but really this is a priority for me. Against the best sides you need multiple threats. We don't really have that.

Speaking of our spearheads, Charlie has some habits that infuriate me. He often is looking for the kick over the top despite being 60m from the kicker. He's often behind his defender as a result making him ineffective in the contest and his opponent essentially a loose. When he is in the contest he so often gets stuck in wrestling matches. Yes he's a freak, yes he still manages to turn it on, but imagine how much better we'd/he'd be if he worked a bit harder to be a better target. His set shot kicking is also a bit iffy, and what has happened to his 40m+ kicking? He used to be near automatic from that range now can't buy one.

Harrys goal kicking. Ugh. It looked good for the first month, but... In his credit though his around the ground work has been just about career best so he's still having positive influence.

We love Walsh, it goes without saying, but does he know there's kicks shorter than 40m bombs? Multiple times a game he burns short, easy targets and instead blazes to a contest. This isn't new it's always been in his game, he plays with such ferocity that I think that sometimes goes into his kicking and he feels like he's got to kick it as hard as he can instead of being cool in the moment and spotting someone up.

Hewett is a non-factor and has been for a while this yr. Not sure what's going on here but in attack he's a liability. His kicking skills are shot. At the moment I think he needs to be a run with player. It's back in vogue so it's a role we can use.

Voss emphasises the contest game, but I think we're perhaps focussing on the wrong thing. The game and all the analysis has shown the most important aspect of modern footy is turnover/transition. We are good at intercepting and turning over, but our ability to transition from D to O is shocking. It could be personnel/injury based, and I can see that as a fair reason, but at the same time Voss and the club always talk about how we're system based, not dependent on individuals and are a next man up mentality side - and again it's a style, it's not as though we're trying but the cattle just can't do it, they aren't even trying. We need to spend energy on transition and stop this super slow play and bomb to a contest. Feels like footy form 10 yrs ago to a point.

The first month wasn't perfect but that transition game was exciting and modern, it's how the best teams win right now and had us at 4-0. Instead, we went away from it, brought Pitto in and doubled down on winning the contest at the expense of transition. Since then we've gone 2 wins, 4 losses. The scoreboard says we had it right and changed to a worse formula.

Something of an open question in my mind is, have we got too many "workmen" types in the side and not talent? Could be gameplan related but is something I think about.

 

[Jatz]

Not overly fazed by that result.

We've had an ongoing run against top teams with a mounting injury crisis. The SCG will be the hardest road trip in football this year.

We need to bounce back this week I don't think the loss to the Swans is season defining in any way.

 

[BeijingBlue]

Trying not to be a conspiracy theorist but, did anyone else notice that one team had to kick 20M or more to be payed a mark while the other was not held to the same requirement?

Or am I imagining things?

I'm not saying the result would have been different but, this sought of thing can amplify perceived pressure giving a skew-whiff pressure gauge rating and create a chasm between fatigue levels.

Then don't try to make excuses for a poor performance. Conspiracy theories are a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Gethelred]

I've been noticing some cracks for a while but have held back as we've been mostly winning and didn't want to be a negative nelly as it were. Some may be wide of the mark, but after a loss like this, I'll just throw some out. Obviously saying it after a loss may be eye rolling but I've been noticing these since the start of the year mostly, just held back on it.

This one isn't necessarily controversial or anything, but I've been saying it all year and for the past couple, we lack f'ing goal kickers! It's really stark when you play against a side that's full of them, to the point that the commentators even mention that we'd love to have some of these goal kicking mids that Sydney have. Aside from the big 2 inside 50, and tbf Owies as developed into it, we have barely anyone that I would qualify as a "natural" goal kicker. None of our mids are, Cripps works hard at it but it's clearly an effort. Our wingers don't really, Cotts bobs up but isn't a constant threat. No one drifts down from half back for outside 50 bombs - McGov did on the wknd but it's far from a regular thing.

I think you're underselling Cotts a bit -as he's been much more productive this year - but otherwise I agree. Walsh kicks one here and there but it's a bob up rather than consistently; Cerra is similar, and so is Hewitt. We have no mid/half forwards on the list who can kick a goal a game and play midfield; I've high hopes for Elijah, but as of yet he's more a mid than half forward.

The other side of it is that the coaching for our smalls inside 50 is ****ing awful. Their positioning is WRONG; if they're there they're not front and centre but at the sides of the pack, but more often than not they're not there at all. It's beyond frustrating; you want them hitting the front of the ball drop at pace to swoop on a ball that lands in front of them or going fast enough that you're already moving to where it's going if it gets out the back.

There's also that our smalls look pretty bloody slow sometimes, but that could come courtesy of playing all the way up the ground and being stuffed from repeat sprints. No-one looks fast when they're gassed.

We need more avenues to goal. It's all well and good to just bomb it in to H and Charlie which often works as they're freaks, but if that doesn't work we have nothing else. I know Voss pushes defence more than anything, but really this is a priority for me. Against the best sides you need multiple threats. We don't really have that.

I think we do, but not all the time. It's a work in progress, and the main problem is that we lack pace around the ball. When your Cerra/Walsh/Docherty gets the ball on the wing, they're hardly burning anyone off to run 50+m and take the shot themselves. About the only time we've seen that play was when Cuners did it against Adelaide (IIRC) over the past few years, and it's - frankly - unsurprising.

If list management doesn't know we need a bit more speed, they've rocks in their head. It'd be something they're looking to fix, one would think.

Speaking of our spearheads, Charlie has some habits that infuriate me. He often is looking for the kick over the top despite being 60m from the kicker. He's often behind his defender as a result making him ineffective in the contest and his opponent essentially a loose. When he is in the contest he so often gets stuck in wrestling matches. Yes he's a freak, yes he still manages to turn it on, but imagine how much better we'd/he'd be if he worked a bit harder to be a better target. His set shot kicking is also a bit iffy, and what has happened to his 40m+ kicking? He used to be near automatic from that range now can't buy one.

****. Yes.

Charlie hasn't looked right all year. I question if he's carrying an injury that prevents his leaping, because he appears reluctant to actually leap at the ball; his once extremely reliable hands are only 50-50 propositions at present; he used to be fairly quick off the mark but struggles to find separation.

And if he's injured, why is he playing?

He's also very, very lazy when it comes to tackling pressure. It's exposed a bit when there's no Fog to lay 8+ tackles a game, but he goes for his mark or the ground ball and if he doesn't get them he's out of the play. It's infuriating.

He needs to realise that everyone need pull their weight in pressure, that all it takes for the dam to break is a single weak point.

Harrys goal kicking. Ugh. It looked good for the first month, but... In his credit though his around the ground work has been just about career best so he's still having positive influence.

I don't agree here. It's made to look worse by the point blank shot he missed on the weekend, but outside that shot he's been much, much better.

He does need to be able to think of multiple things at once (you can see in his head when he's donned his tackling hat, because his play completely changes from his 'I'm playing the ball' hat) but outside of that there's not really all that much to criticise.

We love Walsh, it goes without saying, but does he know there's kicks shorter than 40m bombs? Multiple times a game he burns short, easy targets and instead blazes to a contest. This isn't new it's always been in his game, he plays with such ferocity that I think that sometimes goes into his kicking and he feels like he's got to kick it as hard as he can instead of being cool in the moment and spotting someone up.

This is true, but one wonders if that comes courtesy of who he's had to learn AFL footy from.

Put Walsh in Sydney from drafting, he's a dramatically different proposition to what he is developed by us; he's learnt from McVeigh, Parker, Mills, Rampe instead of Cripps, Docherty, and as a consequence chaining disposal and blocking - as well as going when it's your turn, blocking when it isn't - is learnt rather than 'I must win the ball'.

It's something that can be fixed and will definitely look better if/when we get cattle back, but it's what it is.

Hewett is a non-factor and has been for a while this yr. Not sure what's going on here but in attack he's a liability. His kicking skills are shot. At the moment I think he needs to be a run with player. It's back in vogue so it's a role we can use.

It's such a shame. Hewitt was incredibly reliable by foot last year, to the point where I'd have preferred the ball in his hands over Cripps and Walsh; this year he's been awful.

Voss emphasises the contest game, but I think we're perhaps focussing on the wrong thing. The game and all the analysis has shown the most important aspect of modern footy is turnover/transition. We are good at intercepting and turning over, but our ability to transition from D to O is shocking. It could be personnel/injury based, and I can see that as a fair reason, but at the same time Voss and the club always talk about how we're system based, not dependent on individuals and are a next man up mentality side - and again it's a style, it's not as though we're trying but the cattle just can't do it, they aren't even trying. We need to spend energy on transition and stop this super slow play and bomb to a contest. Feels like footy form 10 yrs ago to a point.

The first month wasn't perfect but that transition game was exciting and modern, it's how the best teams win right now and had us at 4-0. Instead, we went away from it, brought Pitto in and doubled down on winning the contest at the expense of transition. Since then we've gone 2 wins, 4 losses. The scoreboard says we had it right and changed to a worse formula.

Something of an open question in my mind is, have we got too many "workmen" types in the side and not talent? Could be gameplan related but is something I think about.

I honestly think it's cattle related. The players who went out are linchpins of the rebound game, with the players who are still available only really being capable of playing tough, inside footy.

We're playing workmen because the talent is always ****ing injured.

 

[Coops93]

I think you're underselling Cotts a bit -as he's been much more productive this year - but otherwise I agree. Walsh kicks one here and there but it's a bob up rather than consistently; Cerra is similar, and so is Hewitt. We have no mid/half forwards on the list who can kick a goal a game and play midfield; I've high hopes for Elijah, but as of yet he's more a mid than half forward.

The other side of it is that the coaching for our smalls inside 50 is ******* awful. Their positioning is WRONG; if they're there they're not front and centre but at the sides of the pack, but more often than not they're not there at all. It's beyond frustrating; you want them hitting the front of the ball drop at pace to swoop on a ball that lands in front of them or going fast enough that you're already moving to where it's going if it gets out the back.

There's also that our smalls look pretty bloody slow sometimes, but that could come courtesy of playing all the way up the ground and being stuffed from repeat sprints. No-one looks fast when they're gassed.

I'd never undersell Cotts - before the game I said he was a bigger out than Jack Martin was. I didn't think it was particularly close either tbf. I more refer to his natural goal kicking thing which was my main point. He's been a crafty threat this yr more.

Some of that is coaching, some is some level of natural nous imo. Of our small forwards on the weekend, Owies was late to footy, Durdin was a mid-converted to a small and the other is a seemingly cooked Fantasia. Not a lot of natural forward nous, and the one the supposedly has seems past it. Coaching is part, sure, but I think these guys generally are also coming from a long way back too. Owies at least is very good at being a lead up player, but ball spilling from a contest... not so much.

Agree with the pushing up field part. We ask a lot defensively of our small fwds/fwd flankers.

I think we do, but not all the time. It's a work in progress, and the main problem is that we lack pace around the ball. When your Cerra/Walsh/Docherty gets the ball on the wing, they're hardly burning anyone off to run 50+m and take the shot themselves. About the only time we've seen that play was when Cuners did it against Adelaide (IIRC) over the past few years, and it's - frankly - unsurprising.

If list management doesn't know we need a bit more speed, they've rocks in their head. It'd be something they're looking to fix, one would think.

Speed and dynamism is a must. I can see why we've held on to injured types in the category, as they fit the need, but depending on constantly injured guys to maybe one day get right long enough to play a season is castle on sand type of thinking.

heck. Yes.

Charlie hasn't looked right all year. I question if he's carrying an injury that prevents his leaping, because he appears reluctant to actually leap at the ball; his once extremely reliable hands are only 50-50 propositions at present; he used to be fairly quick off the mark but struggles to find separation.

And if he's injured, why is he playing?

He's also very, very lazy when it comes to tackling pressure. It's exposed a bit when there's no Fog to lay 8+ tackles a game, but he goes for his mark or the ground ball and if he doesn't get them he's out of the play. It's infuriating.

He needs to realise that everyone need pull their weight in pressure, that all it takes for the dam to break is a single weak point.

It seems there's a lot wrong with him atm, but somehow he's still leading the Coleman iirc. It's what makes him hard to criticise because he does turn a game in 5 minutes every other week.

But to be a more consistent team he needs to do more of the meat and potatoes stuff. Stuff that Harry does most weeks. Doing that has more of an impact on games. There's more to being a good key forward than just the goals.

I don't agree here. It's made to look worse by the point blank shot he missed on the weekend, but outside that shot he's been much, much better.

He does need to be able to think of multiple things at once (you can see in his head when he's donned his tackling hat, because his play completely changes from his 'I'm playing the ball' hat) but outside of that there's not really all that much to criticise.

I don't think he's as bad as he was and he's certainly better, but I'd not call him reliable. It's not his first bad miss of the yr, but I still have more faith than in the past. Maybe I'm on the contrary side here, but that point blank one I want him to snap. Anything inside 20 I'm fine with. Beyond that though I need to see a DP.

It's still an improvement, and aside from that I love his game this yr. He's clearly working very hard and is being rewarded. Charlie could learn from it.

This is true, but one wonders if that comes courtesy of who he's had to learn AFL footy from.

Put Walsh in Sydney from drafting, he's a dramatically different proposition to what he is developed by us; he's learnt from McVeigh, Parker, Mills, Rampe instead of Cripps, Docherty, and as a consequence chaining disposal and blocking - as well as going when it's your turn, blocking when it isn't - is learnt rather than 'I must win the ball'.

It's something that can be fixed and will definitely look better if/when we get cattle back, but it's what it is.

It can be worked on, and he's got a mate right next to him that's done it to a point - Cripps this yr has been excellent at hitting 20m passes instead of going long blindly. He used to just bang them out 90% of the time but now lowers the eyes. Walsh plays a bit faster and foot to the floor than Cripps but hopefully he can compose himself more when kicking.

I honestly think it's cattle related. The players who went out are linchpins of the rebound game, with the players who are still available only really being capable of playing tough, inside footy.

We're playing workmen because the talent is always ******* injured.

I'm still holding on it. I want to see the guys back before judging it but I'm open to both sides. We do need Boyd to get more of the ball though, we should be force feeding him. Most clubs force feed their HBFs they want to generate play, we don't.

That could be true, but like above, depending on constantly injured players is not dependable. At some point isn't an excuse, but rather self inflicted. Fool me once etc.

 

[ajb72]

If you want to bag McKay, I'd pick on his inability to keep his feet before anything else. The slightest body pressure and he is on the ground. Maybe it is from being so tall and having a high centre of gravity. Maybe he doesnt like chasing.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

If you want to bag McKay, I'd pick on his inability to keep his feet before anything else. The slightest body pressure and he is on the ground. Maybe it is from being so tall and having a high centre of gravity. Maybe he doesnt like chasing.

Yeah I think someone should tell Harry and our other tall forwards that they never get paid frees, so going to ground appealing for a free kick is only ever going to result in one less Carlton player in the contest.