Autopsy 2024 Rd 10 Pack up the tents, we're going home. Swans smash Blues.
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4flagsin5yrs
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4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
The "next man up" rationale is a flawed one because eventually reach a point where the man can't execute under pressure because they're either raw or not good enough. In that respect, we miss Doc so much, not just his versatility but his leadership. Playing at the SCG against the form team in the comp was always going to be tough, even with a full list.
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
And what's with the slipping over constantly....by most of our lot?
Someone should get hung for that error - that is simply unprofessional.
Someone should get hung for that error - that is simply unprofessional.
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- Jun 4, 2016
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What's laughable? I don't understand what you're trynna have a go at. Moir still can't run out half a vfl game. So. Idk what you want.
we just cant field a solid 22 though. That is where the frustrating stems from
Gethelred
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- May 1, 2016
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- #359
... at Marvel or the G, in front of 90 odd thousand.
I don't disagree with the point raised. What I take issue with is that of that list, only Saad and Cots can say they've been consistently available. Doc has spent an awful lot of time off the park -
- and so has Cerra, Jack, Martin, Fogs and Mots. Relying on unreliable availability is going to bite you in the arse.
Do you remember the WB under Eade, circa 2000? They had some amazing players in the full pomp of their careers; they were fast, tough, capable of blitzing opponents in a term around and in front of the ball. But every week - almost without fail - they'd lose a player to a hammy or a calf, and slowly slowly they'd begin to slow, then falter. Every year they were good - strong even - but every year they'd be just that touch worse than top 2, and because they were worse than top 2 they never got past an interstate prelim.
Sydney and GWS look likely to be top 4. This is likely to be a year that with an acceptable matchup in each game a side from 5th down could win the flag, but you want to avoid that interstate prelim at all costs.
BringFevBack2021
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- May 9, 2021
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Of course, I agree
However, the nuance to the injury excuse is always that you can’t blame it for your loss entirely. I think based on yesterday that if we had a full side we get much closer (particularly if we had Saad, Cottrell and Cerra - not as concerned with the others) BUT ultimately I still think Sydney’s game plan beat ours comfortably
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
Agree with that too.... at Marvel or the G, in front of 90 odd thousand.
I don't disagree with the point raised. What I take issue with is that of that list, only Saad and Cots can say they've been consistently available. Doc has spent an awful lot of time off the park -
Relying on unreliable availability is going to bite you in the arse.
Do you remember the WB under Eade, circa 2000? They had some amazing players in the full pomp of their careers; they were fast, tough, capable of blitzing opponents in a term around and in front of the ball. But every week - almost without fail - they'd lose a player to a hammy or a calf, and slowly slowly they'd begin to slow, then falter. Every year they were good - strong even - but every year they'd be just that touch worse than top 2, and because they were worse than top 2 they never got past an interstate prelim.
Sydney and GWS look likely to be top 4. This is likely to be a year that with an acceptable matchup in each game a side from 5th down could win the flag, but you want to avoid that interstate prelim at all costs.
Staggered that Motlop had been injured all season and that Martin goes down in a 2km/hr wind....
I find it hard to believe all these injuries are the players themselves - must be something else going on...
Not that they occur (it's a hard game), but they recur and then there are lengthy lay offs.
Gethelred
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The problem is the opportunity cost of playing someone for 40% game time. It's twofold: first, you have the fact that for every minute Moir (or whoever you choose that can only play for 40% game time) sits on the bench is a minute that the mids, defenders, rucks and forwards don't take a rest. Then - if you want to maximise Moir's input versus his rest time - you have to give him bursts of play before taking him off for a break; you have 75 interchanges to play with, all match.
Where you could absolutely do what you're suggesting once upon a time, these days you simply cannot carry someone underdone. You need to be able to run out games, and that means you need all 4 bench rotations available without removing one to give a bloke 40% game time.
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
40 was just a number I plucked...
When the alternatives are getting 3 touches in a match, laying 1 tackle, at most, etc how fit the guy is almost becomes irrelevant frankly?
People need to take a breath with kids in the VFL, bringing in one or more of them last night would have made no difference to team output
Our structure broke down, too many broken tackles, lack of team pressure in numbers, guys focusing only on their opponent and not peeling off to support, unwilling or incapable of body checking opponents to disrupt tags, no body touch in making contests, etc, etc
If all you want is to see an extra disposal or 2 by playing an underdeveloped kid, you would be setting them up to fail
Our structure broke down, too many broken tackles, lack of team pressure in numbers, guys focusing only on their opponent and not peeling off to support, unwilling or incapable of body checking opponents to disrupt tags, no body touch in making contests, etc, etc
If all you want is to see an extra disposal or 2 by playing an underdeveloped kid, you would be setting them up to fail
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
That is to miss the point.
Why keep playing a few who are horribly, horribly out of form at the expense of giving a few kids a taste of the big time?
Some might just surprise - we won't know if we don't give them the chance.
- Oct 8, 2004
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But even in our last clash 2 weeks back, imo Carlton went in with a stronger 22.
A young Carlton supporter today may never see another forward line as stacked as you have now in their lifetime. It's the Franklin, Roughead, Gunston of a previous decade.
I've watched the Pies since the 80's and we've never had anything like that at one time.
- Nov 21, 2015
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This exactly! Spot on.
Gethelred
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It's a fair point. Just, it's one of those statistics things: a player who is capable of playing 70% game time is freeing up others to sit on the bench. It's why Cotts is such a huge out; forget everything he does with ball in hand or defensively, he's routinely sitting at 90%+ game time and - as a consequence - frees up other players to take longer breaks should they need to.
- Apr 21, 2019
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So he didn’t get a disposal within 70m of goal for the entire match? …holy shite, that is not good. Fantasia is the first one I’d be chopping, but it’s not as clear of a choice as I thought.
Cerra Cottrell Martin Fog Motlop
Run, Speed, mongrel and skill…Missed that a lot last night
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Run, Speed, mongrel and skill…Missed that a lot last night
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- Apr 21, 2019
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I always feel like we’re a 2x goal better side with Martin in the team. Wouldn’t have made the difference last night, bit he’s really important in big/close matches.
Cerra and Cotters were massive outs in the context of last nights games. Cerra would have made a big difference in the midfield where we got smashed. Cotters is one of very few players that mongrels us back into the contest and drags team mates along for the ride - he’s not a game winner, but his impact on the mental resilience of the playing group has been proven time and again.
sparkybagger
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- May 24, 2023
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I've taken 12+ hours to reflect on last night before reading/posting anything. The conclusion for me is that I can still can't really tell how far off it we are given that a third of the side should be playing VFL. I think the issues we've had this year are still fundamentally system-based though along with being at a speed disadvantage to certain sides (Swans, Pies).
We saw just how good Horse is as a coach last night. This flows into his players (many of whom are still very young in their careers) being able to recognise what was happening and making the adjustments themselves rather than waiting until quarter time to be told what to do.
The speed discrepancy once the ball gets outside is truly horrific. We've built a side of Clydesdales expecting them to try and catch Thoroughbreds. Our skills are not good enough to avoid turning it over and I don't care that Oli can run 16km a game if it's going to be 30% slower than his opponent. Durds, Zac, and Acres are probably the only 3 in the side last night that could catch a cold on the outside. There's a really clear way to beat us (force the long kick, turnover and counter at pace) and good sides will continue to punish us for it.
We saw just how good Horse is as a coach last night. This flows into his players (many of whom are still very young in their careers) being able to recognise what was happening and making the adjustments themselves rather than waiting until quarter time to be told what to do.
The speed discrepancy once the ball gets outside is truly horrific. We've built a side of Clydesdales expecting them to try and catch Thoroughbreds. Our skills are not good enough to avoid turning it over and I don't care that Oli can run 16km a game if it's going to be 30% slower than his opponent. Durds, Zac, and Acres are probably the only 3 in the side last night that could catch a cold on the outside. There's a really clear way to beat us (force the long kick, turnover and counter at pace) and good sides will continue to punish us for it.
None of those players are quick, maybe Mots for 15m.
Look at Sydney and it’s a team full of strong, wirey, quick, clean footballers.
Just there straight out body shape and size is an amazing combination, all of them are strong, hard & skillful.
I said it last night, our guys look like a bunch of misfit toys u find in a box at the back of a garage sale!
We literally have no one who looks like Warner, Heeney etc
They have a team the bulk of which are modern day deadset footballers
Pretty much sums it up haveago.
We need you in the rooms to fire the players up…every player needs to Have a Go otherwise they will have to go at the end of the season.
Pantsed by the best team in the comp with excellent form and minimal injuries whereas we have an unbelievable injury list and the draw from hell caught up with us. No doubt we were destroyed but if (and it is a big IF) we can get our injuries under control and put something close to our best team on the park (noting JSOS and Doc are gone for the season) then we are in the mix against anyone. More troubling is our game style which militates against being able to win comfortably against decent competition - which in turn adds to the cumulative effect of hard slogs week after week and will catch up with us at the business end of the season unless we are very lucky with injuries - a turn-around which is well overdue.
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