Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

[Ned_Flanders]

What’s better? 90% accuracy on RAT or people simply staying away from PCR test facilities because of queues and delays?

your view is the exact one that terrifies me with RAT

people assume 90% is awesome, and they start treating it as an absolute answer AND a replacement to PCR

add to this, even if its accurate, the test has imitations:

1) it has a higher detection threshold than PCR. so if you only have a low viral load, you may test negative

2) it cannot detect infection in the early days - only when you have an established infection. so someone who tests too soon can falsely think they are good

3) storage conditions (ie temperature, humidity, etc) effect these devices over time.

 

[Crankyhawk]

What’s better? 90% accuracy on RAT or people simply staying away from PCR test facilities because of queues and delays?

again this answer is complex
if there are people staying away who are symptomatic but otherwise isolate themselves and not on transmit to others, that is better than people symptomatic getting a false negative and then going around and doing things in community
if there are close contacts who don't attend for testing but otherwise isolate its better than getting false negative

conversely people who don't isolate properly without being told they are positive then having a RAT available is better.

 

[Sttew]

your view is the exact one that terrifies me with RAT

people assume 90% is awesome, and they start treating it as an absolute answer AND a replacement to PCR

add to this, even if its accurate, the test has imitations:

1) it has a higher detection threshold than PCR. so if you only have a low viral load, you may test negative

2) it cannot detect infection in the early days - only when you have an established infection. so someone who tests too soon can falsely think they are good

3) storage conditions (ie temperature, humidity, etc) effect these devices over time.

But potentially infected people staying away from test facilities is worse, and this is reportedly happening - asymptomatic people who are close contacts being deterred from getting tested and not isolating

 

[adogsfan5]

I don’t see any other alternative here. We are making healthy people who want to travel, wait days for a test result. They are clogging the PCR queue over those who need it more. This is not living with covid. If we miss some positives due to RAT tests not being 100% accurate, does it really matter? There’s covid out there undetected whether we like it or not.

On the side to this, is there also an app that tracks your RAT results or is it the honesty system that you’ll then contact DHS if positive?

 

[Crankyhawk]

I don’t see any other alternative here. We are making healthy people who want to travel, wait days for a test result. They are clogging the PCR queue over those who need it more. This is not living with covid. If we miss some positives due to RAT tests not being 100% accurate, does it really matter? There’s covid out there undetected whether we like it or not.

On the side to this, is there also an app that tracks your RAT results or is it the honesty system that you’ll then contact DHS if positive?

I think it is honesty system.
Other states also have had access issues to RAT tests (I think this has been less of an issue in vic due to vic being where tests are shipped to from overseas then on distributed interstate - based on what was mentioned on radio a couple of days ago)
RAT are relatively expensive ($6-20/ test) which may make it out of reach of people who are driving interstate

I would
- not test interstate driving travellers except for those going to WA
- RAT test those going on planes and boats, while finding some way to reduce the costs/ free tests

 

[kalex6251]

the accuracy of RAT's is said improve if done daily over a period of time - meaning the RAT on day 4/5 of a 7-day testing process will provide a fairly accurate picture of where youre at

but then that requires access to test kits to support a daily program of this length .... and a disciplinary commitment by those doing the tests to accurately follow the procedure ...... daily

lot of unknowns here

 

[adogsfan5]

the accuracy of RAT's is said improve if done daily over a period of time - meaning the RAT on day 4/5 of a 7-day testing process will provide a fairly accurate picture of where youre at

but then that requires access to test kits to support a daily program of this length .... and a disciplinary commitment by those doing the tests to accurately follow the procedure ...... daily

lot of unknowns here

Should they come out and give us more info / clear instructions on how to get the most accurate result? It’s surely better than our current position.

 

[Sttew]

Should they come out and give us more info / clear instructions on how to get the most accurate result? It’s surely better than our current position.

The current “system’ is untenable

 

[eddiesmith]

Should they come out and give us more info / clear instructions on how to get the most accurate result? It’s surely better than our current position.

A lot also depends on the actual test used. This includes the different tests and their effectiveness.

Which Covid rapid antigen tests sold in Australia can you trust and what do they cost? | Australia news | The Guardian

Long lines at Covid testing sites have seen people turn to rapid antigen tests for convenient results in the lead-up to Christmas

amp.theguardian.com

 

[kalex6251]

if accuracy is paramount then these RAT's will want to have nailed down a testing process that is dumbf$%k proof ... its not just the average punter youre trying to accommodate for here

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But potentially infected people staying away from test facilities is worse, and this is reportedly happening - asymptomatic people who are close contacts being deterred from getting tested and not isolating

you think those people are going to pay $20 for regular testing? dream on

 

[adogsfan5]

The current “system’ is untenable

Correct.

 

[Sttew]

you think those people are going to pay $20 for regular testing? dream on

Of course there are people who won’t, but there are plenty who will and who have already invested heavily in kits. Easing pressure on the PCR facilities has to be the No.1 objective now. If it’s the difference between attending a function or not, seeing friends or not, $15 is a small price for peace of mind

 

[Not Important]

A lot also depends on the actual test used. This includes the different tests and their effectiveness.

Which Covid rapid antigen tests sold in Australia can you trust and what do they cost? | Australia news | The Guardian

Long lines at Covid testing sites have seen people turn to rapid antigen tests for convenient results in the lead-up to Christmas

amp.theguardian.com

and how well the tests r done.

 

[eddiesmith]

Of course there are people who won’t, but there are plenty who will and who have already invested heavily in kits. Easing pressure on the PCR facilities has to be the No.1 objective now. If it’s the difference between attending a function or not, seeing friends or not, $15 is a small price for peace of mind

Or $7 from Costco

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Of course there are people who won’t, but there are plenty who will and who have already invested heavily in kits. Easing pressure on the PCR facilities has to be the No.1 objective now. If it’s the difference between attending a function or not, seeing friends or not, $15 is a small price for peace of mind

1) rat is useless for travel, so people doing it because they have to can't use it

2) those exposed need a PCR because they are a probable, and that needs accuracy - not just voluntary screening

3) that leaves those who are symptomatic, and the ones who won't do that for PCR won't do it absolutely if they have to pay for it.

The solution is more PCR machines or more accurate rat tests. None are a short term fix

 

[Sttew]

1) rat is useless for travel, so people doing it because they have to can't use it

2) those exposed need a PCR because they are a probable, and that needs accuracy - not just voluntary screening

3) that leaves those who are symptomatic, and the ones who won't do that for PCR won't do it absolutely if they have to pay for it.

The solution is more PCR machines or more accurate rat tests. None are a short term fix

You are so negative Ned.

Neither of your solutions are going to happen overnight and meanwhile the current system is at breaking point!

Covid is well and truly in QLD now so why require PCR tests if coming from VIc or NSW? The horse has bolted.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You are so negative Ned.

Neither of your solutions are going to happen overnight and meanwhile the current system is at breaking point!

Covid is well and truly in QLD now so why require PCR tests if coming from VIc or NSW? The horse has bolted.

And you think rat is the solution? How do you police at home tests? We will have people travelling knowing that they are positive and ignoring the restrictions because they get their mate to do the test for them.

There are no quick fixes here. We need longer term solutions, not band aids

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

RATs can't replace PCR, but they can be used as short term at home pre-PCR screening for non-household contacts and those with no symptoms.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

News media would be calling for Andrews to be catapulted into the sun if this happened in Victoria.

 

[kalex6251]

^^^

this is the political sh$tshow both newscorp and the lnp have allowed take root in this country ..... an absolute f#$king disgrace

 

[adogsfan5]

Rapid tests could clear close contacts in major testing change

The Andrews government placed a major order for rapid 15-minute tests before Christmas.

www.theage.com.au

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Rapid tests could clear close contacts in major testing change

The Andrews government placed a major order for rapid 15-minute tests before Christmas.

www.theage.com.au

This is the right move.

Non-symptomatic and preferably non-household contacts using RATs for pre-screening.

 

[Sttew]

And you think rat is the solution? How do you police at home tests? We will have people travelling knowing that they are positive and ignoring the restrictions because they get their mate to do the test for them.

There are no quick fixes here. We need longer term solutions, not band aids

I haven’t said anywhere RAT’s replace PCR. What I have said is we need to ease pressure on the PCR system in the immediate short term. You’ve offered no solution. I say RAT’s can be used to ease the pressure, e.g., for those travelling interstate to QLD & SA.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

your view is the exact one that terrifies me with RAT

people assume 90% is awesome, and they start treating it as an absolute answer AND a replacement to PCR

add to this, even if its accurate, the test has imitations:

1) it has a higher detection threshold than PCR. so if you only have a low viral load, you may test negative

2) it cannot detect infection in the early days - only when you have an established infection. so someone who tests too soon can falsely think they are good

3) storage conditions (ie temperature, humidity, etc) effect these devices over time.

Terrifies you?