Hurley and Ryder, Cloke and Dawes, Franklin and Roughead, Walker and Tippett

[themarkedman72]

I don't either. If the tribunal applies common sense to this charge the MRP will be left with serious egg on their faces not to mention some fairly telling questions to answer. That's just not likely to happen but as I've said elsewhere, it's time someone stood up and took a stand against these ridiculous decisions. They make the game look so amateurish when they are so inconsistent.

Demetrious pay packet tells me that we shouldnt have such a weak, confusing and messy judicial system when officiating player reports.

same rules apply to umpiring generally:

How demetriou can get so much cash and yet umpires who are asked to officiate with ever increasing and more confusing rules are still part time is beyond me.

More umps and make them fulltime.

Wont help Dawes.

 

[Prem87]

I have a feeling that people are putting this pair's potential and their hopes at what these players will become just a little bit ahead of actual current output. Nothing new for BigFooty though They are doing very well for a young tandem though, I'll give them that (better on actual output than the Tippett/Walker tandem, despite seemingly having less talent and potential, if that makes sense). Kennedy is now in his 6th AFL season - probably the last one where he can be referred to as a "young/developing player.

So far in 2011, IMO the Cloke/Dawes and Franklin/Roughead combos are clearly leading the way, with the Collingwood tandem is possibly edging the Hawks pair (cue calls of own club bias) as far as being a complete key forward package of marking (the Buddy/Roughy tandem is sorely lacking in this area, despite being equal on goals/goals contributed), goalkicking and giving tackling/defensive effort as well (not usually the domain of the big forwards, but increasing important in today's game, and a good indicator of overall workrate). The knock used on the Collingwood pair used to be that the Collingwood pair didn't kick enough goals (and that Cloke wasn't accurate enough), but they've improved that markedly this year (along with their accuracy, although Dawes has always been a nice shot at goal). Essendon supporters will hate me for this (as it takes away one of the positives of their tandem), but I don't rate goal assists as being as important a statistical measure for key forwards as I would for other smaller forwards and midfielders. The key forwards are traditionally meant to be the finishers, with the others being the set-up men. Still, it's a bonus that the Essendon pair can provide as much as they do for their team in this area.

Sure, put the Collingwood pair's success early this year it down to volume of ball and quality of delivery all you like, but as I've said in the past to those that dismissed Cameron Mooney's peak output as solely being a byproduct of Geelong's superstar midfield, the forward still has to have the ability to make the most of the opportunities by actually taking the marks and kicking the goals. In fact, show me one key forward in the history of the game who wasn't reliant on delivery from teammates for the majority of the goal-scoring opportunities.

Looking at the hard stats as they stand so far this year (after Round 4):

Goals Per Game (Combined)

• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 5.75
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 5.75
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 3.50
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 3.25
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 3.17

Behinds Per Game (Combined)

• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 4.25
• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 2.75
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 2.75
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 2.50
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 2.25

Goal Assists Per Game (Combined)

• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 3.00
• Kennedy/Darling - 1.50
• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 0.50
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 0.50
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 0.50

Goals Contributed (Goals plus Goal Assists) Per Game (Combined)

• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 6.50
• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 6.25
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 6.25
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 4.75
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 3.67

Disposals Per Game (Combined)

• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 34.50
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 32.50
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 28.83
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 27.25
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 26.75

Marks Per Game (Combined)

• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 14.50
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 13.00
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 12.00
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 9.00
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 9.00

Contested Marks Per Game (Combined)

• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 5.75
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 3.50
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 3.25
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 2.25
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 2.00

Inside 50s Per Game (Combined)

• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 7.75
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 7.00
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 6.00
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 4.67
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 4.50

Tackles Per Game (Combined)

• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 7.25
• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 7.00
• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 6.75
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 3.50
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 1.67

Champion Data Player Ranking Score Average (Combined)

• Franklin/Roughead (Hawthorn) - 200.00
• Cloke/Dawes (Collingwood) - 197.00
• Ryder/Hurley (Essendon) - 182.50
• Kennedy/Darling (West Coast) - 163.75
• Tippett/Walker (Adelaide) - 117.50

Champion Data Player Ranking Score Average (Individual)

• Lance Franklin (Hawthorn, 196cm, 102kg) - 118.25 (ahead of his career bests of 107.50 last year, and 107.00 in his much-hyped 2008 season)
• Chris Dawes (Collingwood, 193cm, 101kg) - 110.50
• Patrick Ryder (Essendon, 197cm, 95kg) - 98.50
• Travis Cloke (Collingwood, 196cm, 101kg) - 86.50
• Michael Hurley (Essendon, 193cm, 89kg) - 84.00
• Josh J. Kennedy (West Coast, 194cm, 99kg) - 83.75
• Jarryd Roughead (Hawthorn, 193cm, 100kg) - 81.75
• Jack Darling (West Coast, 191cm, 87kg) - 80.00
• Kurt Tippett (Adelaide, 201cm, 100kg) - 59.50
• Taylor Walker (Adelaide, 192cm, 97kg) - 58.00

Great post, thanks for the stats

Simply put Darling and Kennedy need to kick more goals together. However, Darling's only a first year player, expectations to kick goals aren't high. Though as a duo they're doing everything else very well.

 

[Roby]

Franklin/Lisle is a better duo. You heard it here first!

 

[doppleganger]

How are Ryder and Hurley going now??

 

[Geelongsince1984]

How are Ryder and Hurley going now??

err..cloke wasnt that great today.. droped a lot of contested marks from what i seen in last 2 quarters.. only marks i seen him take was when he was on his own

 

[sr36]

err..cloke wasnt that great today.. droped a lot of contested marks from what i seen in last 2 quarters.. only marks i seen him take was when he was on his own

OOOOOOOOOkKKKKKKKKKKKK.

 

[doppleganger]

err..cloke wasnt that great today.. droped a lot of contested marks from what i seen in last 2 quarters.. only marks i seen him take was when he was on his own

??? Cloke pulled down 10 marks and kicked 3 goals.

Hurley and Ryder combined for 4 marks and didn't bother to contribute on the scoreboard.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Just another 6 contested marks to Cloke. He was fabulous again.

 

[cfx_1]

Cloke carried, dragged and kicked collingwood over the line today... Whether it was taking a contested mark on the wing to bail us out of the shit or inside 50 to kick the goal, he played superb....


BEST CONTESTED MARK IN THE COMP..... (well excluding J Brown, but he needs to stop getting injured)

 

[Rustin Cohle]

I noticed Cloke dropped a few markable balls in the second and third quarter but he really turned it on in the last quarter when the game was there to be won. Just goes to show you the value of fitness and repeat efforts. He also kicked straight under pressure which pleasantly surprised me.

 

[Ron The Bear]

How are Ryder and Hurley going now??

A little worse than the dynamic tag-team of Miller/Riewoldt.

 

[Thommo 42]

err..cloke wasnt that great today.. droped a lot of contested marks from what i seen in last 2 quarters.. only marks i seen him take was when he was on his own

you are a Winty contender for sure

 

[Geelongsince1984]

you are a Winty contender for sure

I only seen a quarter and a half of the game. Cloke didnt look as good as your people say he is. My opinion. Winty must be a thing for the magpie short bus

 

[South of the Yarra]

I only seen a quarter and a half of the game. Cloke didnt look as good as your people say he is. My opinion. Winty must be a thing for the magpie short bus

Clokes game was good enough for Dermott Brereton to say that Cloke is a colossus who ripped the game apart with his strength and contested marking. He also said that Cloke is now the most dominant and intimidating forward in the game.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I only seen a quarter and a half of the game. Cloke didnt look as good as your people say he is. My opinion. Winty must be a thing for the magpie short bus

Cloke is an above average player. Probably borderline Top 50. Will kick about 50 goals this season ( which will be his best year to date yeah? ) with great delivery and the ball being kicked down his throat.

Stick him in a side like Richmond and he would struggle to kick 30 goals in a year. Dawes is going to end up being Collingwoods number 1 forward within 2 years.

 

[Geelongsince1984]

Clokes game was good enough for Dermott Brereton to say that Cloke is a colossus who ripped the game apart with his strength and contested marking. He also said that Cloke is now the most dominant and intimidating forward in the game.

Brereton is probably right there, none of the other forwards have fire or are playing different roles.
So of course cloke would be the dominant forward, browns out, riewoldt is quiet, buddy is the usual, pavlich plays everywhere, podsiadly still hasnt made an impact, j riewoldt is too busy being richo.
Good luck to him though, could be his year

 

[Slattery_20]

Cloke was only good through the first 3 quarters. Kicked 1 (maybe should've been 2) although he got plenty of it on the lead. Did kick the one that sank us - his finishing's improved 100% - and got a cheapie after that, so ended up being a pretty good day without being "dominant" or "elite".
Dawes didn't do much until junk time.
Ryder quiet. Really, really quiet. He'll be lucky to hold his spot next week.

 

[gravy1]

Cloke is an above average player. Probably borderline Top 50. Will kick about 50 goals this season ( which will be his best year to date yeah? ) with great delivery and the ball being kicked down his throat.

Stick him in a side like Richmond and he would struggle to kick 30 goals in a year. Dawes is going to end up being Collingwoods number 1 forward within 2 years.

He may kick 50, may not, probably not the best way to measure a key forward at Collingwood. The point I wanna make is the delivery to him is not particularly great at all. Sometimes it is, of course, but mostly we bomb the ball long inside 50. The fact he takes so many contested marks, and that his ratio of contested to uncontested marks is so high, shows you he isn't getting the ball on his own on a lead, lace out etc.

His value is his workrate, the number of possessions he gets on the wing, he's number 1 key forward in the competition for inside 50s.

And the view that any given key forward would kick more goals in a better team, or kick less goals in a lesser team is pretty outdated and has pretty much been disproven.