List Mgmt. Hypothetical trades and wishlists thread

[HolyRioli]

They're much worse off than we are for youth, the only decent youngster they have coming through is Nakia Cockatoo.

Parfitt looks quality

 

[dipper86]

lets compare the pair

Dustin Martin over 5 years (113 games)(26 years old)
Disp - 3093(27.4), Disp Eff - 67%, Cont Poss - 10.2pg, Marks - 4.6pg, Clearances - 4pg, Tackles - 3.3pg, Goals - 1pg, Goal Assist - 0.73pg, Clangers - 4.2pg, 1%er's - 1pg

Tom Rockliff over 5 years (92 games)(27 years old)
Disp - 2546(27.7), Disp Eff - 69%, Cont Poss - 11.1pg, Marks - 4.7pg, Clearances - 5.6pg, Tackles - 6.9pg, Goals - 0.58pg, Goal Assist - 0.46pg, Clangers - 3.1pg, 1%er's - 1pg

media hype sure helps inflate value of players amongst the masses of sheeple... but in all seriousness, Martin has had an amazing year this year, in comparison to Rockliffs worst year, i have never based judgement of a player on 1 year alone, mainly because you could be looking at a snapshot of their best or worst rather than a gauge of what they usually and will contribute...

But the reality is they aren't the same player, Stats can make any player look equal. It doesn't take into account impact, it doesn't take into account if one is explosive from the contest or if ones not, it doesn't take into account if ones more damaging or creative by foot, it doesn't take into account if one has pace or not.
5 year period is too wide. Martin's past 2 years have been superior to anything Rockliff has dished out....they are most definitely not worth the same figure.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

But the reality is they aren't the same player, Stats can make any player look equal. It doesn't take into account impact, it doesn't take into account if one is explosive from the contest or if ones not, it doesn't take into account if ones more damaging or creative by foot, it doesn't take into account if one has pace or not.
5 year period is too wide. Martin's past 2 years have been superior to anything Rockliff has dished out....they are most definitely not worth the same figure.

Agreed. Rockliff is a really good player, but he can't break open a game the way Martin did against the Cats. He's at a slightly different level - and I don't need the footy media to tell me that (mainly because I barely read it these days anyway).

 

[hawk65]

its all water for courses, some say Judd was better than Hodge outside of out footy club, but thats what the media hype does, it blinds you to critical thinking.... is Martin worth more than Rockliff right now? yes, i even have in my original post that Martin is approx $700k of value and Rockliff depending on his year is $550k-700k value.... i dont believe any player in the league is worth 10-15% of the Salary Cap which is what $1.2mill a year is approx

there are more sheeple that believe in fairy tales than you might think, look at all these clubs fighting over top 10 draft picks thinking they will all be champions, when its more like 6 out of the top 10 will gain them any player of value..... reality is overlooked for fantasies everywhere

The more you sell Rockliff the more I want him at the Hawks

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Parfitt looks quality

Yeah I agree he looks very nice. Once he starts getting his hands on the ball more he will be a gem.

 

[OzJohnnie]

I wonder what sort of difference having the whole post-season to work on trade week will have for the Hawks. Normally, I would imagine GW and his footy mgmt lackeys are busy slaving away in spreadsheets largely by themselves. Now he can get Clarko and the whole coaching staff's full attention for a couple months before the trades happen. More bodies to run around assessing, planning and talking to prospects.

Do you think this will make trade weeks more aggressive (is that even possible after last year?) or maybe calmer and all worked out like a chess master?

 

[Teamwork Talks]

lets compare the pair

Dustin Martin over 5 years (113 games)(26 years old)
Disp - 3093(27.4), Disp Eff - 67%, Cont Poss - 10.2pg, Marks - 4.6pg, Clearances - 4pg, Tackles - 3.3pg, Goals - 1pg, Goal Assist - 0.73pg, Clangers - 4.2pg, 1%er's - 1pg

Tom Rockliff over 5 years (92 games)(27 years old)
Disp - 2546(27.7), Disp Eff - 69%, Cont Poss - 11.1pg, Marks - 4.7pg, Clearances - 5.6pg, Tackles - 6.9pg, Goals - 0.58pg, Goal Assist - 0.46pg, Clangers - 3.1pg, 1%er's - 1pg

media hype sure helps inflate value of players amongst the masses of sheeple... but in all seriousness, Martin has had an amazing year this year, in comparison to Rockliffs worst year, i have never based judgement of a player on 1 year alone, mainly because you could be looking at a snapshot of their best or worst rather than a gauge of what they usually and will contribute...

Outstanding piece of work Davo.
The figures speak for themselves.

 

[Mitchell54]

Stringers form going down along with the popularity of stringed cheese

 

[dajesmac]

Swap for Gaff who wants to come home , maybe a swap of picks somewhere .

 

[dajesmac]

Gets alot of undeserved hate on this board, can be quite damaging with his run and carry and even disposals at times but seems to have a confidence issue which stops him from going up to the next level, really struggles with pulling the trigger and stepping up to the plate. He can be a bit quite soft but at times has burst of defensive effort where he will ping a much bigger body, just needs to read the play better for when it's his turn to go, we've seen him do it just not enough.

Has the tools to be an A grade player but unless he can get a grip of when it's his turns to go he will remain as a C class player with glimpses of a B grade player.

It looks like he's had a reasonable year statistically. Is he under contract?

I think the asking price would be our second pick (#30). I'm probably not super keen on that, not because I don't think that's his value but because attribute-wise I don't think he is suitable for us.

As for the Gaff talk, not sure how a Hawthorn deal could get done given the asking price would either be a pick in the top 8 or so, or a best 22 midfielder. I think he stays anyway.

 

[threesixpio]

It looks like he's had a reasonable year statistically. Is he under contract?

I think the asking price would be our second pick (#30). I'm probably not super keen on that, not because I don't think that's his value but because attribute-wise I don't think he is suitable for us.

As for the Gaff talk, not sure how a Hawthorn deal could get done given the asking price would either be a pick in the top 8 or so, or a best 22 midfielder. I think he stays anyway.

Any other players in other positions that could tickle your fancy?

 

[flinchfree]

I wonder what sort of difference having the whole post-season to work on trade week will have for the Hawks. Normally, I would imagine GW and his footy mgmt lackeys are busy slaving away in spreadsheets largely by themselves. Now he can get Clarko and the whole coaching staff's full attention for a couple months before the trades happen. More bodies to run around assessing, planning and talking to prospects.

Do you think this will make trade weeks more aggressive (is that even possible after last year?) or maybe calmer and all worked out like a chess master?

It's a really interesting thought.
I'd imagine with our dip this year, Clarko will have poured himself into evaluating EVERY area of the club and will be thumbs deep into pushing what he thinks are our drafting/trading needs for next season and beyond.
Whereas previously we may have gone best available (or highest ceiling), and the evaluating left to GW based largely on his observations alone (and then shared with Clarko and other coaches to guage their approval), I think Clarko will be picturing a new game plan for the future (promise savage L ) and plotting the player types needed to make it work. Me thinks he'll have watched a whole lot of game tape too this last couple weeks...

During this re-build we'll work harder than any other football department to create the next wave as quickly as possible, and no doubt more will be asked of our people managers to make it happen.

 

[flinchfree]

Outstanding piece of work Davo.
The figures speak for themselves.

Uhhh, no.
That comparison for me is like asking Scott West or Doug Hawkins.
I can find players to do alot of what Scott West did, Dougie Hawkins was like a Western suburbs Jarman.
Hawkins every day and it's not close.
Or if you want a Hawks example, you can choose Terry Wallace or Darren Jarman.
Rockliffe is high end Japanese automotive manufacturing, Martin is off the Autobahn via Porsche.

 

[dajesmac]

Any other players in other positions that could tickle your fancy?

I think for us the focus should be best 22 mids or forwards, or draft picks. So the likelihood of an overlap between a player we want to recruit and a player you are happy to let go is pretty minimal .

What is the overall perception of Kade Stewart? He seems to have had a very solid first year.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Uhhh, no.
That comparison for me is like asking Scott West or Doug Hawkins.
I can find players to do alot of what Scott West did, Dougie Hawkins was like a Western suburbs Jarman.
Hawkins every day and it's not close.
Or if you want a Hawks example, you can choose Terry Wallace or Darren Jarman.
Rockliffe is high end Japanese automotive manufacturing, Martin is off the Autobahn via Porsche.

Correct. Stats vs Stats tells you bugger all about the actual ability of a player. I am sure you could find a decent amount of players who have more compelling stats on paper vs Cyril - but there isn't a hope in hell you'd pick any of them before picking Cyril.

 

[VandoHawk]

I think for us the focus should be best 22 mids or forwards, or draft picks. So the likelihood of an overlap between a player we want to recruit and a player you are happy to let go is pretty minimal .

What is the overall perception of Kade Stewart? He seems to have had a very solid first year.

Would Stratton be of any interest to West Coast? Still best 22 but we have younger players coming through that can play similar roles

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Eagles are about to embark on a rebuild/regeneration. I doubt very much they'll be looking at players 26+.

They'll want picks.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I wonder what sort of difference having the whole post-season to work on trade week will have for the Hawks. Normally, I would imagine GW and his footy mgmt lackeys are busy slaving away in spreadsheets largely by themselves. Now he can get Clarko and the whole coaching staff's full attention for a couple months before the trades happen. More bodies to run around assessing, planning and talking to prospects.

Do you think this will make trade weeks more aggressive (is that even possible after last year?) or maybe calmer and all worked out like a chess master?

Majority of work on trades and list management happens long before the last round of home and away, though.

I doubt it would have made a lick of difference to be honest. Plenty of our players would've been judged and stamped months out from the final bell.

 

[halfback dasher]

It looks like he's had a reasonable year statistically. Is he under contract?

I think the asking price would be our second pick (#30). I'm probably not super keen on that, not because I don't think that's his value but because attribute-wise I don't think he is suitable for us.

As for the Gaff talk, not sure how a Hawthorn deal could get done given the asking price would either be a pick in the top 8 or so, or a best 22 midfielder. I think he stays anyway.

So out of interest when he become a RFA next yr what do you see if he chooses to leave as your best outcome in return ?

 

[seysearles]

I wonder what sort of difference having the whole post-season to work on trade week will have for the Hawks. Normally, I would imagine GW and his footy mgmt lackeys are busy slaving away in spreadsheets largely by themselves. Now he can get Clarko and the whole coaching staff's full attention for a couple months before the trades happen. More bodies to run around assessing, planning and talking to prospects.

Do you think this will make trade weeks more aggressive (is that even possible after last year?) or maybe calmer and all worked out like a chess master?

The last season we missed finals (2009) we brought in Burgoyne Gibson Stratton Suckling Duryea

 

[HODGEYROAD]

lets compare the pair

Dustin Martin over 5 years (113 games)(26 years old)
Disp - 3093(27.4), Disp Eff - 67%, Cont Poss - 10.2pg, Marks - 4.6pg, Clearances - 4pg, Tackles - 3.3pg, Goals - 1pg, Goal Assist - 0.73pg, Clangers - 4.2pg, 1%er's - 1pg

Tom Rockliff over 5 years (92 games)(27 years old)
Disp - 2546(27.7), Disp Eff - 69%, Cont Poss - 11.1pg, Marks - 4.7pg, Clearances - 5.6pg, Tackles - 6.9pg, Goals - 0.58pg, Goal Assist - 0.46pg, Clangers - 3.1pg, 1%er's - 1pg

media hype sure helps inflate value of players amongst the masses of sheeple... but in all seriousness, Martin has had an amazing year this year, in comparison to Rockliffs worst year, i have never based judgement of a player on 1 year alone, mainly because you could be looking at a snapshot of their best or worst rather than a gauge of what they usually and will contribute...

Lets compare all NBA players using box score, who needs to actually watch games.

 

[dajesmac]

Would Stratton be of any interest to West Coast? Still best 22 but we have younger players coming through that can play similar roles

Not particularly. As Abasi said we will be taking a youth focus, particularly midfielders. Defence is one area we are satisfactorily stocked up in.

So out of interest when he become a RFA next yr what do you see if he chooses to leave as your best outcome in return ?

What do you mean sorry? Our best trade outcome this year or are you asking what compensation we would expect?

Given he is contracted we would be pushing hard for close to a top five pick but may accept something in the top eight. Having said that it's against the club's nature to trade a contracted required player (see Mitch Brown in 2013) so I can't see him going this year. If we hold onto him for another year I'd expect Band 1 compensation (AA in 2016, BnF and possibly BnF again this year).

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I could see the Eagles taking Hartung and Pick 32 for Gaff, especially considering the contract that they have supppsedly offered him at 4 years, as they would know that they can't play super hardball on a guy who is 12 months off FA.

That's just me though.

 

[HolyRioli]

I could see the Eagles taking Hartung and Pick 32 for Gaff, especially considering the contract that they have supppsedly offered him at 4 years, as they would know that they can't play super hardball on a guy who is 12 months off FA.

That's just me though.

No chance. They'll get band one compo for him next year. I suspect the Eagles may slide a little next year, so that would equate to pick 12 or less.

So that would be the starting point this year I suspect

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I could see the Eagles taking Hartung and Pick 32 for Gaff, especially considering the contract that they have supppsedly offered him at 4 years, as they would know that they can't play super hardball on a guy who is 12 months off FA.

That's just me though.

Not entirely unreasonable - I concur.