If there was another 9/11 scale attack on the US

[redglare]

But it was the US that started the conflict against the Japanese (oil/trade embargo's) and they screamed bloody murder when they were attacked.

The Nazi's decline had started in 1942, Britain had survived the air war and where slowly on the offensive (North Africa and the Mediterranean).
I admit the entry of the US with their equipment (fire power) and manpower did speed up the defeat but the defeat was inevitable.

As for wanting the US to be 'on my side' no thanks too many innocent people die when the US come in to 'save' people

Murray, that is a decidedly slanted view of history.

Japan fights a war with China and commits unspeakable attrocities
Japan declares allegiance with Germany and Italy
Japan occupies Indochina to secure oil supplies
USA and Britain issue non-military sanctions on Japan
Japan attacks USA at Pearl Harbour.

And you say "But it was the US that started the conflict against the Japanese (oil/trade embargo's)". Give me a break.

The war was far from won when the USA joined it. ALL of Western Europe was occupied for goodness sake! Do you realize how close the Germans were to building nuclear weapons?

As for not having the USA come and save you, choose your poison.

 

[CoggaRules]

As for not having the USA come and save you, choose your poison.

ok so can i ask what the USA is coming to save us from? Like we were doing pretty good for a long time with eveyone around us and now we are doing pretty ******** with everyone around us. Can you suggest why this is so? Just off the top of your head can you think about why we are in the position we are in now? Like did you ever have to go to the cricket and get sniffed by dogs before? naaa, so what has changed between then and now? think long and hard about this one huh?

 

[dan warna]

You could hardly blame Japan's involvement in WW2 on economic sanctions, which were implemented to stem Japan's military expansion in the Pacific, including a brutal and cruel invasion of China and sending troops to Indochina.

Do you also advocate US acting as a "world police force"? Your statement " would the Yanks have been so forthcoming in saving the world when they let the world get to the stage of having to be saved" implies that you are critical of the USA for not intervening earlier.

concur with the first part.

I fully endorse the fact that the US had an embargo on trade with Japan and attempted to starve that nation during its vile criminal activities in Asia.

Its interesting also that Japan was an ally of the Brits in the 1920 and early 1930s and much of its battleship building technology actually came from the brits. The fleet that smashed the russians was built entirely byt the brits.

Japan had to be stopped, its crimes in SE were on par with the Nazi crimes in Europe.

Its interesting that Sukarno snr supported the Japanese as it was perceived that the Japanese were LESS CRUEL that the Dutch. And that was a pretty valid judgement at the time. Dutch rule was brutal to max.

However compared to the French and Brits, the Japanese were often worse (but not always)

As for the world police after WW2 the Americans have pushed a very selfish political agenda for trying to control and influence Central America and South AMerica, including a brutal suppression of the panamanian independance movement and supporting some absolute a$$wipes in South America such as Pinochet and suppressing democracy such as President Allende.

SImilarly the US attempted to preserve the Marcos Dictatorship as well other crims such as the uzbekistani scum, and the northern alliance, the saudi and kuwait 'royals' as well as the shah and the Saddam.

Currently the support a number of undemocratic dictators around the world such as musharraf.

world police? more like selfish self interest to the detriment of millions.

 

[- PC -]

Do you realize how close the Germans were to building nuclear weapons?.

Tell me how close and why the Americans caught and passed them?

 

[otaku]

more like selfish self interest to the detriment of millions.

Kill your enemies, help your friends. The maxim that every gvenrment/corporation/mob in the world follows.

We are creatures of self interest. Why do you expect group of people to act any differently?

 

[dan warna]

Tell me how close and why the Americans caught and passed them?

German and Jewish physicists as well as british jews combined their energy and knowledge on the manhattan project.
There was also information that Jewish and German Scientists sabotaged the German effort.
Finally an allied bombing run destroyed an important German research station during the latter parts of the war.

Given their rocketery ability and accuracy, I would say London would have been dust.

 

[dan warna]

Kill your enemies, help your friends. The maxim that every gvenrment/corporation/mob in the world follows.

We are creatures of self interest. Why do you expect group of people to act any differently?

concur, doesn't mean what we do is right.

 

[otaku]

concur, doesn't mean what we do is right.

Right? Right? According to who?

 

[CoggaRules]

Tell me how close and why the Americans caught and passed them?

and after you tell PC that, then can you explain this scenario please, lets say japan didnt do the dirty on Pearl Harbor what then? will the yanks have waited for the photo finish to be semaphored on how close the germans were?

 

[CoggaRules]

Right? Right? According to who?

naaaa, man you got it all wrong, lol, its not about who is right or wrong any more, its all about who says sorry more for the wrongs that makes everything alright. Now lets see, how many sorries have we heard from Bushy, Johhny and Blairy? Now think about how many sorries you have heard from the other mob. Now think about why one side is forever sorry and why the other isnt.

 

[dan warna]

Right? Right? According to who?

so we should help our friends even when what they are doing is wrong?
even out of the context of the iraq war, if your friend commits a crime should you cover it up?
also many of the more altruistic organisations, what every their original motivation originates in the USA.
also while the USA govt is one of the stingiest wrt non military aid, the people of the USA per capita are one of the most altruistic peoples wrt charitable donations.
so it is possible for people to help people who are not your friends or act out motives not linked to self interest.
And yes I am aware fo theories that argue that donations to charity does return a feel good feeling to the donator thus the altruistic motivation is linked to making the donator feel good and thus not entirely altruistic, but the net effect is giving money/aid/time/resources to those less fortunate without any possibility of a tangible return.

 

[skipper kelly]

Dan. You left out oil.

 

[dan warna]

Dan. You left out oil.

and you ignore the crimes of the US gov.

 

[just maybe]

Dan. You left out oil.

Wow, yet another example of you sniping but yet again contributing nothing to the thread.

 

[skipper kelly]

Wow, yet another example of you sniping but yet again contributing nothing to the thread.

Do I need an intervention order against you?

 

[skipper kelly]

and you ignore the crimes of the US gov.

what crimes are those that I ignore Dan?

 

[dan warna]

what crimes are those that I ignore Dan?

toppling democratically elected governments
supporting governments that boil people alive
torturing people
ignoring the geneva convention
supporting undemocratic nations
using fuel air bombs in situations where civilians have been killed
yada yada yada

 

[medusala]

SImilarly the US attempted to preserve the Marcos Dictatorship as well other crims such as the uzbekistani scum, and the northern alliance, the saudi and kuwait 'royals' as well as the shah and the Saddam.

Currently the support a number of undemocratic dictators around the world such as musharraf.

world police? more like selfish self interest to the detriment of millions.

So you would back the Taleban over the northern alliance, khomeini over the shah, "royals" over the muslim brotherhood types?

So you would totally disengage from Africa given that there is extraordinarily little chance of finding an honest leader without blood on their hands?

Why would anyone want to have a leader who didnt put the interests of their own countrymen ahead of others?

 

[dan warna]

So you would back the Taleban over the northern alliance, khomeini over the shah, "royals" over the muslim brotherhood types?

So you would totally disengage from Africa given that there is extraordinarily little chance of finding an honest leader without blood on their hands?

Why would anyone want to have a leader who didnt put the interests of their own countrymen ahead of others?

the northern alliance are worse than the taliban or at best no different. Khomeini was a reaction to the shah, it swung from one extreme to another. If their wasn't overt Anglo/US support a less severe government might have come into being, and it didn't help that as soon as the mad mullahs took over the US sponsored the iraqis to invade them, and what about promoting REAL democracy in kuwait and saudi?

democracy came to the philipines DESPITE the US, democracy came to Chile DESPITE the US.

how are we engaged positively in Africa outside north africa? We just do what the Americans tell us...

 

[skipper kelly]

toppling democratically elected governments
supporting governments that boil people alive
torturing people
ignoring the geneva convention
supporting undemocratic nations
using fuel air bombs in situations where civilians have been killed
yada yada yada

Good Morning Dan. Hope you have a nice day.

BTW. Are you a Seinfeld fan?

 

[Murray]

Good Morning Dan. Hope you have a nice day.

BTW. Are you a Seinfeld fan?

Why are you Varnstein or Pennypacker?

 

[skipper kelly]

Why are you Varnstein or Pennypacker?

No im the other one.

 

[skipper kelly]

Vandelay

 

[dan warna]

Good Morning Dan. Hope you have a nice day.

BTW. Are you a Seinfeld fan?

sometimes
I usually use etc etc etc being a bit of King and I Yul Brinner fan, but I thought I might show some variety.

 

[just maybe]

sometimes
I usually use etc etc etc being a bit of King and I Yul Brinner fan, but I thought I might show some variety.

Note he avoids your point again.