Expansion India next in AFL expansion plans

[MadMac]

Football codes had 100-150 years to expand from their homelands. Some expanded world-wide, some other only partialy. It's over, done and dusted. There will always be individuals who might be keen on something new and once the novelty factor wears out they'll go back to sports they grew up with. There might bed a number of those who will keep following it but that number will be rather insignificant.
I grew up watching and playing handball. I think it's an awsome sport, very fast paced and high-scoring. It's a 3rd biggest sport in the world behind soccer and basketball [based on significance, number of nations and people playing it]. However, I'm realistic enough to know that it will never take off in Australia or US. Just because I [and lot of other Euro ex-paths here] think it's a good sport doesn't mean the rest of Australian public will share my opinion. The same can be said for anyone promoting AFL anywhere else but Australia.
Just thinking of hurling right now. Watched few games on Setanta and I like it, it's pretty exciting. It seems however that it's only played in Ireland [correct me here if I'm wrong] which is a shame. But hey, majority of people in the world obviously don't share my opinion.

 

[cos789]

Football codes had 100-150 years to expand from their homelands. Some expanded world-wide, some other only partialy.

Historically that's true. Dominating countries overlaid their culture on others.
Domestically the premier codes have re-inforced their position with the advent of Television. However now we are seeing growing support for minor sports due to the increased freedom and exposure of modern technology such as the internet and pay-TV. Sports previously spread by word-of-mouth get a major technological boost as was the classic case of Australian Football in North America in the 90s.
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[rotto]

why would the AFL be bothered looking to india. i mean come on.

if 1% of india population follow afl, results in millions of dollars in tv rights.

 

[MadMac]

Historically that's true. Dominating countries overlaid their culture on others.
Domestically the premier codes have re-inforced their position with the advent of Television. However now we are seeing growing support for minor sports due to the increased freedom and exposure of modern technology such as the internet and pay-TV. Sports previously spread by word-of-mouth get a major technological boost as was the classic case of Australian Football in North America in the 90s.

That's a valid argument, however, don't forget that competitor sports are using that very same technology. It basically comes down to the number of people watching it. Audiences dictate what is shown on TV, if certain show doesn't get the desired figures it will get the chop. We all complain about Friday Night Footy being delayed in Perth but the fact is that more people want "Better Home And Gardens" than game of AFL footy involving interstate clubs [this proabably doesn't apply when Freo or WCE are playing]. AFL in North America is still relative unknown and it will remain that way. I don't want AFL wasting money trying to get new markets when that money would be better spent on grassroots footy here. Yanks failed with their european experiment and it cost them a fortune. From the marketing point of view they didn't do anything wrong. On top of that, they had huge advantage with Hollywood doing half the job promoting the game through movies and sitcoms. All of that wasn't enough to succeed. It went on for some 10 years and they closed the shop. What do you reckon Vlad's chances are?

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA......wait you're serious arent you?

Why not? There's a cashed, English speaking middle class population in the hundreds of millions. They are ardently pro-Western but suspicious of British imperial hangover meaning rugby is out.

Punter is widely recognised and admired there and is dead keen on promoting Noprth in melbourne.

If we can get a small percentage - say 5 percent - of that cahsed up middle class interetsed in Aussie Rules and supporting North in some financial sense, then that would be worth more than all the corrupt cardboard kings in Carlton.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Hey, you're right, **** the Gold Coast, move to Delhi!

 

[Fire]

We're becoming an international embarassment.

Who are 'we', and why?

 

[Redb]

That's a valid argument, however, don't forget that competitor sports are using that very same technology. It basically comes down to the number of people watching it. Audiences dictate what is shown on TV, if certain show doesn't get the desired figures it will get the chop. We all complain about Friday Night Footy being delayed in Perth but the fact is that more people want "Better Home And Gardens" than game of AFL footy involving interstate clubs [this proabably doesn't apply when Freo or WCE are playing]. AFL in North America is still relative unknown and it will remain that way. I don't want AFL wasting money trying to get new markets when that money would be better spent on grassroots footy here. Yanks failed with their european experiment and it cost them a fortune. From the marketing point of view they didn't do anything wrong. On top of that, they had huge advantage with Hollywood doing half the job promoting the game through movies and sitcoms. All of that wasn't enough to succeed. It went on for some 10 years and they closed the shop. What do you reckon Vlad's chances are?

I agree with the basic premise of what you are saying.

However the key to growing a sport is from the grass roots up. The AFL is doing this in parts of South Africa where no footy code is dominant, much like parts of India. The reason handball wont just take off is more about the lack of comps, exposure locally,etc. If you can grow the game through juniors, get local teams, comps playing, its grows the fan base, funds/promotions from HQ further help the cause. Its the hard road, but its the only road.

How hard are some of the footy codes trying to expand? The NFL with all its resources, puts what into Australia? bugger all, thus it reaps what it sows. If the AFL is willing to have a go, you will be surprised. Thankfully they've finally realised a few expo games wont do the trick alone, you've got to back it up with business, Auskick,etc.

We dont need a huge share of that market to make a difference - there is plenty to go around, for soccer and rugby as well. India has cricket ovals, - there are possibilities worth exploring.

How do the Indian cricket teams keep fit?

Redb

 

[Subprime]

That's a valid argument, however, don't forget that competitor sports are using that very same technology. It basically comes down to the number of people watching it. Audiences dictate what is shown on TV, if certain show doesn't get the desired figures it will get the chop. We all complain about Friday Night Footy being delayed in Perth but the fact is that more people want "Better Home And Gardens" than game of AFL footy involving interstate clubs [this proabably doesn't apply when Freo or WCE are playing]. AFL in North America is still relative unknown and it will remain that way. I don't want AFL wasting money trying to get new markets when that money would be better spent on grassroots footy here. Yanks failed with their european experiment and it cost them a fortune. From the marketing point of view they didn't do anything wrong. On top of that, they had huge advantage with Hollywood doing half the job promoting the game through movies and sitcoms. All of that wasn't enough to succeed. It went on for some 10 years and they closed the shop. What do you reckon Vlad's chances are?

I'm not sure that these matches are a waste of money. From the reports I've read the costs of the Dubai game this year was pretty much covered by sponsors. I believe that Fremantle actually picked up a sponsorship in South Africa. For the clubs involved, they are going on a footy trip, a training camp and a bonding exercise.

The AFL is shown on various pay TV networks overseas and therefore it's content on one of the multitude of channels available. Its aiming to be like Hurling was to you, a curiousity that you became a casual viewer of, and the AFL will hope to build from there.

 

[AstroboyUK]

Why? India is full of AFL stadiums, and the rest of Asia has a real, very real, problem of space.

Why do you think Indians would have a hard time adopting the sport, out of curiosity? I see many people of Indian decent at AFL matches. (One even returned my phone for when when I left it at the MCG). Promotionally, its a dream, as the sport was born to keep cricketers fit. Why is Australia so good at cricket?

There is no contact sport already established.

Why do you think they wont like it?

Its nothing to do with having appropriately sized grounds - they definately have those in spades - no its more about;
1. because theyre not really into contact sports (favourite sports in India - Cricket, Hockey, Badmitton)
2. because climate wise, they (or anyone else) is very unlikely to play it there, except perhaps the 4 weeks in the year in north India where it falls below 35degrees (and never in the South)

Having lived there I just dont see it catching on: theres absolutely nothing for them to hook into culturally, participation wise or supporter wise, or affordable to the average indian (Note: even most IPL and ICL games were half empty and 30-50% of tickets given away)

 

[Atomboy]

I'm not sure that these matches are a waste of money. From the reports I've read the costs of the Dubai game this year was pretty much covered by sponsors. I believe that Fremantle actually picked up a sponsorship in South Africa. For the clubs involved, they are going on a footy trip, a training camp and a bonding exercise.

The AFL is shown on various pay TV networks overseas and therefore it's content on one of the multitude of channels available. Its aiming to be like Hurling was to you, a curiousity that you became a casual viewer of, and the AFL will hope to build from there.

Correct, I believe the whole thing was underwritten through private sector sponsorship.

As far as I know the AFL invests NOTHING in these games, it's up to the individual clubs to bear the losses.

If Essendon and the Tigers think they can get some decent sponsorship or revenue streams out of a game in India, good on them.

The Pies have done pretty well out of the Emirates sponsorship, would be a tidy earner if you could get one of the Indian multi-nationals to jump on board.

 

[Subprime]

Correct, I believe the whole thing was underwritten through private sector sponsorship.

As far as I know the AFL invests NOTHING in these games, it's up to the individual clubs to bear the losses.

If Essendon and the Tigers think they can get some decent sponsorship or revenue streams out of a game in India, good on them.

The Pies have done pretty well out of the Emirates sponsorship, would be a tidy earner if you could get one of the Indian multi-nationals to jump on board.

Let's face it if these things don't pay off for all concerned they won't continue. However it seems the clubs involved so far in these ventures are happy. And other clubs want to get involved. If we were talking about a sh!t sandwich that wouldn't be the case.

 

[gostk86]

whats the afls serious plans for this?
do they honestly think it will succeed? or just publicity stunt?

 

[Bodicifer]

I know a former player who went to South Africa as part of the AFL's push and he said he couldn't see it working as their skills with a ball were terrible. I reckon the Indians would be worse!

 

[genghiskhan]

Why not? There's a cashed, English speaking middle class population in the hundreds of millions. They are ardently pro-Western but suspicious of British imperial hangover meaning rugby is out.

Punter is widely recognised and admired there and is dead keen on promoting Noprth in melbourne.

If we can get a small percentage - say 5 percent - of that cahsed up middle class interetsed in Aussie Rules and supporting North in some financial sense, then that would be worth more than all the corrupt cardboard kings in Carlton.

All this talk about getting just 1 per cent of the market reminds me of the all the foreign companies trying to do the same thing in China but blowing billions. There is a good book to read called The China Dream

http://www.amazon.com/China-Dream-Quest-Untapped-Market/dp/0802139752

It has all the stories of Fosters, the Singapore Government, Budweiser etc who have gone into China wanting just one per cent of the market but losing their money. One of the worst is Pepsi, which has already blow $20 billion and is yet to turn a profit.

You have to remember that the bigger the pond, the more difficult it is to gain any kind of impression, and the more huge fish there are wanting to crush you.

 

[Fire]

All this talk about getting just 1 per cent of the market reminds me of the all the foreign companies trying to do the same thing in China but blowing billions. There is a good book to read called The China Dream

http://www.amazon.com/China-Dream-Quest-Untapped-Market/dp/0802139752

It has all the stories of Fosters, the Singapore Government, Budweiser etc who have gone into China wanting just one per cent of the market but losing their money. One of the worst is Pepsi, which has already blow $20 billion and is yet to turn a profit.

You have to remember that the bigger the pond, the more difficult it is to gain any kind of impression, and the more huge fish there are wanting to crush you.

The AFL is spending peanuts, not billions.

International expansion is an afterthought to them. $40k work of finding for junior programs is about as much as most countries can ask for, and its not given to them on a platter. Inf act, the AFL wouldn't be doing anything at all if it went for the tireless efforts of may people across the world, such as Brian Clarke.

 

[Atomboy]

Let's face it if these things don't pay off for all concerned they won't continue. However it seems the clubs involved so far in these ventures are happy. And other clubs want to get involved. If we were talking about a sh!t sandwich that wouldn't be the case.

You'd think that sponsors like the NAB would also be willing to chip in a bit more at sponsor level if their brand is getting a run in India and South Africa.

A fair few multipliers in this for the AFL and the clubs methinks....

 

[genghiskhan]

The AFL is spending peanuts, not billions.

International expansion is an afterthought to them. $40k work of finding for junior programs is about as much as most countries can ask for, and its not given to them on a platter. Inf act, the AFL wouldn't be doing anything at all if it went for the tireless efforts of may people across the world, such as Brian Clarke.

My post was about people thinking that getting just one per cent of a massive market would be easy. Obviously, if getting 1% of the Chinese drink market after investing $ 20 billion proved beyond the capabilities of Pepsi, then the AFL's investment of $40k is not going to be enough to grab 1% of the Indian sports market.

 

[TigerCraig]

You'd think that sponsors like the NAB would also be willing to chip in a bit more at sponsor level if their brand is getting a run in India and South Africa.

A fair few multipliers in this for the AFL and the clubs methinks....

What good is there for NAB in running it's brand in India and South Africa ?

 

[Fire]

My post was about people thinking that getting just one per cent of a massive market would be easy. Obviously, if getting 1% of the Chinese drink market after investing $ 20 billion proved beyond the capabilities of Pepsi, then the AFL's investment of $40k is not going to be enough to grab 1% of the Indian sports market.

I don't see how that's obvious.

By your logic, if Pepsi can't crack the market enough with with $20 billion, then no company anywhere has a hope in hell.

Obviously, this logic is flawed.

It's more about the product, and less about the promotion. If India is lacking a contact sport, then the AFL might have a market gap which it can fill. It doesn't mean it will fill it, perhaps the Indians don't want that hole filled. But I would hardly say a 40k investment which doesn't pay off is pouring money into a black hole. What if it does? it would be huge.

 

[genghiskhan]

I don't see how that's obvious.

By your logic, if Pepsi can't crack the market enough with with $20 billion, then no company anywhere has a hope in hell.

Obviously, this logic is flawed.

It's more about the product, and less about the promotion. If India is lacking a contact sport, then the AFL might have a market gap which it can fill. It doesn't mean it will fill it, perhaps the Indians don't want that hole filled. But I would hardly say a 40k investment which doesn't pay off is pouring money into a black hole. What if it does? it would be huge.

You would have more probability of success putting $40,000 on a $1,000 to one long shot at the track. If it came off, you'd get $40 million.

You have to work on probabilities here. Considering that the British tried long long ago to introduce rugby when they ruled the country, but failed, I'd guess there isn't great demand for a contact sport.

 

[genghiskhan]

What good is there for NAB in running it's brand in India and South Africa ?

Even if the NAB had branches in the countries, what good is it if the locals don't watch and the only people who see the game are 5,000 expats?

 

[Subprime]

Even if the NAB had branches in the countries, what good is it if the locals don't watch and the only people who see the game are 5,000 expats?

That being the case why did Emirates and Toyota cough up to cover the costs of the Dubai NAB cup game this year?

 

[Fire]

You would have more probability of success putting $40,000 on a $1,000 to one long shot at the track. If it came off, you'd get $40 million.

You have to work on probabilities here. Considering that the British tried long long ago to introduce rugby when they ruled the country, but failed, I'd guess there isn't great demand for a contact sport.

Ridiculous.

Never run a business. You are unable to fathom investment and management of risks associated.

 

[genghiskhan]

Ridiculous.

Never run a business. You are unable to fathom investment and management of risks associated.

Tell me what are the odds of success in India with a $40,000 investment? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? 1,000 to 1? I'd say 1,000,000,000 to 1 would be closest to the mark.