Irish crying continues with calls to scrap the series

[cos789]

Community sport as played against other communities ? We had that in Hurling hundreds of years ago. One Village against another and so forth.

Communuity football , formed by communities of people for the sole purpose of developing football . As distinct from institional football devolped by schools as an exercise for young boys or as a side line or physical distraction from the main reason for schooling .As distinct from village challenges that were sporting substitution for war .
Communty football as played against other community groups or an organised and regular basis forming an association or league with a ladder and resulting premier or champion club , with large crowds drawn from the average community , with media interest and financial considerations .

 

[cos789]

There's guys on here wondering which other countries Rules could expand to when they haven't even conquered all of australia yet
.

The overwhelming consensus is that is that the states of QLD and NSW have been the hardest to crack because of the inbuilt prejudues of some of the people in those states . Prejuduces and politics and history that you are not aware of .People who are not closed to new sports generally find Australian Football quite appealing . However there are abundant people who aren't open to new sporting ideas and that's the main problem .

 

[Let_it_long]

The overwhelming consensus is that is that the states of QLD and NSW have been the hardest to crack because of the inbuilt prejudues of some of the people in those states . Prejuduces and politics and history that you are not aware of .People who are not closed to new sports generally find Australian Football quite appealing . However there are abundant people who aren't open to new sporting ideas and that's the main problem .

Totally contradicting your other statement where you said rules rose above politics et al then. It obviously doesn't which is something the AFL should work hard to get around.

 

[cos789]

Totally contradicting your other statement where you said rules rose above politics et al then. It obviously doesn't which is something the AFL should work hard to get around.

Maybe to someone who has no idea of Australian history .
Just because Australian football is more important than politics and relgion doesn't mean it has been affected by them .

Again , you should start reading up on Australian history before posting because you are way out of your depth . The AFL itself is very young , it has inherited a situation and already in a short space of time the AFL has done much to erase the defficiencies you raise .
Don't make the mistake of equating AFL with Australian Football .

 

[Let_it_long]

Maybe to someone who has no idea of Australian history .
Just because Australian football is more important than politics and relgion doesn't mean it has been affected by them .

Again , you should start reading up on Australian history before posting because you are way out of your depth . The AFL itself is very young , it has inherited a situation and already in a short space of time the AFL has done much to erase the defficiencies you raise .
Don't make the mistake of equating AFL with Australian Football .

If you bothered reading my post before throwing your condesending opinions around you'll see that I haven't mistaken them. I clearly stated that rules was embroiled in politics and that it was the AFL's job to get around them as governing body. You post something and and contradict it three posts later, shows you for what you are. An intellectual wannabe and a pompous one at that.

 

[Horsebox]

A definite contradiction I'm afraid Cos789. Jumped out at me when I read it bearing in mind your earlier post about politics etc. Its a bit much to suggest other people are out of their depth on this subject just because you tied yourself in a knot.

 

[clashoftheash]

Communuity football , formed by communities of people for the sole purpose of developing football . As distinct from institional football devolped by schools as an exercise for young boys or as a side line or physical distraction from the main reason for schooling .As distinct from village challenges that were sporting substitution for war .
Communty football as played against other community groups or an organised and regular basis forming an association or league with a ladder and resulting premier or champion club , with large crowds drawn from the average community , with media interest and financial considerations .

Sole purpose of developing football ? Your grasping at straws with that one. Your saying that the only thing on these communities minds was developing the game further ?

Distinct from village challenges which were a substitution for war ? Back in meideval times most of these matches were indeed substitutions for war. But back in ancient times hurling was basically training warriors for battle. So matches were in fact not based on "war" between people but rather developing the skills of the "game" further and for training purposes.

Also, many of the old matches which have being documented by journalists (17th Century and before) were organised and were for pride of place and community, not for "war".

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Something that may be of interest to the Irish posters is that the roots of Aussie Rules are thought to include the Aboriginal game of Marn Grook. This was played across wide parts of Australia using a stuffed possum skin. One of the men who set out the first rules of Australian football is known to have come into contact with the game during his youth and the concept of a "mark" in Aussie Rules appears to relate to the rule in Marn Grook rather than to the term in rugby. The Aboriginal game has been played as a warm up to an AFL match in honour of this link and a film of the same name which celebrates the achievements of Aboriginal footballers has been made.

 

[Let_it_long]

Something that may be of interest to the Irish posters is that the roots of Aussie Rules are thought to include the Aboriginal game of Marn Grook. This was played across wide parts of Australia using a stuffed possum skin. One of the men who set out the first rules of Australian football is known to have come into contact with the game during his youth and the concept of a "mark" in Aussie Rules appears to relate to the rule in Marn Grook rather than to the term in rugby. The Aboriginal game has been played as a warm up to an AFL match in honour of this link and a film of the same name which celebrates the achievements of Aboriginal footballers has been made.

Bloody good footballers they are too generally. Seem to possess an extraordinary sense of balance. Best score I've seen in any sport all year was scored by an aboriginal player in an AFL game. Ball bounced in a group of players about 10m from goal, this guy just shot through the center, jumped, caught the ball and performed a flying scissors kick to score before he hit the ground. Amazing score

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Bloody good footballers they are too generally. Seem to possess an extraordinary sense of balance. Best score I've seen in any sport all year was scored by an aboriginal player in an AFL game. Ball bounced in a group of players about 10m from goal, this guy just shot through the center, jumped, caught the ball and performed a flying scissors kick to score before he hit the ground. Amazing score

That was Daniel Wells was it not?

 

[Let_it_long]

That was Daniel Wells was it not?

Could not tell you. But it was awesome

 

[H Dolphin]

Something that may be of interest to the Irish posters is that the roots of Aussie Rules are thought to include the Aboriginal game of Marn Grook. This was played across wide parts of Australia using a stuffed possum skin. One of the men who set out the first rules of Australian football is known to have come into contact with the game during his youth and the concept of a "mark" in Aussie Rules appears to relate to the rule in Marn Grook rather than to the term in rugby.

Professor Blainey was the first to float that theory and it's been taken up enthusiastically by Martin Flannigan. Neither get beyond Ankle Tap Sheedy's might haves and could haves as sources. I'm skeptical. Blainey hails the Melbourne Grammer-Scotch College game to be the first Australian Rules game but it had more in common with a medieval inter village holy day event than with the game played with complex rules we now know as Australian Rules.

There are pre Wills accounts of football games being played on the goldfields between miners from different parts of the British Isles, especially Ireland. Australian rules, Gaelic rules, Soccer and Rugby all emerged around the same time. Just why and how rules developed as they did is speculative only. Australian Rules has elements of the play of Rugby and Gaelic games. Perhaps the blokes who influenced the standardisation of rules in those games were the same sorts of blokes who influenced the rules in the emerging colony.

 

[cos789]

. I clearly stated that rules was embroiled in politics and that it was the AFL's job to get around them as governing body.

Just so there is no mistake , what politics exactly are we talking about , that it's the AFL job to "get around" . I want to be clear on this one .

 

[Bloodz]

Does this thread never die? why are we on politics now?

Johnson = thug.... end of story... move along, nothing to see here

 

[cos789]

Listen Clashoftheash , lighten up , you asked me for my definition of modern football . I gave one . If you can't tell the difference between ragged peasants running around once a year on some pagan ritual and athelitic professional footballers presenting entertainment in a business infrastructure then I don't want to know about it .

But I would like to know .
What's the rough chronology of Irish game .
I hear you had tackles , behind posts and an oval ball .
How about a quick history lesson .
When did the GAA form (and run football)
When did counties play each other .
When did the first formal competition start .

 

[Horsebox]

Listen Clashoftheash , lighten up , you asked me for my definition of modern football . I gave one . If you can't tell the difference between ragged peasants running around once a year on some pagan ritual and athelitic professional footballers presenting entertainment in a business infrastructure then I don't want to know about it .


Is this a veiled reference to this years IR?

 

[The Gunn]

There are pre Wills accounts of football games being played on the goldfields between miners from different parts of the British Isles, especially Ireland. Australian rules, Gaelic rules, Soccer and Rugby all emerged around the same time. Just why and how rules developed as they did is speculative only. Australian Rules has elements of the play of Rugby and Gaelic games. Perhaps the blokes who influenced the standardisation of rules in those games were the same sorts of blokes who influenced the rules in the emerging colony.

What is your source for these "pre Wills accounts"??

There is no doubt the why and how of rules development is speculative but one thing is not in doubt. Aussie Rules is the first of the football games to be codified by a set of written rules. Further, it can easily and fairly be put the other way. Rugby and Gaelic have elements of Aussie Rules. There is NO evidence that the Irish had any influence in the Aussie game but I think the case can fairly be made that miners returning to Ireland from the goldfields brought back elements of the emerging Aussie game. Further, Wills had an influence on the codification of Rugby after he returned to the UK from Australia.

IF anyone believes the Irish game or any of the rugby games were first let THEM prove it. They will of course need more than some medieval account of villages kicking a sheeps head around or playing keepings off. Let them produce evidence of a 'rule book' for a game. WE had the first rule book for a codified game.

 

[Horsebox]

What is your source for these "pre Wills accounts"??

There is no doubt the why and how of rules development is speculative but one thing is not in doubt. Aussie Rules is the first of the football games to be codified by a set of written rules. Further, it can easily and fairly be put the other way. Rugby and Gaelic have elements of Aussie Rules. There is NO evidence that the Irish had any influence in the Aussie game but I think the case can fairly be made that miners returning to Ireland from the goldfields brought back elements of the emerging Aussie game. Further, Wills had an influence on the codification of Rugby after he returned to the UK from Australia.

Yeah, they were coming home in their droves. Ridiculous point.

 

[cos789]

IF anyone believes the Irish game or any of the rugby games were first let THEM prove it.

To me , I'm not interested in who was first in technical origin .
That depends really on what criteria you are using .
I mount the argument that Australian Football , due to the wealth of Australia at the time , was first to develope football clubs that resemble today's modern football clubs in most ways . One element of that is the spectator aspect and right from the start the crowds have been sizable .

 

[clashoftheash]

But I would like to know .
What's the rough chronology of Irish game .
I hear you had tackles , behind posts and an oval ball .
How about a quick history lesson .
When did the GAA form (and run football)
When did counties play each other .
When did the first formal competition start .

rough Chronology of Irish Games ? The earliest written account of hurling dates the game to at least 3000 years ago. Back then and before, tt was both a game and a method for training warriors for battle.

¨Football¨ was played for hundreds of years but i don´t think that the game back then had anything close to a common set of rules. It was standardised by the GAA when it was formed but a lot of the influence for the rules came from Rugby and Soccer. Thats not to say that the gameplay itself changed as a hybrid of these games, but the rules did. (Free kicks and so forth, standard playing field etc etc)

I´m not sure about tackles but we definately had the behind posts (Same posts and goal area as IR i´d imagine) and i´m sure i read we had the mark too, or something very similiar to the mark.

We didn´t have an ¨oval¨ ball in the way you think. Back then it was very very hard to make a round ball so it ended up being oval-ish. This is probably how the oval ball was invented but thats my opinion, i haven´t read that anywhere.

The GAA was formed in the late 1800´s (Use google) to standardise and run Hurling and Gaelic Football.

When did the counties play eachother ? I´m not sure i understand that one. Teams had being playing eachother for hundreds of years, the ¨champions¨ of a county would represent that county so when a ¨club¨ won the county championship they would represent that county.

First formal ? Depends on your definition of formal doesn´t it ? Do you mean under the GAA ?

 

[clashoftheash]

To me , I'm not interested in who was first in technical origin .
That depends really on what criteria you are using .
I mount the argument that Australian Football , due to the wealth of Australia at the time , was first to develope football clubs that resemble today's modern football clubs in most ways . One element of that is the spectator aspect and right from the start the crowds have been sizable .

The romans were the first to have stadiums etc huge wealth attached to it, huge crowds ..

 

[Horsebox]

The romans were the first to have stadiums etc huge wealth attached to it, huge crowds ..

The Christians hadn't much of a team back then. Got hammered every week.

 

[Let_it_long]

The Christians hadn't much of a team back then. Got hammered every week.

Ya they only came into their own when they gave up sport and started giging. The Lions were Premiers 20 years in a row back then.

 

[Let_it_long]

I was at the game where Maximus Johnson beheaded Philipus Jordanus. Quare rough game that one. Talk of the Forum for weeks afterward.

 

[Bleed Red Cheer]

Being thrown to the lions isn't even in the same class as hurling.