Is Ballantyne our most important player?

[clivenator26]

Let's see you take what he was copping off the ball and see how long you last. Besides, whatever GWS **** he hit went down like a sack of crap and made it look a lot worse than it was. Fair play to Ballas for going so long before retaliating because I know I would have swung a lot earlier.

Balaz is usually the one dishing that out, you don't think Ablett or Pendles deals with worse? Or why doesn't he do a Harvey and bring it to the attention of the umpires so it is in their head.

I didn't see Steven Motlop take a swing at Tom Bugg this week. Tom Bugg is a niggler, a very good one but tell me how many others have got suspended for whacking him.

People aren't saying we would've won with Ballaz out there but the fact he got suspended is the issue again. He wont change though, we have to take the good wit hthe bad but soon enough the time may come that the bad outweighs the good.

 

[strobe00]

I didn't see Steven Motlop take a swing at Tom Bugg this week. Tom Bugg is a niggler, a very good one but tell me how many others have got suspended for whacking him.

How many times did Bugg hit Motlop in the head? That's not being a niggler. That's being a dirty pr!ck.

I'd be surprised if Motlop reacted mildly and meekly to being hit like that. I doubt he was at all, as Bugg knew he could get away with it on Balla and he wouldn't get called for it. I'd be very surprised if he tried that type of sh*t on cleanskins like Motlop and co.

 

[Righteo]

Balaz is usually the one dishing that out, you don't think Ablett or Pendles deals with worse? Or why doesn't he do a Harvey and bring it to the attention of the umpires so it is in their head.

I didn't see Steven Motlop take a swing at Tom Bugg this week. Tom Bugg is a niggler, a very good one but tell me how many others have got suspended for whacking him.

People aren't saying we would've won with Ballaz out there but the fact he got suspended is the issue again. He wont change though, we have to take the good wit hthe bad but soon enough the time may come that the bad outweighs the good.

These days there's actually a lot less niggle in his game and I think he definitely cops more than "he dishes out". It's true that certain players with widespread "villain" status (Crowley is the same and Jeff Farmer was the same) don't get looked after in any situation but I'll concede this could just be bias creeping in. Ballas doesn't bury his knees/elbows into player's ribs and head when he tackles/makes a contest though like every defender on him has done for years now.

 

[mightydockers]

I'd say the loss can be attributed to sandilands not playing... we did not get first hands to the ball at all. the ball didn't even reach our forward line for ballaz to work his magic

 

[peppy la pew]

I'm not sure Balla's would have won the game against the saints, not the way the group as a collective played, but he most certainly was the difference against Norf.
If you get the chance watch that game again, the amount of times the ball went to ground inside their 50 and no seagull in sight.
I have bemoaned that game since the final whistle, and truly believe it will cost us a top 2 finish.

 

[Jimbos1]

overall he would easily be in the top 10, possibly top 6.

Fyfe, Pav, Mundy, Sandilands and Hill would be Freos top 5 important players in my opinion. Ballas, McPharlin, Johnson and Barlow and Walters would make up the top 10.

2014 I wouldn't place Pavlich in our top 5. Top 10 yea but not top 5.

 

[strobe00]

2014 I wouldn't place Pavlich in our top 5. Top 10 yea but not top 5.

I hope you're joking. Think about what you're saying. He is the ONLY effective genuine key forward that we have. The only one.

Down back we have three top kpds and a very handy back up. We have three rucks capable of playing first ruck.

And up forward we have pav. And then daylight.

Gumby and kep appear crocked. Apeness is a first year player. Tabs has major issues with physicality and competitiveness that might one day be remedied. Mayne is a third tall. Clarke is not a kpf. Griff certainly isn't.

Sorry jimbo but you better be trolling.

 

[PapaJ]

I hope you're joking. Think about what you're saying. He is the ONLY effective genuine key forward that we have. The only one.

Down back we have three top kpds and a very handy back up. We have three rucks capable of playing first ruck.

And up forward we have pav. And then daylight.

Gumby and kep appear crocked. Apeness is a first year player. Tabs has major issues with physicality and competitiveness that might one day be remedied. Mayne is a third tall. Clarke is not a kpf. Griff certainly isn't.

Sorry jimbo but you better be trolling.

Though I completely agree with the Pav part, and the tall defenders to an extent too, and not meaning to sound too picky, I think you're overstating our ruck department at the moment at least.

It depends on a few things including who we're playing, but if Sandi doesn't play, he's the one we miss the most - I think we missed him more than Balla in the Saints game for example. Clarke is not in great form - he's doing OK, but he's not playing that well, in the ruck or fwd. Griff is miles away from AFL capable it seems. Hannath can pitch in if needed, but he's no where near the level required to be a finals level ruckman. We have a bit of depth there on paper, but at the moment, Sandi is so far ahead of the others in current form, that he's probably the most important player.

 

[strobe00]

Though I completely agree with the Pav part, and the tall defenders to an extent too, and not meaning to sound too picky, I think you're overstating our ruck department at the moment at least.

It depends on a few things including who we're playing, but if Sandi doesn't play, he's the one we miss the most - I think we missed him more than Balla in the Saints game for example. Clarke is not in great form - he's doing OK, but he's not playing that well, in the ruck or fwd. Griff is miles away from AFL capable it seems. Hannath can pitch in if needed, but he's no where near the level required to be a finals level ruckman. We have a bit of depth there on paper, but at the moment, Sandi is so far ahead of the others in current form, that he's probably the most important player.

I think sandi is too. I made that point earlier in this thread.

My issue was with jimbo's comment that pav wasn't in our top 5 most important players.

Mentioning the talls in defence and the ruck was to make it clear how little depth we have for kpf's. Pav is definitely top 5.

 

[Unique Name]

It's unfortunate, when Pav gets tripled teamed for an entire game and gets us sweet F all its easy to say we can do without him.

But in that case he's drawing 2-3 defenders in his direction creating room for our small/med forwards.

If we had a dangerous 2nd KPF I think Pav's game would have gone to another level. But Tabs and Apeman aren't, so Pav has to deal with being surrounded all the time.

To the original post, Ballas is an important player but not the most important. It's because we have no Walters that we need him so badly.

I think to answer that question we need to ask, "If any player could play the best game of their life against the Hawks in a few rounds time who would you want it to be?"

It has to be a player that directly affects the state of play. I don't think it can be a forward because if the mids aren't delivering the ball well it doesn't matter if Pav or Mayne kick with 100% accuracy. It can't be a lock down defender either because they only effect the player they are on.

I would say it could be either our loose man in defense, when Johnson has a blinder of a game our whole defense looks rock solid.

It could be our ruckman, when Sandi's hit outs to advantage ramp up our whole midfield looks dangerous. Then when you swing him forwards and backwards and he takes a few pack marks he looks dangerous.

It could be one of our mids. When Fyfe or Mundy have a great game they kick goals, get clearances, deliver cleanly to the forwards, help out the defenders. But if they never get first use of the ball it makes it much more difficult for them to influence the direct of play.

As Ross the Boss always says "It's a simple game, keep the ball and if you don't have the ball, get the ball" or something to that effect.

So after all that I'd say Sandilands. If he gives us first use of the ball the game is played on our terms. Then Johnson, he gets the ball back for us so we can play the game on our terms. Then Fyfe, Once we have the ball he can create the magic.

 

[clogged]

I hope you're joking. Think about what you're saying. He is the ONLY effective genuine key forward that we have. The only one.

Down back we have three top kpds and a very handy back up. We have three rucks capable of playing first ruck.

And up forward we have pav. And then daylight.

Gumby and kep appear crocked. Apeness is a first year player. Tabs has major issues with physicality and competitiveness that might one day be remedied. Mayne is a third tall. Clarke is not a kpf. Griff certainly isn't.

Sorry jimbo but you better be trolling.

That doesn't mean he's top five at the club. He's important structurally sure, but if he wasn't available, Kepler or similar would be there.

The side won a heap of games last year while he missed 12 weeks. It would cope again without him, yet not reach any great heights.

 

[strobe00]

The side won a heap of games last year while he missed 12 weeks. It would cope again without him, yet not reach any great heights.

The last phrase is the kicker for me. No pav means no chance of a premiership... We'd be very lucky to reach the gf.

 

[Kram]

Maybe not in the best 5 players now but structurally he's obviously top 5, against top opposition it would be very difficult to win without Pavlich.

 

[clogged]

The last phrase is the kicker for me. No pav means no chance of a premiership... We'd be very lucky to reach the gf.

I think this is a side that needs its very best available to do anything worthwhile.

Last year's final series all of the most structurally important players were available as well as the top ten players otherwise (mids and creative forwards).

When Lyon says Freo is a blue collar side he is spot on. It's what gets me when people assert that guys like Ibbotson and De Boer are locks for best 22. Hawks and Swans can swap in relative nobodies doing the same job in 'plug and play' kind of roles (Cheney, Litherland, Laidler) and get it done.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Defs top 5

Would have it as:

Sandilands
Ballantyne
Fyfe
Hill
Johnson

When we are missed 2 or 3 of those guys, we struggle big time, also 6 day breaks. No more 6 day breaks please AFL

 

[strobe00]

I think this is a side that needs its very best available to do anything worthwhile.

Last year's final series all of the most structurally important players were available as well as the top ten players otherwise (mids and creative forwards).

When Lyon says Freo is a blue collar side he is spot on. It's what gets me when people assert that guys like Ibbotson and De Boer are locks for best 22. Hawks and Swans can swap in relative nobodies doing the same job in 'plug and play' kind of roles (Cheney, Litherland, Laidler) and get it done.

Agree.

and as for the last para... it's further proof that Clarkson really is a very good coach. Probably the most underrated in the afl.

Many, including me, have previously put the hawks success down to talent. But they keep finding ways to win despite missing some of their most important players. Clarkson is a smart bloke.

Besides that... the close alignment between box hill and the hawks... versus the current peel setup... makes it a lot easier to plug and play. Further reason we need to tweak the peel alignment, which is a bit of a captain obvious comment, but valid all the same.

 

[bruzaar62]

Defs top 5

Would have it as:

Sandilands
Ballantyne
Fyfe
Hill
Johnson

When we are missed 2 or 3 of those guys, we struggle big time, also 6 day breaks. No more 6 day breaks please AFL

Its hard to fathom why the Saints game was'nt played on the following day,considering our next fixture wasnt for 10 days,pretty lousy scheduling from the AFL
and yes Ballas,Hill and Sandilands are lock for top 5 and most teams would struggle losing that quality,pretty sure we will see the real Freo this Thursday

 

[Jimbos1]

I hope you're joking. Think about what you're saying. He is the ONLY effective genuine key forward that we have. The only one.

Down back we have three top kpds and a very handy back up. We have three rucks capable of playing first ruck.

And up forward we have pav. And then daylight.

Gumby and kep appear crocked. Apeness is a first year player. Tabs has major issues with physicality and competitiveness that might one day be remedied. Mayne is a third tall. Clarke is not a kpf. Griff certainly isn't.

Sorry jimbo but you better be trolling.

Saying Pavlich isn't the top 5 at our club is by no stretch trolling. We are talking about now, 2014. Teams find ways to kick goals. I'll reitorate, top 10 NOT top 5.

 

[strobe00]

Saying Pavlich isn't the top 5 at our club is by no stretch trolling. We are talking about now, 2014. Teams find ways to kick goals. I'll reitorate, top 10 NOT top 5.

Good luck manufacturing a decent score against a top team in pav's absence. Agree to disagree.

Most of the games we won without pav last year were against average opposition. We'd be up shit creek without him against any of the top 5 teams.

 

[freoextra]

The tribunal continues to be inconsistent. If Ballas had thrown an elbow into Vickory's guts like Cox did I guarantee at least 125 points.

 

[jusjoshin]

The tribunal continues to be inconsistent. If Ballas had thrown an elbow into Vickory's guts like Cox did I guarantee at least 125 points.

If Ballas had thrown that elbow, he's have 400+ points and Vickery would get off with a reprimand for retaliating.

 

[freoextra]

If Ballas had thrown that elbow, he's have 400+ points and Vickery would get off with a reprimand for retaliating.

It seems that way on occasion. Cox's elbow was thrown with real intent and was noticed by at least one other Richmond player who immediately appealed for a free kick and was at least part of the reason that Vickory lost the plot (major over reaction of course).

Yet if Ballas makes any type of contact no matter the force it appears to collect points and don't remind me about Judd on Pavlich being insufficient force.

I don't want to see any player reported for minor issues, the review system should stick to major offences and behind the ball matters, but it really irks me that the tribunal has allowed itself to be so influenced by the players name or reputation.

 

[strobe00]

Saying Pavlich isn't the top 5 at our club is by no stretch trolling. We are talking about now, 2014. Teams find ways to kick goals. I'll reitorate, top 10 NOT top 5.

So what do you reckon about tonight's performance.

Is Pav still not top 5 most important?

 

[clogged]

So what do you reckon about tonight's performance.

Is Pav still not top 5 most important?

Not sure what you can infer about Pav's importance from tonight's game.

 

[strobe00]

Not sure what you can infer about Pav's importance from tonight's game.

I'd say our side of the score sheet had something to do with his absence from about half time.

I'm sure we were really effective forward of centre...

with NO KPF.

Against Carlton.

Seems pretty friggin' clear to me.