Play Nice Is it time to replace Woodside as sponsor?

[myfreodom]

If we go down this path do people realise nearly everything will be cancelled eventually.

Is anyone on here calling for Hancock to be "cancelled"? I think the netball thing is far more about defending Donnell Wallam. Blaming her for Hancock's decision to pull funding seems pretty ridiculous. I think her request was more than reasonable. If a partnership can't endure that then it isn't a partnership at all - it's a sponsor expecting to be able to buy high profile servants.

The whole concept of "cancel culture" is bs imo. Market forces have and will continue to determine how organisation's brand themselves. If consumers care enough about an issue then brands will distance themselves from those issues. Which is why we don't see the tobacco industry sponsoring sport anymore. It took a long time for the negativity on tobacco to out balance tobacco's supporters though. And the same will happen with contemporary issues over the coming years. Not everyone against tobacco was/is some extreme left looney, just like the shit tonne of people who are for indigenous rights, environmental protection and so on. Really its the people in the middle who move the needle sufficiently enough.

I think a lot of people too quickly have a cry about any criticism they receive and try and label it as "cancel culture" when it is just earned criticism. So often it is notorious shock jocks who make a living of just making up shit to criticise people about who seem the first to have a big sook about how much of a victim they are.

 

[Square Peg]

Without remembering the details, I'd hazard a guess it wasn't market forces that made tobacco sponsorship disappear, legislation banned it

 

[myfreodom]

Without remembering the details, I'd hazard a guess it wasn't market forces that made tobacco sponsorship disappear, legislation banned it

Was the legislation popular at the time?

 

[myfreodom]

Don't listen to the hyperbole, listen to the dudes that play the game.

Carmen Lawrence can get in the bin

Any other greenhouse gases associated with gas?

 

[muckypup]

The whole concept of "cancel culture" is bs imo. Market forces have and will continue to determine how organisation's brand themselves. If consumers care enough about an issue then brands will distance themselves from those issues. Which is why we don't see the tobacco industry sponsoring sport anymore. It took a long time for the negativity on tobacco to out balance tobacco's supporters though. And the same will happen with contemporary issues over the coming years. Not everyone against tobacco was/is some extreme left looney, just like the s**t tonne of people who are for indigenous rights, environmental protection and so on. Really its the people in the middle who move the needle sufficiently enough.

I think a lot of people too quickly have a cry about any criticism they receive and try and label it as "cancel culture" when it is just earned criticism. So often it is notorious shock jocks who make a living of just making up s**t to criticise people about who seem the first to have a big sook about how much of a victim they are.

So the idea is simply that Woodside distance itself from oil and gas?

 

[myfreodom]

So the idea is simply that Woodside distance itself from oil and gas?

Thank you for your valuable contribution to the conversation.

 

[muckypup]

Thank you for your valuable contribution to the conversation.

Did I get it wrong? "Tobacco is like oil and gas and if Freo don't accept sponsorship it maybe people will stop using it in public"

Is that it?

 

[Square Peg]

Was the legislation popular at the time?

I don't know and I don't care, by definition government stepping in to ban something isn't market forces

 

[myfreodom]

I don't know and I don't care, by definition government stepping in to ban something isn't market forces

You are aware the two things generally happen together?

You don't think climate-based legislation will follow when market forces eventually push fossil fuels to the outer?

 

[myfreodom]

Did I get it wrong? "Tobacco is like oil and gas and if Freo don't accept sponsorship it maybe people will stop using it in public"

Is that it?

You said Woodside in your last post? Now you are saying Freo in this one. When you work out what question you are asking let me know

 

[Square Peg]

You are aware the two things generally happen together?

I'm aware of the futility of discussing further when you don't seem to have any concept of what market forces means, or at least your concept is totally different to mine

 

[myfreodom]

I'm aware of the futility of discussing further when you don't seem to have any concept of what market forces means, or at least your concept is totally different to mine

Would you prefer supply and demand instead? It really isn't that hard. If there is demand then supply will match it. Demand is impacted by how people feel about an issue. That's it. That concept applies to the financials of any business but it also applies to how a business or organisation brands itself. If my customers are demanding me to care about the environment then I adjust my branding to match. There are a million buzz phrases I could have used instead.

Like I said cancel culture doesn't exist. RWNJs continue with their shows on Fox because there is enough demand. They haven't been cancelled at all. If that demand eventually dries up then they die off just like anything else.

 

[anchor man]

Without remembering the details, I'd hazard a guess it wasn't market forces that made tobacco sponsorship disappear, legislation banned it

As they should with betting companies.

 

[Kram]

lol at comparing vices like smoking or gambling that add nothing positive and lots of pain to society v resources are still 100% essential for the present day world to keep functioning until we find a replacement.

Gambling advertising in the AFL simply has to go, the level of saturation we have got to is ridiculous.

 

[anchor man]

lol at comparing vices like smoking or gambling that add nothing positive and lots of pain to society v resources are still 100% essential for the present day world to keep functioning until we find a replacement.

Gambling advertising in the AFL simply has to go, the level of saturation we have got to is ridiculous.

.
And not just AFL.

 

[myfreodom]

Gambling advertising in the AFL simply has to go, the level of saturation we have got to is ridiculous.

100%

 

[myfreodom]

resources are still 100% essential for the present day world to keep functioning until we find a replacement.

Exactly, until we find a replacement. Companies aren't going to go out and find a replacement if there is no benefit in them doing so nor disadvantage if they don't. That's the whole ****ing point.

 

[arsesmart]

Nope, I think most people aren't engaged in the discussion at all aside from public relations campaigns from influential people using the media to tell them how to think on the issue.

Because it serves the purpose of the people pushing this that way, they don't want them knowing too much.

That's why it's not addressed that this group is on a sore loser tour, after spending a lot of money in court to block Woodside, and using the people and Fremantle to try and give Woodside a black eye.

If people were taught more critical thinking in high school teaching would be a much harder profession, having to justify your authoritarian positions to teenagers with nothing to lose and hours of prepared arguments would be a nightmare - but people would see things like this for exactly what they are.

Your emotions are being used, just like Fremantle FC is being used, to push an agenda against Woodside from this group who lost in court.

Maybe it's because football is very male dominated that you don't see the social status attacks for what they are, because we learn that in year 3 of primary school. We turn into social status climbing monsters and the boys have no idea. Our Kung(T) Fu is strong and we can spot it a mile off.

As with all politics the game is about using you to achieve their goals. You are the means to the ends. Do not engage.

"Critical thinking skills" lol

What do your critical thinking skills tell you about trying to make it all about the messenger rather than the message? Or how about those critical thinking skills might evaluate attempts to dismiss legitimate concerns, not by addressing those concerns, but characterising them as feeble-minded, woke or cancel culture?

The lobbying of the club via open letter is perfectly fine and a legitimate strategy. The club is a public concern. You don't ask you don't get.

It's also a legitimate process for the club to hear a wide range of voices and for the conversation to be had. It's best served by making careful decisions about who it closely associates with as a major sponsor.

It's also very rational, based on the strength of overwhelming scientific evidence and current knowledge, to say fossil fuels days as a major part of our energy supply are numbered and major changes are needed sooner rather than later.

 

[arsesmart]

Don't listen to the hyperbole, listen to the dudes that play the game.

Carmen Lawrence can get in the bin

A kick in the shin is at the very least 20% better than a kick in the balls... I'd still prefer not to have a kick in the shin.

 

[BanjoRules]

Reading the thread it seems to diverged into the environmental question and the Lang Hancock question.

No one is defending Lang Hancock's comments. They can be seen for what they are which is disgraceful. I'm not downplaying or disregarding that at all. The hurt is real. The man is dead though. So what do we do with those comments in 2022?

Is someone who is clueless wearing a Che Guevarra shirt responsible for his racist and homophobic comments? What about when he and Fidel Castro executed political opponents? Where does it end?

Are all Irish responsible for sectarian violence and the resulting deaths on either side? The children killed in bombings?

Anyone with Mongol/Chinese/Eurasian or Mediterranean DNA responsible for the respective Empires that ruled with force and slavery? I am responsible for Roman and Byzantian aggression? The Crusades?

One player is not bigger than the whole National body (and I assume we are all still equal). I like many others on here I suspect are involved with youth sport. That funding is vital (although questionable how much actually trickles down) for the leagues around the nation.

If we go down this path do people realise nearly everything will be cancelled eventually.

Do they sell Volkwagen's in Israel and do Israeli's drive them?

Some people pretend that cancel culture is not a thing. The epidemic of self censorship rooted in fear of reprisal indicates otherwise. If you don't get on board with the narrative set down by the vocal minority your job will quite possibly be on the line.

So stay quiet, keep your head down and don't rock the boat as they go about make the changes they deem necessary for us all.

Probably best that I add the recent words of Steven Pinker on this topic.

His bio is way too long to post on here however here is part of it :

He is an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, a Humanist of the Year, a recipient of nine honorary doctorates, and one of Foreign Policy’s “World’s Top 100 Public Intellectuals” and Time’s “100 Most Influential People in the World Today.”

Cancel culture is absolutely real.

There are organisations that keep lists of people who have lost their jobs, or have been punished or censored.

And it’s a growing list.

It’s not simply that the feelings are hurt of some powerful people.

Quite the contrary, the real victims of cancel culture are the powerless.

The independent journalists, the journalists who have been fired from their positions at magazines and newspapers.

The graduate students and post docs and lecturers at universities, the employees who have been fired often for trivial breeches of decorum.

So there are real people who have suffered, and moreover, the fact that they have been punished means that there is a regime of intimidation, that puts other people on notice, that if they voice an unpopular opinion their job could be on the line.

 

[Taylor]

"Critical thinking skills" lol

What do your critical thinking skills tell you about trying to make it all about the messenger rather than the message? Or how about those critical thinking skills might evaluate attempts to dismiss legitimate concerns, not by addressing those concerns, but characterising them as feeble-minded, woke or cancel culture?

The lobbying of the club via open letter is perfectly fine and a legitimate strategy. The club is a public concern. You don't ask you don't get.

It's also a legitimate process for the club to hear a wide range of voices and for the conversation to be had. It's best served by making careful decisions about who it closely associates with as a major sponsor.

It's also very rational, based on the strength of overwhelming scientific evidence and current knowledge, to say fossil fuels days as a major part of our energy supply are numbered and major changes are needed sooner rather than later.

And after all the effort put in to fight in the court and then drag Woodside through the court of public opinion, trying to have Fremantle pay the price of their desire to have WDS removed from public support programs.

They could have brought a new sponsor to Freo and swapped them. Replaced the WDS with an offer they couldn't turn down.

But it's how activism works. Always appealing to another power to achieve their goals.

No solution. All muck spreading.

 

[CapitalA]

Don't listen to the hyperbole, listen to the dudes that play the game.

Carmen Lawrence can get in the bin

I believe the extraction of the gas produces a lot more green house gasses than the extraction of coal too but people tend to cut that bit out.

 

[arsesmart]

And after all the effort put in to fight in the court and then drag Woodside through the court of public opinion, trying to have Fremantle pay the price of their desire to have WDS removed from public support programs.

They could have brought a new sponsor to Freo and swapped them. Replaced the WDS with an offer they couldn't turn down.

But it's how activism works. Always appealing to another power to achieve their goals.

No solution. All muck spreading.

So...protest not a valid thing for you then?

 

[Taylor]

So...protest not a valid thing for you then?

If you have the contacts and the means you should offer an alternative solution and not just complain, certainly not seeking to leverage the public to get social status damage revenge on your enemy.

You think someone with connections like them couldn't have arranged a sponsorship cooperative solution to have an environmental message on the Dockers for years to come?

Of course they could.

 

[sherrif]

Is anyone on here calling for Hancock to be "cancelled"? I think the netball thing is far more about defending Donnell Wallam. Blaming her for Hancock's decision to pull funding seems pretty ridiculous. I think her request was more than reasonable. If a partnership can't endure that then it isn't a partnership at all - it's a sponsor expecting to be able to buy high profile servants.

The whole concept of "cancel culture" is bs imo. Market forces have and will continue to determine how organisation's brand themselves. If consumers care enough about an issue then brands will distance themselves from those issues. Which is why we don't see the tobacco industry sponsoring sport anymore. It took a long time for the negativity on tobacco to out balance tobacco's supporters though. And the same will happen with contemporary issues over the coming years. Not everyone against tobacco was/is some extreme left looney, just like the s**t tonne of people who are for indigenous rights, environmental protection and so on. Really its the people in the middle who move the needle sufficiently enough.

I think a lot of people too quickly have a cry about any criticism they receive and try and label it as "cancel culture" when it is just earned criticism. So often it is notorious shock jocks who make a living of just making up s**t to criticise people about who seem the first to have a big sook about how much of a victim they are.

How funny. Yeah it's shock jocks that are making stuff up. Ive worked with refugees and taught with a ton of indigenous educators who all say the same thing. Cancel culture is 100% nothing more than a bunch of white caucasians telling people what they can and can't say and nothing to do with calling out racism, bigotry or anything the self righteous supporters claim it is about. Just like this call to cancel a sponsor has nothing to do with improving the environment. If Australia stopped selling gas or fossil fuels currently world emissions would go up as all over the world brown coal power plants are being put back online as there is such an energy shortage.