Kreuzer has probably been more consistent but at his best Naitanui has demonstrated the ability to influence games in a way that Kreuzer does not. Thats to be expected since Kreuzer has played 52 games to Nat's 19 and is a year older.
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Is Nic Naitanui ridiculously overrated?
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Kreuzer has probably been more consistent but at his best Naitanui has demonstrated the ability to influence games in a way that Kreuzer does not. Thats to be expected since Kreuzer has played 52 games to Nat's 19 and is a year older.
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
Is Naitanui overrated based on current form?
Yes.
Is Naitanui overrated based on his potential?
No.
Most Eagles fan will agree that the media hype is OTT and facepalms result everytime commentators carry on.
However some people have very, very short term memories.
His games against Essendon (pre-season and H&A) and PA had him BOG (Essendon games) and close to BOG (PA game) and he also had a pretty good game against Hawthorn.
Earlier this season the head coaches.. you'd assume they might know a thing or two (well some of them anyway
).. voted Naitanui most likely out of the young players to be the best in the competition in the future.
People forget Naitanui is still a somewhat long term project, he has unfair expectations due to the fact that he has shown glimpses of what he can do. I don't think he has had any really bad games this year.. however his average games look worse because of what people now expect from him
Very happy to have Nic at the Eagles.
Yes.
Is Naitanui overrated based on his potential?
No.
Most Eagles fan will agree that the media hype is OTT and facepalms result everytime commentators carry on.
However some people have very, very short term memories.
His games against Essendon (pre-season and H&A) and PA had him BOG (Essendon games) and close to BOG (PA game) and he also had a pretty good game against Hawthorn.
Earlier this season the head coaches.. you'd assume they might know a thing or two (well some of them anyway
).. voted Naitanui most likely out of the young players to be the best in the competition in the future.People forget Naitanui is still a somewhat long term project, he has unfair expectations due to the fact that he has shown glimpses of what he can do. I don't think he has had any really bad games this year.. however his average games look worse because of what people now expect from him
Very happy to have Nic at the Eagles.
Is Naitanui overrated based on current form?
Yes.
Is Naitanui overrated based on his potential?
No.
Most Eagles fan will agree that the media hype is OTT and facepalms result everytime commentators carry on.
However some people have very, very short term memories.
His games against Essendon (pre-season and H&A) and PA had him BOG (Essendon games) and close to BOG (PA game) and he also had a pretty good game against Hawthorn.
Earlier this season the head coaches.. you'd assume they might know a thing or two (well some of them anyway
People forget Naitanui is still a somewhat long term project, he has unfair expectations due to the fact that he has shown glimpses of what he can do. I don't think he has had any really bad games this year.. however his average games look worse because of what people now expect from him
Very happy to have Nic at the Eagles.
Finally a sensible post about NicNat
It was interesting to hear about ( no FTA for this game ). McEvoy playing on NicNat. McEvoy was taken first round but later in the same draft as Kreuzer.
I expected McEvoy to go OK in the ruck but to struggle around the ground against Nick. I was fairly pleased at the outcome, and it seems the relatively unhyped McEvoy may turn out all right in the end. Mind you there are things that Nick can do that Ben will never be able to do.
kfleong2000
Club Legend
McEvoy is looking like something too, he did well yesterday for what was expected.
Spartan also chipping in with an extremely sensible post there.
I think we expect way too much from our young AFL players - did people hang this much shit on Kreuzer when he was 19 and 20?
Spartan also chipping in with an extremely sensible post there.
I think we expect way too much from our young AFL players - did people hang this much shit on Kreuzer when he was 19 and 20?
Papa Juggs
Hall of Famer
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Cox coming back has stifled his development.
Not that it matters. Less TOG less chance of injury. Don't want those big knees turning to Jelly before the premiership windows opens again for the high flying Eagles.
Not that it matters. Less TOG less chance of injury. Don't want those big knees turning to Jelly before the premiership windows opens again for the high flying Eagles.
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
Yes they did.. but it was usually restricted to the Bay.
As mentioned before Cox coming back has to a small extent slowed down his development.. his TOG is low most weeks although he spent a reasonable amount of time on the field yesterday.
He will continue to get bagged when he plays average games and when he has another BOG the hype will get out of control until he has another couple of average games.
Like I said before as an Eagles fan I'm very happy he's on our list.. and together with guys like Kennedy, LeCras and Hurn will form the nucleus of our next premiership challenging team.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
For those that don't watch NN play - it's probably an easy assumption to make based on the media time he gets.
However - NicNat's main weakness, and it's glaring at the minute, is his skill around the ground. The vast majority of his possessions come at a stoppage - not around the ground.
So he's not going to pants a player like McEvoy, Kreuzer, Goldstein, Vickery etc around the ground - it's just not his gamestyle yet. What his skill is - is the contest and the ruck. He still got his hands on the ball yesterday more than the Saints ruckman - as back-ups go - his tapwork is the equal of any in the league. It's just his around the ground stuff needs a lot of work.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Ridiculously overrated by the media Yes. But I'm sure Nic and WCE have no illusions.
LOL at all the WC posters crying about hanging shit on Naitanui because he's only 20.
The exact same posters that bagged the shit out of an 18 year old Watts.
You will never be an elite AFL player without elite footy smarts and elite skills. Naitanui doesn't have either, and I highly doubt he will somehow be able to develop these. It's not like he is new to football, he has been playing for over 10 years.
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LOL at all the WC posters crying about hanging shit on Naitanui because he's only 20.
The exact same posters that bagged the shit out of an 18 year old Watts.
You will never be an elite AFL player without elite footy smarts and elite skills. Naitanui doesn't have either, and I highly doubt he will somehow be able to develop these. It's not like he is new to football, he has been playing for over 10 years.
Footy smarts come from playing the game from an early age and cannot be taught or developed - you either have them or you don't
He can run and jump like crazy - though his smarts/skills around the ground are below par
He will develop them to an extent but will never have the same as the elite players who know what to do and when
I can def. agree that many people base their idea of NN on what his potential is - rather than how he is now - though his potential is when he can grab it and run out of a contested situation - once he's free his ability to be effective is questionable
compare that kind of skill with someone like Hill or Rich - both from the same draft and both have shown they can do this
i wouldn't say he's a spud but I doubt he'll get anything near a brownlow and if he does it'll be because of everyone overrating him once more
kfleong2000
Club Legend
LOL at all the WC posters crying about hanging shit on Naitanui because he's only 20.
The exact same posters that bagged the shit out of an 18 year old Watts.
You will never be an elite AFL player without elite footy smarts and elite skills. Naitanui doesn't have either, and I highly doubt he will somehow be able to develop these. It's not like he is new to football, he has been playing for over 10 years.
No, they aren't the same posters. You're like all the other Melbourne flogs who somehow confuse Bay 13 with the main board and think that the Eagles flogs there represent majority opinion.
Inferiority complex is rearing its ugly head.
Re: Nic Nat's skills and smarts - there's no need for a rebuttal on that when it has been amply disproved by other comments (not necessarily Eagles fans) and his stats and general expert opinions when he was playing WAFL and junior footy.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Like the coaches over-rating him?
And effective - Nicnat's handball to men in space is exemplary at the minute. He drags a couple of tacklers and more often than not puts a man into space.
And you can't learn positioning? There's a bloke dominating in your side playing in the same position at the moment who has devloped his awareness of the game exponentially in the past 8 years. How did Aaron Sandilands 'footy smarts' go when he barely averaged 3/4 kicks a game in his first 3 years and 60 games (aged 21-24 i'll point out).
After 3 years - he got up to 9 possessions a game - WOW - amazing footy smarts he had to gather him so much of the ball.
He's now in the best 5 players in the league.
There's one thing criticising his ability in open play - but tripe like that is, well tripe.
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
LOL at all the WC posters crying about hanging shit on Naitanui because he's only 20.
The exact same posters that bagged the shit out of an 18 year old Watts.
You will never be an elite AFL player without elite footy smarts and elite skills. Naitanui doesn't have either, and I highly doubt he will somehow be able to develop these. It's not like he is new to football, he has been playing for over 10 years.
Don't confuse Bay 13 with the Main Board.
Most of us don't really give a shit if other posters hang shit on Naitanui.. however this is a footy forum so there will be those of us to rebutt and comment on the topic.
I guess given that you've already categorically stated that Naitanui will never be an elite player we should just /thread and stop discussing Naitanui altogether.
Wait a minute.. most of the current AFL coaches and other household names like Leigh Matthews believe Naitanui could eventually be the best player in the competition.
Lets see.. who knows more about football.. random Melbourne flog on the interwebs.. or AFL coaches, etc.
Tough one.
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I'm pretty sure *Clive had some ginger pubes, therfore placing him in ranga territory.
*sigh
The guy played last year. You shouldn't compare him to first years from this year.
How's Hill going this year? He's got 10 points from one game in the AFLPA award as well. Add in Hurley, Yarran, Sidebottom, Yarran, Redden, Ballantyne, Beams, Suban and Bennell as guys who have all had good games in the seniors. If you are talking potential then the guy has it and he does the flashy very well.
People have been talking him up for a brownlow this year and thats just stupid. Naitanui has the chance to be a star but if he's not first ruck he is really, really struggling at his current stage of development.
jko'neal
Cancelled
If he's not first ruck I can't see where they can play him considering the forward line set up they pick. Looks to be tired IMO may need a rest, was well behind the play speed wise yesterday.
Defacto
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his biggest weakness is reading the play. mcevoy got murdered in the hit outs by nic nat but completely outplayed nic nat around the ground.
Plugger35
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He has plenty of potential but still struggles to have an impact against quality opposition, other than showing flashes of brilliance. Can't say he is overrated at his age when he is yet to reach his peak.
I wouldn't swap Rhys Stanley for him though, who I think has just as much potential as a ruckman/key forward but with much less hype.
I wouldn't swap Rhys Stanley for him though, who I think has just as much potential as a ruckman/key forward but with much less hype.
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
Plugger35
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Did you forget you weren't in the Bay for that last comment?
No, I'm actually being serious. I wouldn't swap Stanley for him, I think he has just as much potential as Naitanui and Watts but because he wasn't an early draft pick there isn't as much hype about him.
kane249
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LOL at all the WC posters crying about hanging shit on Naitanui because he's only 20.
The exact same posters that bagged the shit out of an 18 year old Watts.
You will never be an elite AFL player without elite footy smarts and elite skills. Naitanui doesn't have either, and I highly doubt he will somehow be able to develop these. It's not like he is new to football, he has been playing for over 10 years.
Footy smarts can't be taught? Ever see Dean Cox at the same age? didn't know where to run and was completely lost in terms of positioning around the ground. He learned by sitting down for hours and watching tapes of Luke Darcy and taking notes. He is now tutoring Naitanui so fair to say he's got a pretty good mentor who was once in the same position.
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
If the 16 teams were given a choice between Naitanui and Stanley now how many do you think will pick Stanley?
Plugger35
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Not sure, I'd imagine most would probably go with Naitanui but based more on hype and reputation than anything. Ability wise I don't think there is really much difference between the two, both are very athletic and highly skilled players for their size. Naitanui can probably do the more exciting, spectacular things but Stanley looks capable of being a more conventional, consistent player.
Pretty sure every club would be keen to have either Naitanui or Stanley on their lists. Both are exciting prospects, who will become the better player over their careers only time will tell.
fair point but i bet if lyon was offered naitanui in return for stanley, stanley would be out the door quicker than you can say "premiership, here we come"
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