Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree, I'm quite comfortable that under his leadership Israel is committing genocide, so no I wouldn't approve of it regardless.

But, given he himself is using that kind of argument to justify why they should have the land, it's relevant.

Its like saying Aboriginals were here before Colonials, and they liked it here and had special places, therefore ...today in 2024 we can recruit people from overseas to identify as aboriginal and they can help us slaughter everyone else.

Most sane people wouldn't think that was anything like a solution.

 

[faible]

Its like saying Aboriginals were here before Colonials, and they liked it here and had special places, therefore ...today in 2024 we can recruit people from overseas to identify as aboriginal and they can help us slaughter everyone else.

Most sane people wouldn't think that was anything like a solution.

They shouldn’t, but plenty keep supporting Israel’s actions so here we are.

 

[Saint]

I changed my name to Abu Jewsus of Nazereth, so I'm now defacto ruler of all of the Middle East. I identify as half-Jewish, half-Christian with Islamic tendencies.

His name isn't relevant. What's relevant is that the historic claims of Jews to places which were parts of an ancient place called Judea for a brief period of history are obviously as stupid as Romans claiming England.

At least the ABC is now reporting that Israel killed the majority of civilians on October 7th. The truth is slowly coming out.

It's why israel is so incensed by Hamas killing hostages. It's always the way that they complain most about that which they are guilty of most themselves.

 

[Saint]

Elections in Jordan are going on right now. 21% unemployment and a country plunged into debt and suffering by a collapse in tourism. If the war expands too much into the West Bank, Jordan will become a hot-bed of Islamic terrorism aimed at Israel. The conditions are primed.

If Palestinians displaced in Jordan vote in large numbers for Islamist parties, it won't change any action of the Govt (It's still a monarchy in practice), it will signal to the monarchy about how much the population is willing to tolerate with support for Israel.

 

[Not Important]

I changed my name to Abu Jewsus of Nazereth, so I'm now defacto ruler of all of the Middle East. I identify as half-Jewish, half-Christian with Islamic tendencies.

His name isn't relevant. What's relevant is that the historic claims of Jews to places which were parts of an ancient place called Judea for a brief period of history are obviously as stupid as Romans claiming England.

At least the ABC is now reporting that Israel killed the majority of civilians on October 7th. The truth is slowly coming out.

It's why israel is so incensed by Hamas killing hostages. It's always the way that they complain most about that which they are guilty of most themselves.

it’s about being authentic, which is why the post of faible (#1,845) is spot on.

but as you suggest it’s significance pales in the scheme of things..... the history of the occupation and genocide.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

His name isn't relevant. What's relevant is that the historic claims of Jews to places which were parts of an ancient place called Judea for a brief period of history are obviously as stupid as Romans claiming England.

At least the ABC is now reporting that Israel killed the majority of civilians on October 7th. The truth is slowly coming out.

It's why israel is so incensed by Hamas killing hostages. It's always the way that they complain most about that which they are guilty of most themselves.

I've seen this.

Israel accused of killing its own civilians under the 'Hannibal Directive' to avoid them being taken hostage

The controversial "Hannibal Directive", which Israel says isn't named for the famous Carthaginian general who took poison rather than be captured by the Romans, was reportedly enacted after the October 7 Hamas attack, with revelations detailing attacks by IDF tanks and helicopters on homes and...

www.abc.net.au

I haven't seen the claims that Israel killed the "majority" of civilians.

 

[sr36]

think you may have missed the point. on second thoughts remove "think"

I think you may have actually. Netanyahu was born in Tel Aviv. But like a heap of Israeli's, he has some European ancestry.

 

[Not Important]

I think you may have actually. Netanyahu was born in Tel Aviv. But like a heap of Israeli's, he has some European ancestry.

i’m more than comfortable with my position. the explanation by faible covers it well.

and please don’t attribute to me things i have not said,

 

[sr36]

i’m more than comfortable with my position. the explanation by faible covers it well.

and please don’t attribute to me things i have not said,

What did I attribute to you? You seemed to think that tweet was significant.

Did you think about the underlying messages in that tweet?

The tweet was akin to pointing at an Australian born politician with a foreign born parent and saying the politician isn't Australian.

And making a deal that a Jewish family from Poland had a Polish surname - did you consider why they may have Policized their name? And why they may have changed it when arriving in Israel?

What Netanyahu is leading is absolutely disgusting, but the underlying messages in that tweet are obnoxious..

 

[Saint]

I've seen this.

Israel accused of killing its own civilians under the 'Hannibal Directive' to avoid them being taken hostage

The controversial "Hannibal Directive", which Israel says isn't named for the famous Carthaginian general who took poison rather than be captured by the Romans, was reportedly enacted after the October 7 Hamas attack, with revelations detailing attacks by IDF tanks and helicopters on homes and...

www.abc.net.au

I haven't seen the claims that Israel killed the "majority" of civilians.

Just to be clear, I don't mean to excuse or absolve Hamas and PIJ who were definitely trying to kill civilians as well as taking some hostage. Both war crimes.

In the days after the attack, when Israel was confirming the toll, they were at pains to say about how many were burnt alive or beyond recognition. Considering Hamas only had grenades and guns, this was much more likely to have been caused by tanks and helicopters firing missiles. Witness accounts have leaked about an Israeli tank being ordered to blow up a house full of 12 civilians. The completely destroyed cars at the music festival and on the trail back from the music festival was almost certainly all caused by the IDF and included Israeli civilians.

And you have to make sure to consider that if you're looking at soldiers/civilians, that the civilian figure includes police and armed security guards which make up around 100 victims.

The Oct 7th attack by Hamas and PIJ terrorists killed 20 children (under 15) out of the 1,200 victims, a ratio of about 2%.

Israel have killed children at a ratio of 32%, including more than 90 children in the West Bank.

My point, as always, is that Hamas and PIJ acting like terrorists does not excuse Israel from acting like worse terrorists either before or after October 7th. Anyone who says "but Hamas" and defends Israel is using the exact same argument as Hamas (not saying that SaintsSeptember is doing this).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just to be clear, I don't mean to excuse or absolve Hamas and PIJ who were definitely trying to kill civilians as well as taking some hostage. Both war crimes.

In the days after the attack, when Israel was confirming the toll, they were at pains to say about how many were burnt alive or beyond recognition. Considering Hamas only had grenades and guns, this was much more likely to have been caused by tanks and helicopters firing missiles. Witness accounts have leaked about an Israeli tank being ordered to blow up a house full of 12 civilians. The completely destroyed cars at the music festival and on the trail back from the music festival was almost certainly all caused by the IDF and included Israeli civilians.

And you have to make sure to consider that if you're looking at soldiers/civilians, that the civilian figure includes police and armed security guards which make up around 100 victims.

The Oct 7th attack by Hamas and PIJ terrorists killed 20 children (under 15) out of the 1,200 victims, a ratio of about 2%.

Israel have killed children at a ratio of 32%, including more than 90 children in the West Bank.

My point, as always, is that Hamas and PIJ acting like terrorists does not excuse Israel from acting like worse terrorists either before or after October 7th. Anyone who says "but Hamas" and defends Israel is using the exact same argument as Hamas (not saying that SaintsSeptember is doing this).

Its like Alien vs Preditor.
The good guys are the innocents stuck in amongst it.

 

[Saint]

What are we guessing the new name of the resistance will be after Hamas is disbanded?

Or are there people who think that everyone who lost their brother, sister, mother, uncle to a foreign occupier who is still occupying, oppressing, stealing land and taking over holy sites is finally going to accept their place as the untermensch?

I'm 30-70 between keeping Hamas going, and starting a new organisation which does exactly the same thing, but hasn't been demonised in the western media yet.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What are we guessing the new name of the resistance will be after Hamas is disbanded?

Or are there people who think that everyone who lost their brother, sister, mother, uncle to a foreign occupier who is still occupying, oppressing, stealing land and taking over holy sites is finally going to accept their place as the untermensch?

I'm 30-70 between keeping Hamas going, and starting a new organisation which does exactly the same thing, but hasn't been demonised in the western media yet.

PLO under Arafat was certainly heading in the right direction.

 

[Saint]

PLO under Arafat was certainly heading in the right direction.

So was Israel under Rabin. Israeli terrorists managed to kill Rabin but kept missing Arafat. The Israeli terrorists, in partnership with Hamas terrorists managed to derail the peace process and have remained in power ever since, except in the shrinking West Bank where Israeli terrorists steal more land and kill more civilians every year.

 

[Not Important]

What did I attribute to you? You seemed to think that tweet was significant.

Did you think about the underlying messages in that tweet?

The tweet was akin to pointing at an Australian born politician with a foreign born parent and saying the politician isn't Australian.

And making a deal that a Jewish family from Poland had a Polish surname - did you consider why they may have Policized their name? And why they may have changed it when arriving in Israel?

What Netanyahu is leading is absolutely disgusting, but the underlying messages in that tweet are obnoxious..

you would do well as a newscorp churno. they like beat-ups and exaggerations.

i thought the “ tweet was significant” you say. my comment at the top of the tweet was “did not know this”. i thought it was of interest bc i was unaware of it.

i also thought it was interesting bc i saw hypocrisy. as i now post for the 3rd time i referenced the post of faible who covered my feelings quite well.

to put it plainly, netanyahu’s schtick - erroneously - has been to make great play of israel’s historical right to the arabian penninsula. that would - in his mind - amount to entitlement and a justification for their decades of occupation and now genocide. in so doing, netanyahu has drawn on familial historical connections. turns out his familial connections aren’t historical in the way the term is used in the context of the land in question. that would amount to hypocrisy where i come from.

that’s it from me on this matter.

 

[Not Important]

the israeli despots have no morality, decency, or humanity.

 

[Not Important]

our gov’t, and the opposition is worse, are a disgrace on gaza.

11 months into Israel's onslaught in #Gaza, the Australian government continues to obfuscate about its deep complicity in the kind of defence equipment being used by Israel, denying what we know is true.


This kind of gaslighting convinces nobody. And more importantly, there's no change in policy:

antony loewenstein

Australia backs UK decision to curb arms sales to Israel

Exclusive: Foreign minister Penny Wong says she ‘welcomes’ the British move and Palestinian civilians ‘cannot pay the price’ of defeating Hamas

www.theguardian.com

 

[10571z]

yet you’d think reading the daily mainstream media it was the other way around.

Who took the first hostages

 

[Saint]

Who took the first hostages

Israel. You didn't know this?

 

[Saint]

The latest miracle of the Levant has happened.

An Israeli sniper 200m away, claims he was shooting at somebody else, but his bullet magically and accidentally hit an American protester in the head.

One shot, 200m away. If that's true, I'll start believing in the virgin conception.

Biden Administration: We believe Israel.

It's sick the stuff the US Govt will pretend to believe to excuse a murder of their own civilian.

(Australia have also done this with the murder of aid worker Frankcom). Accepting that a targeted missile strike was "an accident"

 

[faible]

The latest miracle of the Levant has happened.

An Israeli sniper 200m away, claims he was shooting at somebody else, but his bullet magically and accidentally hit an American protester in the head.

One shot, 200m away. If that's true, I'll start believing in the virgin conception.

Biden Administration: We believe Israel.

It's sick the stuff the US Govt will pretend to believe to excuse a murder of their own civilian.

(Australia have also done this with the murder of aid worker Frankcom). Accepting that a targeted missile strike was "an accident"

The IDF is Schrodinger's military.

Simultaneously incredibly capable and competent, and also keep accidentally committing war crimes and murdering civilians.

 

[Saint]

Israel killing 670 Palestinians with drones, missiles, invasions and accidental sniper shots in the head and arresting 5,000 is "security".

One truck killing an occupier in a "recently legalised outpost" (code for illegal occupation post) is "terrorism".

Israel is a terrorist state living in a fantasy land where they're the ones under constant threat.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/man-critically-injured-as-palestinian-tanker-rams-west-bank-bus-stop/

 

[Not Important]

Who took the first hostages

irael has had hundreds of palestinians in custody for years. without trial. many kids for doing no more than throwing stones.

 

[Not Important]

at long last. way too late

 

[Not Important]

“When Israel bombed the first hospital in Gaza the world would not believe it.

Israel said it was a misfired Hamas rocket and the mainstream media went into protection mode.

Israel has now destroyed all 36 hospitals, and bombed multiple refugee camps in Gaza… and not a single word of condemnation from the mainstream media or western governments…”

pelham