Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[sdfc]

How many of the Palestinians are descendants of people who’ve lived there for thousands of years and have been a number of relgions?

It’s not as though all Jews just up and left only to come back when Israel was established. Many would have simply converted to whatever religion it became and carried on living there.

Well until the Nakba…

Adopting a different set of rules for following the same god to avoid a tax is rational.

 

[Present Not Past]

The UN is about to recommend that Netanyahu be tried as a war criminal.

What was gifted to the Israeli people by the United Nations, can be taken away by the United Nations.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

What was gifted to the Israeli people by the United Nations, can be taken away by the United Nations.

Not gonna happen. What needs to happen is for America to stop sending arms and to stop supporting the Netanyahu regime.
I think Bill Clinton would have done that by now.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Israel submits challenges to ICC on Gaza arrest warrant requests
Israel submitted on Friday formal challenges to the international criminal court (ICC) over its jurisdiction and the legality of arrest warrant requests against Israeli leaders for their conduct of the Gaza war, the foreign ministry said.

Reuters reports that Israel’s filings might further delay a decision on the warrants, requested in May against Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and defence minister Yoav Gallant.

ICC prosecutor Karim Khan last month urged judges to rule on the warrants, sought also against Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and others in the Palestinian militant group.

Guardian live blog.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[JayJ20]

Why is what happened thousands of years ago irrelevant? ...... maybe its irrelevant because it suits your agenda that Israel (at least in their traditional home land) should never exist .... when it fact it did exist 3000 years ago for over 500 years until the Babylonians conquered the area ..... its definitely not irrelevant to a large portion of the world's Jewish population who have been persecuted for many millenia

Also it's seems that the Arab population were pretty happy about Western interference during WW1 ... no complaining then

It's an issue to the European and American Jews. It wasn't to the Jews who continued living there.
The "Kingdom of Israel" from 3000 years ago and the present day state called Israel are not the same thing. At all. The Israelites back then and the European/American Jews now are also not the same people. I have Arab ancestry (specifically to present day Saudi) closer in lineage than some of these European/American Jews. Perhaps people will allow me to go back to Saudi Arabia and kick out a foreign person living there so I can settle in their house. That's absurd. And just because I have Arab ancestry doesn't make me ethnically Arab or the same ethnically as my Arab ancestors. I'm not. Ethiopian Jews are from Africa. They're not indigenous/native to Palestine and neither are the European/American Jews. Nobody says they couldn't migrate and live there. But to make it seem like no one is there and declare sovereignty via mass migration and kicking 100s of thousands of people from their homes? Please.

Western interference during WWI was also very problematic in the Arab world within Arabs. It gave power to the Saudis who established a kingdom, slaughtered many Muslims both within the region and outside of it, demolished many Islamic sites that were preserved for over a thousand years, spent billions of dollars in oil money to spread the corrupt and evil doctrine of Wahhabism throughout the world (that gave rise to extremist groups like Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda terrorising Muslim countries) and continue to occupy the Holy Lands of Makkah and Madinah while treating visiting Muslims with contempt.

They have a very similar history to what happened in Palestine. They slaughtered the people of Makkah and Madinah when they took control over it.

It also disunited the Muslim and Arab world by diving the lands in arbitrary segments. Go and ask the Yemen and Levantine Arabs how happy they are with Western interference during WWI. Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Israelis are the three major problems in the Middle East and two of them arose from Western interference.

The region could have been peaceful if not for Western interference just like peace was achieved in Europe after WWII despite millennia of wars between Europeans.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Sarcoidevo]

It's an issue to the European and American Jews. It wasn't to the Jews who continued living there.
The "Kingdom of Israel" from 3000 years ago and the present day state called Israel are not the same thing. At all. The Israelites back then and the European/American Jews now are also not the same people. I have Arab ancestry (specifically to present day Saudi) closer in lineage than some of these European/American Jews. Perhaps people will allow me to go back to Saudi Arabia and kick out a foreign person living there so I can settle in their house. That's absurd. And just because I have Arab ancestry doesn't make me ethnically Arab or the same ethnically as my Arab ancestors. I'm not. Ethiopian Jews are from Africa. They're not indigenous/native to Palestine and neither are the European/American Jews. Nobody says they couldn't migrate and live there. But to make it seem like no one is there and declare sovereignty via mass migration and kicking 100s of thousands of people from their homes? Please.

Western interference during WWI was also very problematic in the Arab world within Arabs. It gave power to the Saudis who established a kingdom, slaughtered many Muslims both within the region and outside of it, demolished many Islamic sites that were preserved for over a thousand years, spent billions of dollars in oil money to spread the corrupt and evil doctrine of Wahhabism throughout the world (that gave rise to extremist groups like Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda terrorising Muslim countries) and continue to occupy the Holy Lands of Makkah and Madinah while treating visiting Muslims with contempt.

They have a very similar history to what happened in Palestine. They slaughtered the people of Makkah and Madinah when they took control over it.

It also disunited the Muslim and Arab world by diving the lands in arbitrary segments. Go and ask the Yemen and Levantine Arabs how happy they are with Western interference during WWI. Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Israelis are the three major problems in the Middle East and two of them arose from Western interference.

The region could have been peaceful if not for Western interference just like peace was achieved in Europe after WWII despite millennia of wars between Europeans.

So the Ottomans were good guys?

Pretty sure the Arab tribes desperately wanted them out after centuries of oppression and they managed to do this with the help of allied forces during WW1

And correct it was an issue for Euro & US Jews whose ancestors had been persecuted and exiled from the Levant (their ancestral homeland) and the small minority of Jews that did stay in the area had to do so living under Babylonian, Roman & eventually Muslim rule (to name a few) ... so they didn't have much of a choice in the matter ... unless leave ....as for them not being the same people as their ancestors well I would say they will vehemently disagree with you there

As for Arab on Arab violence they did and still do pretty well on that front without interfering outsiders .... the whole region is based on tribal/family affliations that date back centuries ... many still don't get along

As it stands I don't think the Israeli nation are willing to be exiled again ..... seems they have their mind set on staying ..... so its likely all out war which Israel seemingly has the upper hand at the moment and will likey continue to do so .... or all parties come to the table again and try and find a permanent peaceful solution.

Of course Iran would love to nuke Israel but that would mean the end of Iran or at least the current regime and of course Israel as well ... maybe thats where peace lies?

 

[JayJ20]

So the Ottomans were good guys?

Pretty sure the Arab tribes desperately wanted them out after centuries of oppression and they managed to do this with the help of allied forces during WW1

And correct it was an issue for Euro & US Jews whose ancestors had been persecuted and exiled from the Levant (their ancestral homeland) and the small minority of Jews that did stay in the area had to do so living under Babylonian, Roman & eventually Muslim rule (to name a few) ... so they didn't have much of a choice in the matter ... unless leave ....as for them not being the same people as their ancestors well I would say they will vehemently disagree with you there

As for Arab on Arab violence they did and still do pretty well on that front without interfering outsiders .... the whole region is based on tribal/family affliations that date back centuries ... many still don't get along

As it stands I don't think the Israeli nation are willing to be exiled again ..... seems they have their mind set on staying ..... so its likely all out war which Israel seemingly has the upper hand at the moment and will likey continue to do so .... or all parties come to the table again and try and find a permanent peaceful solution.

Of course Iran would love to nuke Israel but that would mean the end of Iran or at least the current regime and of course Israel as well ... maybe thats where peace lies?

So we can all go back thousands of years ago and claim lands our ancestors held? Will Australia, the US, New Zealand and Canada give power back to the indigenous populations? Also, the Israelites lived alongside the Canaanites in the Levant. Many Palestinians descend from Canaanites so white European Jews are ethnically cleansing an indigenous population.

This is a pointless conversation. The modern Israeli state is just another colonial state by the British and has nothing to do with what is called the "Kingdom of Israel" thousands of years ago. Fact is, there is a genocide happening right now because of the west supplying weapons to the Israelis to persecute a population that have lived there for centuries. No amount of history excuses what is happening right now.

Zionists are vile narcissists that need to be held to account for the crimes they committed.

 

[DangerousD]

every NATO member does what the USA does.

So that hypotehtical wouldn't happen.

I’m not so sure, so why not entertain the question for arguments sake.

 

[sr36]

It's an issue to the European and American Jews. It wasn't to the Jews who continued living there.
The "Kingdom of Israel" from 3000 years ago and the present day state called Israel are not the same thing. At all. The Israelites back then and the European/American Jews now are also not the same people. I have Arab ancestry (specifically to present day Saudi) closer in lineage than some of these European/American Jews. Perhaps people will allow me to go back to Saudi Arabia and kick out a foreign person living there so I can settle in their house. That's absurd. And just because I have Arab ancestry doesn't make me ethnically Arab or the same ethnically as my Arab ancestors. I'm not. Ethiopian Jews are from Africa. They're not indigenous/native to Palestine and neither are the European/American Jews. Nobody says they couldn't migrate and live there. But to make it seem like no one is there and declare sovereignty via mass migration and kicking 100s of thousands of people from their homes? Please.

Western interference during WWI was also very problematic in the Arab world within Arabs. It gave power to the Saudis who established a kingdom, slaughtered many Muslims both within the region and outside of it, demolished many Islamic sites that were preserved for over a thousand years, spent billions of dollars in oil money to spread the corrupt and evil doctrine of Wahhabism throughout the world (that gave rise to extremist groups like Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda terrorising Muslim countries) and continue to occupy the Holy Lands of Makkah and Madinah while treating visiting Muslims with contempt.

They have a very similar history to what happened in Palestine. They slaughtered the people of Makkah and Madinah when they took control over it.

It also disunited the Muslim and Arab world by diving the lands in arbitrary segments. Go and ask the Yemen and Levantine Arabs how happy they are with Western interference during WWI. Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Israelis are the three major problems in the Middle East and two of them arose from Western interference.

The region could have been peaceful if not for Western interference just like peace was achieved in Europe after WWII despite millennia of wars between Europeans.

It's easy to set it up as a East vs West narrative, but it also looks like what has happened for millenia all around the world when an Empire collapses. Ottoman Empire collapses creating a power vaccuum in the region and a period of conflict following it.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

So we can all go back thousands of years ago and claim lands our ancestors held? Will Australia, the US, New Zealand and Canada give power back to the indigenous populations? Also, the Israelites lived alongside the Canaanites in the Levant. Many Palestinians descend from Canaanites so white European Jews are ethnically cleansing an indigenous population.

This is a pointless conversation. The modern Israeli state is just another colonial state by the British and has nothing to do with what is called the "Kingdom of Israel" thousands of years ago. Fact is, there is a genocide happening right now because of the west supplying weapons to the Israelis to persecute a population that have lived there for centuries. No amount of history excuses what is happening right now.

Zionists are vile narcissists that need to be held to account for the crimes they committed.

Why are u colour profiling?

Jews have been persecuted for centuries as well .... exiled from their homeland .... any anger that way ..... or that timeframe doesn't count?

BTW ... I agree that Netenyahu needs to be held to account but so do many leaders all across the world .... past and present

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I’m not so sure, so why not entertain the question for arguments sake.

i mean sure but its kind of like asking what if the sky turned green tomorrow.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

i mean sure but its kind of like asking what if the sky turned green tomorrow.

 

[JayJ20]

Why are u colour profiling?

Jews have been persecuted for centuries as well .... exiled from their homeland .... any anger that way ..... or that timeframe doesn't count?

BTW ... I agree that Netenyahu needs to be held to account but so do many leaders all across the world .... past and present

I'm colour profiling so that it is clear that the same racial classification that applies to everyone else also applies to European Jews. So that it is clear they immigrated to that region either wilfully or to seek asylum. None of that exiled stuff matters. They were refugees from Europe plain and simple.

No one has an issue with Ethiopian Jews being called black or African. Because that's what they are. Even until this day they are called Ethiopian, black or African even within Israeli society.

I'm not calling the Moroccan, Ethiopian, Iraqi and Yemeni Jews white because they're not white. They're not all a monolith because they have differences in backgrounds and culture to the white Jews.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I'm colour profiling so that it is clear that the same racial classification that applies to everyone else also applies to European Jews. So that it is clear they immigrated to that region either wilfully or to seek asylum. None of that exiled stuff matters. They were refugees from Europe plain and simple.

No one has an issue with Ethiopian Jews being called black or African. Because that's what they are. Even until this day they are called Ethiopian, black or African even within Israeli society.

I'm not calling the Moroccan, Ethiopian, Iraqi and Yemeni Jews white because they're not white. They're not all a monolith because they have differences in backgrounds and culture to the white Jews.

You would classify me as white yet I am very tanned .... what gives?

By color profiling people you are part of a very big problem.... classifying humans by the colour of their skin

Along with completely disregarding centuries of history tells me everything I need to know

 

[JayJ20]

You would classify me as white yet I am very tanned .... what gives?

By color profiling people you are part of a very big problem.... classifying humans by the colour of their skin

Along with completely disregarding centuries of history tells me everything I need to know

As long as it applies to the rest of us, it'll apply to European Jews.

I'm Ethiopian with Arab ancestry on one side and very likely Israelite ancestry on the other side as Ethiopian Jews come from my region. I'm very likely a descendant of Prophet Solomon also known as King Solomon.

Does that make me Arab or an Israelite? Does that make me different from the Ethiopian Jews? If I and an Ethiopian Jew were walking around, nobody would claim that one is black and the other isn't. Racially there's no difference between us. They are Jewish and I am Muslim, but we're not racially different.

No one has an issue with Italians, Greeks, Russians, Germans, white Americans being classified as white. Or Africans including Ethiopian Jews being classified as black. So why are European Jews the exception?

Please. It's because they want to distance themselves from their European origins to justify the atrocities they committed the last 75 years.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[JayJ20]

You would classify me as white yet I am very tanned .... what gives?

By color profiling people you are part of a very big problem.... classifying humans by the colour of their skin

Along with completely disregarding centuries of history tells me everything I need to know

Also, the only one that says "classifying humans by the colour of their skin is a problem" are those that didn't live with that experience.

Acknowledging the colour of someone's skin acknowledges the lived experiences of people that are discriminated against for it. This idea that racial categorisation is the problem rather than how people of different colours are treated is itself the problem.

It's like those white people that say "I see no colour" as if it's supposed to be helping us when all it does is minimise our lived experience as black people.

I've lived my whole life as a black man and experienced the racism and micro-aggressions associated with that. Why is it a problem for me to categorise myself as black? Imagine telling an Ethiopian Jew they are not black after all they've been through.

When it comes to European Jews, apparently we can't even mention what they are and it's "racial profiling" even though they benefit from white supremacy today.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

View attachment 2116567

the sky is still blue in all of those……

 

[faible]

Also, the only one that says "classifying humans by the colour of their skin is a problem" are those that didn't live with that experience.

Acknowledging the colour of someone's skin acknowledges the lived experiences of people that are discriminated against for it. This idea that racial categorisation is the problem rather than how people of different colours are treated is itself the problem.

It's like those white people that say "I see no colour" as if it's supposed to be helping us when all it does is minimise our lived experience as black people.

I've lived my whole life as a black man and experienced the racism and micro-aggressions associated with that. Why is it a problem for me to categorise myself as black? Imagine telling an Ethiopian Jew they are not black after all they've been through.

When it comes to European Jews, apparently we can't even mention what they are and it's "racial profiling" even though they benefit from white supremacy today.

Also when you’re claiming historical ownership of a land based on your descent, it seems somewhat relevant.

If the state of Israel wasn’t making sweeping claims upon the land based of it being ‘Jewish’ land then we wouldn’t be talking about. But they are.

Some Jews may have no real connection to the land beyond their religion. Some Palestinians are likely descendants of people that were once Jewish, and are now Muslim.

Who has a historical claim to the area?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I'm Ethiopian with Arab ancestry on one side and very likely Israelite ancestry on the other side as Ethiopian Jews come from my region. I'm very likely a descendant of Prophet Solomon also known as King Solomon.

Does that make me Arab or an Israelite? Does that make me different from the Ethiopian Jews?

If any of your family made it to Israel this is what greeted them;

https://www.timesofisrael.com/separate-but-not-equal-treatment-for-israels-ethiopian-jews/

A fine country, is it not?

 

[JayJ20]

Also when you’re claiming historical ownership of a land based on your descent, it seems somewhat relevant.

If the state of Israel wasn’t making sweeping claims upon the land based of it being ‘Jewish’ land then we wouldn’t be talking about. But they are.

Some Jews may have no real connection to the land beyond their religion. Some Palestinians are likely descendants of people that were once Jewish, and are now Muslim.

Who has a historical claim to the area?

Exactly. There's a very good reason why I don't allow people to perpetuate that narrative.

As an Ethiopian Muslim with very likely Israelite ancestry, I am excluded from the so-called "Law of Return" because my great grandparent embraced Islam and I'm Muslim (not that I'd ever live under that government). Ethiopian Christians that converted from Judaism to Christianity over the years are also excluded. Forget Ethiopians. Palestinians who were expelled in the Nakba back in the 1940s cannot return to their homes even though they have ancestral claims to the land. They still have their house keys.

The ancestry narrative falls right through when they deny ownership of a land to a specific group of people that aren't Jewish by faith.

Anyone can see what it really is. They distance themselves from discussions about race because the inconsistencies between how they treat Palestinian and non-Jewish Israelites/Semites compared to Jewish Europeans is very apparent.

 

[JayJ20]

Moving on to what's happening in the modern day, the exploding pagers/walkie talkies/solar panels/electronic devices on foreign soil of a sovereign nation is an act of terror.
It's not "just targeting combatants". They knew those devices would explode amongst civilians.

Imagine if a foreign entity did that to the US by intercepting US military devices, waiting for them to walk amongst civilians and simultaneously detonating it all throughout the country?

Only a sick and twisted individual thinks killing and injuring children and innocent civilians like that is justified.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So we can all go back thousands of years ago and claim lands our ancestors held? Will Australia, the US, New Zealand and Canada give power back to the indigenous populations? Also, the Israelites lived alongside the Canaanites in the Levant. Many Palestinians descend from Canaanites so white European Jews are ethnically cleansing an indigenous population.

This is a pointless conversation. The modern Israeli state is just another colonial state by the British and has nothing to do with what is called the "Kingdom of Israel" thousands of years ago. Fact is, there is a genocide happening right now because of the west supplying weapons to the Israelis to persecute a population that have lived there for centuries. No amount of history excuses what is happening right now.

Zionists are vile narcissists that need to be held to account for the crimes they committed.

Of course not all Aboriginals "got along" so we'd need to break it down into lots of little waring nations.

The Ottomans, for what its worth , were reasonable.
They forced tolerance of different cultures and religions.
Just because those living there might have wanted their own little insular, non-tolerant nations doesn't mean it was the right way to go.

Honestly , if you could have some overriding force to force all of Israel, Hezbollah, Hamas to pull their heads in .... way to go.