Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Lunchlady Doris]

no one is stifling anything, you are stifling yourself.

all i said was a genocide would be hard to prove

You said intent would be hard to prove. I pointed out there are multiple statements of genocidal intent from Israeli political leaders and IDF soldiers of all ranks.

Then you changed your mind and asked how you could prove the IDFs actions were deliberately genocidal. Now here we are.

, and then you are going off on some rant about why would it be hard to prove, than subsequently you agree it would be hard to prove

like what point are you trying to make here? you are going round in circles headbutting your own arse rofl.

I am replying to the things you are posting. This is how internet fora typically work. I understand if this is confusing for you.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

not sure what you googled, but ethnic cleansing is not a technical war crime like genocide is.

genocide is war crime defined under the Genocide convention 1948. Ethnic Cleaning is just a term, it's not a defined war crime.

this will help explain it for you.

Ethnic cleansing isn’t a crime. Should it be?

The term ethnic cleansing is often used, but what does it actually mean, and can it help prevent atrocities and hold perpetrators accountable?

www.thenewhumanitarian.org

That was Encyclopedia Brittanica.

The forcible deportation of a population is a crime against humanity under the ICC statutes.

All these crimes Israel are committing are all so hard to define. It's all so complicated.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

It is 100% genocide. It is not even up for debate.

And Syria over the last decade?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's just hyperbole - accusing Israel of war crimes or human rights violations (for which there is plenty of evidence) doesn't have the same effect of accusations of genocide (the 'crime of crimes') - particularly when there are a number of other countries also committing war crimes and HRVs.

The accusation of genocide is also required to draw the comparison to the holocaust and portray Israel as the evil actor of the ME.

Are you trying to say the accusation is antisemitic, without saying it?

This isn't a foolproof rebuttal of that claim, but there are a number of Israeli genocide experts who have stated they believe Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians. Many holocaust survivors also. I give their opinion some considerable weight.

 

[Suspense]

Are you trying to say the accusation is antisemitic, without saying it?

No it is typically anti-zionist.

 

[ferball]

Are you trying to say the accusation is antisemitic, without saying it?

This isn't a foolproof rebuttal of that claim, but there are a number of Israeli genocide experts who have stated they believe Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians. Many holocaust survivors also. I give their opinion some considerable weight.

Israel has been accused of war crimes and human rights violations for decades.

Since Oct 7th the IDF, under the direction of the Israeli state, have engaged in an ongoing series of crimes against humanity. What Suspense is trying to do is delegitimise the question "Have these crimes against humanity crossed the line into full blown genocide" on the basis that the only reason these crimes are being called genocides is cos they are committed by Israelis; that the genocides in multiple locations in Africa, Yemen, Burma, other parts of Asia aren't really considered genocides by those of us that think this is a genocide and that our objections to this specific situation are based on something other than our nations and our allies ongoing support (both material and political) for this genocide.

 

[Present Not Past]

I think a lot of Israeli's see Palestinians as immigrants, and by deporting them, all of their problems in their country will be solved.

 

[QuietB]

And Syria over the last decade?

Relevance?

 

[Saint]

Genocidal intent:

And just for the record, the Australian Jewish Association charity openly raises money for the movement which organised this conference. They're raising money for genocide tax-free. Can you imagine if I raised money for the Arab re-settlement of Israel?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-ministers-call-for-new-settlements-in-gaza-at-ultranationalist-conference/

Ministers call for Gaza resettlement during Sukkot rally

The camp included a few dozen Sukkot, with a large central Sukkah designated as the "Sukkah of Revival" (Sukkat Hatkums).

www.jpost.com

 

[Saint]

If you want to hear genocidal intent of the population.

Translate any of the hebrew comments on this tweet about a child carrying her injured sister on an IDF forced march.

 

[peetoo]

Well that’s certainly an interesting re appraisal of history.

Fixed it. Remember winny was an aristocrat too

 

[Saint]

Bombing banks now.

Same argument used by Osama Bin Laden for why they attacked the World Trade Centre, to attack the economic structure of America.

Israel, using US weapons, now justifying that type of terrorism.

 

[peetoo]

The good old USA oncebacked a militia to destroy the oil production in Cabinda Angola and the US hawks claimed a huge success

Like most oil installations it was owned by an American company

USA and Israel deserve each other

 

[HirdsTheWord]

crazy read

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/preparing-for-death-how-israel-forced-hamas-leader-yahya-sinwar-into-the-open/news-story/f63f48f56a6d00e3cf73a712afe3b2de

 

[Markfs]

australia needs to rid itself of this relationship but it wont happen

 

[Present Not Past]

If you want to hear genocidal intent of the population.

Translate any of the hebrew comments on this tweet about a child carrying her injured sister on an IDF forced march.

 

[sr36]

Of course it's hard, of course there'll be no real repercussions, but trying to stifle any discussion of it does not help anything or anyone but Israel.

Making it an argument that Israel might win, can also help Israel. Debating whether or not it is genocide turns it from a debate about atrocity, destruction and morality to a debate about a legal definition. And if you convince people in the semantic debate you can sound more reasonable than the opposition with their attempt to categorise it as genocide.

 

[Markfs]

Making it an argument that Israel might win, can also help Israel. Debating whether or not it is genocide turns it from a debate about atrocity, destruction and morality to a debate about a legal definition. And if you convince people in the semantic debate you can sound more reasonable than the opposition with their attempt to categorise it as genocide.

It's not a genocide, they just want the palestinians dead or out of the middle east.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Suspense]

Israel has been accused of war crimes and human rights violations for decades.

Since Oct 7th the IDF, under the direction of the Israeli state, have engaged in an ongoing series of crimes against humanity. What Suspense is trying to do is delegitimise the question "Have these crimes against humanity crossed the line into full blown genocide"

Not delegitimising the question which is worthy of discussion - more the specious assertions like 'It is 100% genocide. It is not even up for debate.' which are made for effect and deliberately attempt to stifle discussion.

 

[Jello_B]

Israeli security minister is demanding resettlement of Gaza, but not intentionally.

 

[Markfs]

i dont think the people getting murdered care about the definition

 

[Saint]

Brings an interesting dimension to genocide. As long as the Prime Minister of a democracy doesnt' say it out loud that they're intentionally committing genocide, even if the outcome is the wiping out of a race of peoples from their homeland and ethnic cleansing, it'll be debatable if they meant it?

I tend to believe there's no such thing as involuntary genocide.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If you want to hear genocidal intent of the population.

Translate any of the hebrew comments on this tweet about a child carrying her injured sister on an IDF forced march.

Scary reading, but not surprising.

Making it an argument that Israel might win, can also help Israel. Debating whether or not it is genocide turns it from a debate about atrocity, destruction and morality to a debate about a legal definition. And if you convince people in the semantic debate you can sound more reasonable than the opposition with their attempt to categorise it as genocide.

Yeah I can see that. May as well retire the term then at this point

War crimes and atrocities are being carried out flagrantly, with the full support of the West. Maybe genocide would be the final straw. Probably not.

 

[Saint]

Schrodingers' hostage negotiations are still ongoing.

If you admit you're in a position to negotiate a hostage release as a "leader" of Hamas, you can be killed and your whole village demolished and if they take you to hospital, all the doctors and nurses will also be bombed.

Or you can just not negotiate and the IDF will just blast away levelling everything until all the hostages are buried in rubble along with anybody else.

Either way, there's no hostages saved, but the "negotiations" are open to anyone who wants to be killed.