Jacinta Allan - How long can she keep the wool over the populist eyes

[Jane Doe]

When the 17 year old VCE student who was driving the stolen car that killed the 26 year old Burwood man was asked by Police why he breached bail and went on the run his response was something to the effect he thought the curfew imposed on his was unreasonable...

Just sums up what a sad joke its become in this state.

 

[Jane Doe]

Being the toughest on crime is always one of the great races to the bottom in state politics because it's one of the few ways party's can distinguish themselves from each other.

There has to be consequences for actions. I know where you "lean" on these things like this so I am not surprised by your post.

 

[kalex6251]

the right are getting bolshie lately

you would be forgiven for thinking a liberal leadership spill is in the offing ...... with a tough on crime candidate to emerge from the rabble that is the vic liberal opposition ..... someone who can satisfy the demands of the religious terrorists that lurk on the extreme right of the party with ................. ......... steve price's readership and rebecca judds social media following

 

[Jane Doe]

the right are getting bolshie lately

you would be forgiven for thinking a liberal leadership spill is in the offing ...... with a tough on crime candidate to emerge from the rabble that is the vic liberal opposition ..... someone who can satisfy the demands of the religious terrorists that lurk on the extreme right of the party with ................. ......... steve price's readership and rebecca judds social media following

Nothing to do with politics. Just want a system where their consequences for people's actions. You can clearly see there is an issue at the moment. For the person to skip bail and complain that the bail conditions would affect his VCE is just laughable. No thought for the poor person that passed away.

 

[kalex6251]

Nothing to do with politics. Just want a system where their consequences for people's actions. You can clearly see there is an issue at the moment. For the person to skip bail and complain that the bail conditions would affect his VCE is just laughable. No thought for the poor person that passed away.

..... yeah ..... righto lol

 

[Sttew]

the right are getting bolshie lately

So discussing youth crime is "getting bolshie"?

You'd prefer it was swept under the carpet and just not discussed at all?

 

[Jane Doe]

..... yeah ..... righto lol

I speak as a victim of one of these crimes. I know a few of you like to make it right v left. I just want the legal system to start actually looking at whats happening in this state.

 

[peetoo]

Being the toughest on crime is always one of the great races to the bottom in state politics because it's one of the few ways party's can distinguish themselves from each other.

They can easily sound unhinged though. A couple of Victorian elections ago for example

 

[GrayRanga]

You are digging yourself a bigger hole with every post you make about this.

So tell me you think these people are getting harsh penalties?

You really need to think before you post.

How about you think about what you're saying before you post?

Under Australian Law (and most Western countries that share a similar legal basis) an individual is considered innocent of the crime(s) they are accused of until they are convicted before a Court where the Rules of Natural Justice have been applied.

The maximum penalty an Australian State can apply to an individual after conviction is to deprive them of their liberty for a period

Even if the Police have charged with an offence, these kids are innocent in the eyes of the Law and should not have their Liberty deprived without conviction on the say so of one Copper.

You must live in Utopia, where no cop has failed to investigate the matter fully and impartially and identified the alleged offender correctly, is not looking at the Station's KPI's (or even their own), has a personal beef against the alleged offender, is not a racist or sexist sod, is not working to a "round up the usual suspects" mentality and is not corrupt.

Please remember, that every bail hearing before a Court, the Magistrate will weigh all the evidence provided to them on the basis of legislation and Legal precedent.

The Police have representation to present their case in Court and will be able to argue their case for denying bail as will the alleged offender's for being granted bail. The Magistrate will weigh this against legislation and precedent against the fact that the individual is innocent under law and to arbitrarily deny them liberty without sufficent cause undermines the very basis of Australian Law.

Sylvester is pretty much a mouthpiece for Victoria Police, all his rumours and scuttle butt upon which he based his carreer upon eminates from the police or selected crims.

He is not a criminal lawyer. a psychologist, a developmental psychologist, a sociologist or even a criminologist.

He caters for the "angertainment" industry of the Murdoch press and the "shock, horror" fears of the Herald Sun readership

Hey, but if you want vigilantism, the arbitrary arrest and detention of others without conviction and the undermining of Australian laws, go for it after you vote in a representative government at the next election

 

[Sttew]

How about you think about what you're saying before you post?

Under Australian Law (and most Western countries that share a similar legal basis) an individual is considered innocent of the crime(s) they are accused of until they are convicted before a Court where the Rules of Natural Justice have been applied.

The maximum penalty an Australian State can apply to an individual after conviction is to deprive them of their liberty for a period

Even if the Police have charged with an offence, these kids are innocent in the eyes of the Law and should not have their Liberty deprived without conviction on the say so of one Copper.

You must live in Utopia, where no cop has failed to investigate the matter fully and impartially and identified the alleged offender correctly, is not looking at the Station's KPI's (or even their own), has a personal beef against the alleged offender, is not a racist or sexist sod, is not working to a "round up the usual suspects" mentality and is not corrupt.

Please remember, that every bail hearing before a Court, the Magistrate will weigh all the evidence provided to them on the basis of legislation and Legal precedent.

The Police have representation to present their case in Court and will be able to argue their case for denying bail as will the alleged offender's for being granted bail. The Magistrate will weigh this against legislation and precedent against the fact that the individual is innocent under law and to arbitrarily deny them liberty without sufficent cause undermines the very basis of Australian Law.

Sylvester is pretty much a mouthpiece for Victoria Police, all his rumours and scuttle butt upon which he based his carreer upon eminates from the police or selected crims.

He is not a criminal lawyer. a psychologist, a developmental psychologist, a sociologist or even a criminologist.

He caters for the "angertainment" industry of the Murdoch press and the "shock, horror" fears of the Herald Sun readership

Hey, but if you want vigilantism, the arbitrary arrest and detention of others without conviction and the undermining of Australian laws, go for it after you vote in a representative government at the next election

You would know then that bail may be revoked if an accused has not complied with bail conditions or is alleged to have reoffended while on bail?

When a youth reoffends for the 38th time while out on bail your argument is that the presumption of innocence means they should be allowed back on the street to offend again?

At some point the protection of the community needs to be considered and must take precedence. That's why people charged with murder are unlikely to be granted bail.

And lets not pretend the magistrates in Victoria weigh up all the evidence before deciding whether to grant bail to a youth offender. They ask 2 questions - 1) what is the likely penalty if the offender is found guilty? and 2) how long before the charges are heard in court. Obviously if the waiting time for a court hearing is 12 - 18 months, which is about par, and the likely penalty will be a term of months in youth detention, then granting bail is the default solution even though the magistrate will know that in all likelihood the accused will reoffend, just because the court system is stuffed.

BTW, John Sylvester doesn't work for Murdoch Press!

 

[Gralin]

No he works for Costello someone famously without links to the liberal party

 

[Sttew]

No he works for Costello someone famously without links to the liberal party

Oh, so John Sylvester is now a Liberal
Stooge? What the **** does the liberal party have to do with this? Don’t answer because I know you think it’s a fascist conspiracy

 

[Gralin]

Oh, so John Sylvester is now a Liberal
Stooge? What the **** does the liberal party have to do with this? Don’t answer because I know you think it’s a fascist conspiracy

No I'm saying he works for Costello who famously is apolitical

 

[Gough]

Oh, so John Sylvester is now a Liberal
Stooge? What the **** does the liberal party have to do with this? Don’t answer because I know you think it’s a fascist conspiracy

Youth crime is a problem to a bloke who glorified Carl Williams and all those other knuckleheads with his Underbelly series of books? He mustn't be able to make money from it.

 

[JackFlash]

What will Jacinta do about Anzac Day? Will she follow the NSW Premier in losing her mind too? The AFL will absolutely go bonking mad if they lose the Anzac Day game. What will she do? Not only that, the Airport CEO called her out on the rail link issue and agreed to an over ground station, but as we all know down here there is no money for an Airport rail link and i doubt we'll see it this side of 2040?

 

[Jane Doe]

No I'm saying he works for Costello who famously is apolitical

Didn't think you were contributing to this thread anymore given your words of wisdom yesterday.

 

[Jane Doe]

Youth crime is a problem to a bloke who glorified Carl Williams and all those other knuckleheads with his Underbelly series of books? He mustn't be able to make money from it.

You are so rusted on with your political views its hard to take anything you say seriously.

 

[peetoo]

What will Jacinta do about Anzac Day? Will she follow the NSW Premier in losing her mind too? The AFL will absolutely go bonking mad if they lose the Anzac Day game. What will she do? Not only that the Airport CEO called her out on the rail link issue and agreed to an over ground station, but as we all know down here there is no money for an Airport rail link and i doubt we'll see it this side of 2040?

Let the market decide?

 

[The Punter]

Peter Costello is not the Chair of Nine Media at this time. John Sylvester has written for The Age for a very long time.

 

[Sttew]

Youth crime is a problem to a bloke who glorified Carl Williams and all those other knuckleheads with his Underbelly series of books? He mustn't be able to make money from it.

This post is completely irrelevant to discussion on youth crime. That said, I doubt you even know what the premise of Underbelly was?

 

[kalex6251]

if polls are correct were about to witness firsthand a conservative qld state govt implement initiatives to tackle its so-called 'youth crime pandemic' .....

 

[blueboy25]

if polls are correct were about to witness firsthand a conservative qld state govt implement initiatives to tackle its so-called 'youth crime pandemic' .....

Its going to Campbell Newman MkII

 

[Not Important]

Just sums up what a sad joke its become in this state.

separation of powers and all that.

 

[Not Important]

You are so rusted on with your political views its hard to take anything you say seriously.

on the other hand you aren't and we should take you seriously.

 

[Gralin]

Didn't think you were contributing to this thread anymore given your words of wisdom yesterday.

sounds like a comprehension issue on your part