My attitude changed after my home was invaded one night and learning the offenders were on bail for previous crimes. Your attitude might change if this happens to you. I now have 2 extremely traumitised children and a wife. Where is the thought for the victims in this?
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Jacinta Allan - How long can she keep the wool over the populace's eyes
- Thread starter Todman
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Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
I’d expect more from a moderator than this petulant nonsensical response
Really?
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
I haven't heard anyone else come up with a plan, have you? Instead of considering what John Sylvester has to say you dismiss it outright. What's your solution? Tell anyone who disagrees with you to **** off? Call anyone whose view is different to yours a Fascist?
If the repercussions were alot more servere of course it would. These youth criminals know they will get bail at a drop of a hat.
No offence you have your head in the sand if you do not think this is on a lot of peoples minds in this state. The government are finally starting to cotton on to this or is it the focus groups telling them this?
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #1,284
i read it
i dont agree with it
but even more
i don't agree with the media driving a narrative that we are weak on crime and then proposing changes to the criminal system
they aren't experts for starters
why are they trying to direct public policy
why are they pushing to put more kids in jail
why aren't they reporting on the issues that are leading to these problems and pushing the government there
guy writes about crime does not equal guy should be writing policy about crime
Way to have sympathy for the people that didn't commit a crime.
No sorry that it happened to you, I hope your kids are ok, etc. Just sh!t happens, deal with it and please don't think the ones that committed the crime are not victims!
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #1,286
this has been proven false again and again
repercussions are not thought about when crime is going to be committed
if they think they can get away with it, then they will still do it
and that is based on adults who have fully developed prefrontal cortex
if you think kids who don't have that are going to behave in a more risk adverse fashion than adults then you are misguided
"people think this" great I wonder why, we've had years of the media and libs tell them that youth crime is a massive problem, lots of coverage of crimes
years and years of tough on crime is the answer and given its not and isnt working its amazing that people don't question it
but then fear is a powerful motivator and it doesn't really go in for critical thinking
which is why you push fear buttons in the population and then get them to agree to laws that could be used on them to "keep them safe"
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
I don't get what you don't agree with. Is the court system backlogged? Do we have enough magistrates? Is this why repeat offenders are getting out on bail only to reoffend?
Tell me who knows more about crime in Victoria than John Sylvester? Name names! It's not anyone in the Government. Maybe Police, but the most senior Police will tell you there is no more respected crime journalist than JS.
Why shouldn't he have an opinion and why shouldn't we listen to what he has to say? The government is showing very little appetite for seriously doing anything to improve the situation. It takes a road fatality for the the penny to finally drop.
You've told us to **** off and say you disagree with what a John Sylvester has to say. How about Gralin tell us what their solution is?
You are totally unbelievable and not a bit of sympathy towards the victims of these crimes.
Are you aware that a lot of victims of these crimes have trouble returning to their homes? Something you have not addressed in any of your rantings.
So when were bail conditions tough in this state in the last 10 years? Please tell me. I am waiting. Youth criminals know how soft the bail conditions are in this state. To argue otherwise is laughable.
I will say it again. Youth crime is a massive issue in this state. Only people that have there heads in the sand would argue otherwise.
Last edited by a moderator:
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #1,289
none of this addresses the causes of the issue, only the symptoms
not interested this is a useless argument
again cops answer to everything is more cops
i dont give a shit how much you respect this person, that has nothing to do with the fact that a journalist is trying to write policy
anyone can have an opinion, they're like assholes, you can listen to him, that doesn't mean anyone else has to
because the real solution is not something any government wants to deal with
because its things like raising welfare payments
investing into local communities
giving money to people they don't control to work solutions that work for their communities
easily attacked by the opposition and media, and going against pretty much everything every government has said and done for decades and admitting that the reason we are where we are is based on government policy (not on crime, but on pretty much everything else)
no it takes a road fatality for there to be a situation the media can use
money needs to go into programs that get kids out of these sorts of behaviours and situations and that isn't magistrate or cops or bail laws
look up justice reinvestment if you want some ideas
tougher youth bail laws already failed in Queensland btw when they reviewed them a couple of years ago
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #1,290
tough on crime has nothing to do with sympathy for victims or helping victims
its about being seen to be harsher on criminals
it doesn't fix things, it doesn't make people safer, it doesn't help victims of crime, it doesn't help kids not offend or re offend
the purpose of bringing up the impact on victims is to justify the punishment being asked for
its eye for an eye mentality and it doesn't fix anything
courts don't prosecute for the victims either, its not about getting justice, its not about making things better for anyone
its about making things worse for people that did something illegal
yes actions have consequences and the impact can be lifelong for the victim of a crime
that to me does not justify what the courts do, its just creating more trauma and damage, making things worse for everyone
So we should just ignore the victims?
Do you want people victoms of crime banding together and becoming vigilantes?
There has to be consequences for peoples actions and at the moment there is none. The only people that are suffering are the victims of these crimes. I am tipping if a member of the legal system was a victims things would change. No one is arguing for "an eye for an eye mentality" all people want are sufficent penalties for people that committ these crimes.
You also played the racism card before which is laughable. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Try walking in the shoes of one of these victims of these crimes.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
When the 17 year old VCE student who was driving the stolen car that killed the 26 year old Burwood man was asked by Police why he breached bail and went on the run his response was something to the effect he thought the curfew imposed on his was unreasonable...
His behaviour is merely a symptom of capitalism. <sarcasm font off>
the right are getting bolshie lately
you would be forgiven for thinking a liberal leadership spill is in the offing ...... with a tough on crime candidate to emerge from the rabble that is the vic liberal opposition ..... someone who can satisfy the demands of the religious terrorists that lurk on the extreme right of the party with .................
......... steve price's readership and rebecca judds social media following
you would be forgiven for thinking a liberal leadership spill is in the offing ...... with a tough on crime candidate to emerge from the rabble that is the vic liberal opposition ..... someone who can satisfy the demands of the religious terrorists that lurk on the extreme right of the party with .................
......... steve price's readership and rebecca judds social media following
