Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

[TheBlue]

So it’s the vibe of it? Is that you Denis Denuto?

What? Try reading some of the literature and precedential case law I've discussed if you're genuinely interested, it's clearly not the vibe and its a very interesting legal topic for consideration. If not then that's ok but you don't need to respond for the sake of responding - I'm not really weighing in on whatever debate you're having with other people about Carlton and Gold Coast bickering with each other.

 

[manang magoos]

I couldn’t be any clearer with my opinion or the reasons I have given for forming it. I can understand Blues fans’ disappointment - missing on Papley and now this with Martin. As a Melbourne supporter I would’ve liked to snag Martin too but can understand what the Suns are doing here. The goalposts have indeed shifted up on the Gold Coast. Re-drafting Jack Martin is a game changer for them and the shot in the arm they need. This will become apparent in time if it’s not already starting to dawn on you all already.

I’m so sure of what I’m saying that I will take up that challenge issued by a Blues supporter earlier to close my BigFooty account if I’m wrong. I won’t even ask that he do the same in return when my prediction comes to pass. A little respect would be nice, though.

This is all I have to offer this thread for now. Cheers.

Oh thank god for that

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

That's when he will request another trade to get another front loaded contract. Playing you like a fiddle.

Last player that tried to do that to us was Gibbs. Worked out well.

 

[Monkey King]

Not entirely true, if Martin ends up back in the GC you can bet uncontracted players will think twice before nominating Carlton in the future.

The whole PSD situation plus missing on Papley would have a major negative impact on their reputation amongst players in the league.

Daniher didn’t get to the Swans, or Kelly to WCE last year, or Gibbs to the Crows in 2017 etc. Not at all a hen’s tooth outcome in and of itself. The only thing that would have a “major negative impact” would be if Carlton were perceived to have mishandled their end and certainly, that’s not been indicated for a second, with player managers going out of their way to praise the Blues handling of each situation.

Much to opposition supporters chagrin it seems, Carlton simply can’t suffer a net loss in this scenario.

 

[HARKER]

I couldn’t be any clearer with my opinion or the reasons I have given for forming it. I can understand Blues fans’ disappointment - missing on Papley and now this with Martin. As a Melbourne supporter I would’ve liked to snag Martin too but can understand what the Suns are doing here. The goalposts have indeed shifted up on the Gold Coast. Re-drafting Jack Martin is a game changer for them and the shot in the arm they need. This will become apparent in time if it’s not already starting to dawn on you all already.
I’m so sure of what I’m saying that I will take up that challenge issued by a Blues supporter earlier to close my BigFooty account if I’m wrong. I won’t even ask that he do the same in return when my prediction comes to pass. A little respect would be nice, though.

This is all I have to offer this thread for now. Cheers.

Yes, respect. It's generally wise to gain respect, than to ask for it.
Doesn't seem to me that you're garnering much of it, therefore you may have the issue given your request.

Redrafting Martin would be a game-changer for Gold Coast, you say?
How so? Treating players with legitimate reasons to leave, with disdain and as a leverage for political purposes paints them in a good colour?
Faux bravado on the back of being afforded so much 'help' from the AFL, the Gold Coast are drunk on their own juices. What a way to run a club.

 

[irish]

if carlton pay that much for an under achiever who has produced bugger all then they are mad

 

[HARKER]

if carlton pay that much for an under achiever who has produced bugger all then they are mad

Carlton are willing to pay what they think they'll get out of Martin in the future.
Gold Coast have paid a similar amount for a player that didn't want to be there previously and certainly doesn't want to be there now.

Carlton may be mad taking that considered gamble but what does Gold Coast then?

 

[Skull Face]

That's when he will request another trade to get another front loaded contract. Playing you like a fiddle.

But he will be contracted and hold no power

 

[Skull Face]

Well, you are overpaying him, I think everyone including Carlton fans acknowledge this.

Comprehension not your strong suit, that wasn't the question.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Not entirely true, if Martin ends up back in the GC you can bet uncontracted players will think twice before nominating Carlton in the future.

The whole PSD situation plus missing on Papley would have a major negative impact on their reputation amongst players in the league.

LOL wishful thinking from the most anonymous club in the AFL.
Sydney, Papley's management and Martin's management have all praised Carlton's team for their professionalism.
Dodoro blocked Daniher, and Papley by extension. Annoying sure, but within his rights to do.
Cochrane is the only blowhard here. Even his recruiters privately apologised for being overruled on a deal they themselves agreed to.

Even if your little fantasy came true, they still won't want to go to Norf.

 

[David C]

Comprehension not your strong suit, that wasn't the question.

So you agree you are overpaying him then.

 

[jezzajay]

Not entirely true, if Martin ends up back in the GC you can bet uncontracted players will think twice before nominating Carlton in the future.

The whole PSD situation plus missing on Papley would have a major negative impact on their reputation amongst players in the league.

Clearly everyone but you understand the Papley trade and why it didn't happen.

 

[Opine]

So you agree you are overpaying him then.

In your opinion, was he being paid far more reasonably during his time at GCS?

 

[GatesOfHell]

Yes, respect. It's generally wise to gain respect, than to ask for it.
Doesn't seem to me that you're garnering much of it, therefore you may have the issue given your request.

Redrafting Martin would be a game-changer for Gold Coast, you say?
How so? Treating players with legitimate reasons to leave, with disdain and as a leverage for political purposes paints them in a good colour?
Faux bravado on the back of being afforded so much 'help' from the AFL, the Gold Coast are drunk on their own juices. What a way to run a club.

Hi. I thought I was done here but I’ll do you the courtesy of answering your questions.

1. Redrafting Martin would be a game-changer for Gold Coast, you say?

Yes, I did say that.

2. How so?

Players, player managers and raiding clubs will officially be put on notice. “Unless the cards are stacked in our favour our players will remain Suns (if contracted) or be walked into the minefields of the various drafts, potentially to be re-drafted by us or at the very least by bottom six clubs.”

3. Treating players with legitimate reasons to leave, with disdain and as a leverage for political purposes paints them in a good colour?

Anyone who has ever wanted out of the Suns has had a “legitimate reason to leave”. Short of a serious mental health issue or a dying family member, sorry to say that’s not going to cut it anymore for the Suns. And spare me with this “treating with disdain” nonsense. He’s a 25yo about to get paid $650k a season to play professional footy. He’ll live. And as far as “leverage for political purposes” is concerned, I’m sure GC are worried less about how Carlton supporters view them and more about retaining their players and actually surviving as a football club beyond the next decade.

Faux bravado is a thing but only if you don’t actually carry out your threats.

Respectfully.

 

[Opine]

Hi. I thought I was done here but I’ll do you the courtesy of answering your questions.

1. Redrafting Martin would be a game-changer for Gold Coast, you say?

Yes, I did say that.

2. How so?

Players, player managers and raiding clubs will officially be put on notice. “Unless the cards are stacked in our favour our players will remain Suns (if contracted) or be walked into the minefields of the various drafts, potentially to be re-drafted by us or at the very least by bottom six clubs.”

3. Treating players with legitimate reasons to leave, with disdain and as a leverage for political purposes paints them in a good colour?

Anyone who has ever wanted out of the Suns has had a “legitimate reason to leave”. Short of a serious mental health issue or a dying family member, sorry to say that’s not going to cut it anymore for the Suns. And spare me with this “treating with disdain” nonsense. He’s a 25yo about to get paid $650k a season to play professional footy. He’ll live. And as far as “leverage for political purposes” is concerned, I’m sure GC are worried less about how Carlton supporters view them and more about retaining their players and actually surviving as a football club beyond the next decade.

Faux bravado is a thing but only if you don’t actually carry out your threats.

Respectfully.

A majority of your post is rhetorical nonsense. But it makes great reading nonetheless. Welcome back GOH

 

[manang magoos]

if carlton pay that much for an under achiever who has produced bugger all then they are mad

Hi. I thought I was done here but I’ll do you the courtesy of answering your questions.

1. Redrafting Martin would be a game-changer for Gold Coast, you say?

Yes, I did say that.

2. How so?

Players, player managers and raiding clubs will officially be put on notice. “Unless the cards are stacked in our favour our players will remain Suns (if contracted) or be walked into the minefields of the various drafts, potentially to be re-drafted by us or at the very least by bottom six clubs.”

3. Treating players with legitimate reasons to leave, with disdain and as a leverage for political purposes paints them in a good colour?

Anyone who has ever wanted out of the Suns has had a “legitimate reason to leave”. Short of a serious mental health issue or a dying family member, sorry to say that’s not going to cut it anymore for the Suns. And spare me with this “treating with disdain” nonsense. He’s a 25yo about to get paid $650k a season to play professional footy. He’ll live. And as far as “leverage for political purposes” is concerned, I’m sure GC are worried less about how Carlton supporters view them and more about retaining their players and actually surviving as a football club beyond the next decade.

Faux bravado is a thing but only if you don’t actually carry out your threats.

Respectfully.

Well you are a lier as you said you wouldn’t be back so I don’t believe anything you say you can respectfully now stay away

 

[manang magoos]

if carlton pay that much for an under achiever who has produced bugger all then they are mad

Ah Chee anyone

 

[HARKER]

Hi. I thought I was done here but I’ll do you the courtesy of answering your questions.

1. Redrafting Martin would be a game-changer for Gold Coast, you say?

Yes, I did say that.

2. How so?

Players, player managers and raiding clubs will officially be put on notice. “Unless the cards are stacked in our favour our players will remain Suns (if contracted) or be walked into the minefields of the various drafts, potentially to be re-drafted by us or at the very least by bottom six clubs.”

3. Treating players with legitimate reasons to leave, with disdain and as a leverage for political purposes paints them in a good colour?

Anyone who has ever wanted out of the Suns has had a “legitimate reason to leave”. Short of a serious mental health issue or a dying family member, sorry to say that’s not going to cut it anymore for the Suns. And spare me with this “treating with disdain” nonsense. He’s a 25yo about to get paid $650k a season to play professional footy. He’ll live. And as far as “leverage for political purposes” is concerned, I’m sure GC are worried less about how Carlton supporters view them and more about retaining their players and actually surviving as a football club beyond the next decade.

Faux bravado is a thing but only if you don’t actually carry out your threats.

Respectfully.

Hang on -

2. Every club gets raided to some degree. It's not the players fault that the culture at GC isn't particularly good.
Maybe Cochrane could spend a little more time getting to grips with this, than going to the AFL cap in hand for handouts.
Of course the AFL will bend over backwards for their baby, but this isn't fixing any more serious problems.

3. I don't think you see the bigger picture here. GC have backed themselves into a terrible corner; Can't let the player go for nothing, yet shouldn't be holding onto a player that just doesn't want to be there. This isn't a situation alike Gibbs, Papley and even Daniher where the player wanted to get somewhere, but understood should they not, regardless of upset they may have been at the time as their club genuinely wanted them and didn't play games with them.
Martin is a pawn in Cochranes ego-game and I bet it's not all about Gold Coast as it is about Cochrane. This is a dangerous territory.

 

[GatesOfHell]

Hang on -

2. Every club gets raided to some degree. It's not the players fault that the culture at GC isn't particularly good.
Maybe Cochrane could spend a little more time getting to grips with this, than going to the AFL cap in hand for handouts.
Of course the AFL will bend over backwards for their baby, but this isn't fixing any more serious problems.

3. I don't think you see the bigger picture here. GC have backed themselves into a terrible corner; Can't let the player go for nothing, yet shouldn't be holding onto a player that just doesn't want to be there. This isn't a situation alike Gibbs, Papley and even Daniher where the player wanted to get somewhere, but understood should they not, regardless of upset they may have been at the time as their club genuinely wanted them and didn't play games with them.
Martin is a pawn in Cochranes ego-game and I bet it's not all about Gold Coast as it is about Cochrane. This is a dangerous territory.

It is dangerous territory I’ll agree with you there. Brinkmanship I believe it’s called.

It’s less about Cochrane’s ego than the GC organisation simply not being able to afford to bluff this time. If they cave on Martin it’s all over for them. Next Lukosius, then Anderson, then Rankine, then ... you get the drift.

Retain players at all costs or die. That’s the equation now for them.

 

[HARKER]

It is dangerous territory I’ll agree with you there. Brinkmanship I believe it’s called.

It’s less about Cochrane’s ego than the GC organisation simply not being able to afford to bluff this time. If they cave on Martin it’s all over for them. Next Lukosius, then Anderson, then Rankine, then ... you get the drift.

Retain players at all costs or die. That’s the equation now for them.

The recruiters didn't see it as a cave-in taking a second plus a third and the industry in general saw it as a fair trade.
Of course it's the clubs prerogative to value as they please, but I think we have a good idea what all this is about.

Hell, I picked it before the trade period started.
Gold Coast probably received more gifts that they even thought possible and Cochrane became Superman.
Should Carlton get Martin, I look forward to seeing Superman turn back to Clark Kent.

 

[Monkey King]

if carlton pay that much for an under achiever who has produced bugger all then they are mad

If $600k is too much to pay, then wanting dibs on a top 10 pick for him was definitely asking too much.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Not sure if this is been put forward in this thread but a Suns poster on our board highlighted a comment that may allow Blues fans to understand why the Suns felt the deal offered was sub par.

the statement is, would Blues fans feel that a 2nd and 3rd round pick in a compromised draft was enough for an out of contract Jacob Weitering?

Martin has better stats in almost every category and is still young, both were No 1 picks. They play different positions but it would be fair to say neither has lived up to expectations. If your answer is no then perhaps you can start to understand why the Suns have played hard ball.

FWIW I think he will end up at Carlton and not too many Suns fans are unhappy to see the back of him. Enjoy

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Not sure if this is been put forward in this thread but a Suns poster on our board highlighted a comment that may allow Blues fans to understand why the Suns felt the deal offered was sub par.

the statement is, would Blues fans feel that a 2nd and 3rd round pick in a compromised draft was enough for an out of contract Jacob Weitering?

Martin has better stats in almost every category and is still young, both were No 1 picks. They play different positions but it would be fair to say neither has lived up to expectations. If your answer is no then perhaps you can start to understand why the Suns have played hard ball.

FWIW I think he will end up at Carlton and not too many Suns fans are unhappy to see the back of him. Enjoy

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHHAHA

 

[Kangas_11]

LOL wishful thinking from the most anonymous club in the AFL.
Sydney, Papley's management and Martin's management have all praised Carlton's team for their professionalism.
Dodoro blocked Daniher, and Papley by extension. Annoying sure, but within his rights to do.
Cochrane is the only blowhard here. Even his recruiters privately apologised for being overruled on a deal they themselves agreed to.

Even if your little fantasy came true, they still won't want to go to Norf.

Lol, my club has nothing to do with it, so no idea what your point is there.

In the end, you haven't sorted out deals for 2x players that nominated Carlton. Players aren't dumb, they won't pick teams that can't get deals done.

 

[Robertio]

Not sure if this is been put forward in this thread but a Suns poster on our board highlighted a comment that may allow Blues fans to understand why the Suns felt the deal offered was sub par.

the statement is, would Blues fans feel that a 2nd and 3rd round pick in a compromised draft was enough for an out of contract Jacob Weitering?

Martin has better stats in almost every category and is still young, both were No 1 picks. They play different positions but it would be fair to say neither has lived up to expectations. If your answer is no then perhaps you can start to understand why the Suns have played hard ball.

FWIW I think he will end up at Carlton and not too many Suns fans are unhappy to see the back of him. Enjoy

Weitering going along very nicely for a 21 year old key defender, not a good match up.