Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

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There are no grounds for a legal challenge. Period.

Gillon will be supporting any GC Suns decision that enhances their capacity to retain players into the future. Mark Evans has been installed by City Hall to oversee this harder line policy in concert with Cochrane.

Carlton’s interests in the matter carry no weight.
There's actually a substantial dearth of academic material precisely on the legal status of AFL trading practices vis-a-vis the Trade Practices Act and a whole host of precedent case law (Adamson v NSWRL; R v FCA ex parte WANFL; Hughes v WACA and so on). The question is whether a challenge would succeed. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the corporations power, the characterisation of the AFL as a corporation (see: Adamson) the TPA and the legal considerations that flow therefrom but this quote from Chadwick (when he was writing about Ben Cousins' exclusion from the AFL!) nicely sums it up:

"In professional sport, there are a number of agreements and undertakings that impose conditions that operate as a restraint of trade. Many of these restraints are necessary and reasonable, some more tenuous to the proper administration of the sport. The general issue in determining whether a restraint of trade in sport is reasonable or not, involves a balancing of the interests of the sport...against the adverse effects on the player (such as lost income)."

I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly claim that there are no grounds for legal challenge on that basis - rather, I think any challenge to a PSD system that prevents an uncontracted free agent from freely determining area of the country he is permitted to work in (let alone what specific company - i.e. football club - he works for) would be very heavily scrutinised by the courts. The most closely analogous case is Adamson v NSWRL (1991) which related to the NRL's ‘internal draft’ (much like the PSD) which players submitted themselves to on certain salary terms and conditions - i.e. they had no freedom to choose beyond these terms who they were working for despite being uncontracted. These NSWRL drafting laws were unanimously struck down by the FCA and that's why the NRL trading system is drastically different from the AFL's. I hope you can appreciate how similar the old NRL trading practices are to the AFL's current ones (Davies actually wrote an article in 2006 about how the AFL had to introduce free agency in order to mitigate the chances of a potential legal challenge - which they did introduce but on a restricted basis 6 years later).

So really, there are actually considerable grounds for a legal challenge and Gil would be desperate to avoid these matters going to court. It is largely for these reasons that very few players have to go through entering the PSD while out of contract, primarily because it is in the AFL's and clubs' best interests to keep players from resorting to legal challenge.

Finally, I never suggested Carlton's interests are of any import and I would love to see this matter go to court - it would be thoroughly intriguing and would bear heavily upon a lot of the academic literature around constitutional corporations powers and professional sports practices. My point though, is that it won't go to court because Gil won't let it and because Gold Coast, Evans and Cochrane do what Gil says.
 
Retaining Martin helps them to retain those players. Martin will be on marginally higher money than he was on previously. It won’t hamper the Suns’ ability to pay others.
So, freedom of player movement will be suspended on the GC until they themselves decide its in their interests to open the gates; is that the general idea in your commentary?
 
There's actually a substantial dearth of academic material precisely on the legal status of AFL trading practices vis-a-vis the Trade Practices Act and a whole host of precedent case law (Adamson v NSWRL; R v FCA ex parte WANFL; Hughes v WACA and so on). The question is whether a challenge would succeed. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the corporations power, the characterisation of the AFL as a corporation (see: Adamson) the TPA and the legal considerations that flow therefrom but this quote from Chadwick (when he was writing about Ben Cousins' exclusion from the AFL!) nicely sums it up:

"In professional sport, there are a number of agreements and undertakings that impose conditions that operate as a restraint of trade. Many of these restraints are necessary and reasonable, some more tenuous to the proper administration of the sport. The general issue in determining whether a restraint of trade in sport is reasonable or not, involves a balancing of the interests of the sport...against the adverse effects on the player (such as lost income)."

I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly claim that there are no grounds for legal challenge on that basis - rather, I think any challenge to a PSD system that prevents an uncontracted free agent from freely determining area of the country he is permitted to work in (let alone what specific company - i.e. football club - he works for) would be very heavily scrutinised by the courts. The most closely analogous case is Adamson v NSWRL (1991) which related to the NRL's ‘internal draft’ (much like the PSD) which players submitted themselves to on certain salary terms and conditions - i.e. they had no freedom to choose beyond these terms who they were working for despite being uncontracted. These NSWRL drafting laws were unanimously struck down by the FCA and that's why the NRL trading system is drastically different from the AFL's. I hope you can appreciate how similar the old NRL trading practices are to the AFL's current ones (Davies actually wrote an article in 2006 about how the AFL had to introduce free agency in order to mitigate the chances of a potential legal challenge - which they did introduce but on a restricted basis 6 years later).

So really, there are actually considerable grounds for a legal challenge and Gil would be desperate to avoid these matters going to court. It is largely for these reasons that very few players have to go through entering the PSD while out of contract, primarily because it is in the AFL's and clubs' best interests to keep players from resorting to legal challenge.

Finally, I never suggested Carlton's interests are of any import and I would love to see this matter go to court - it would be thoroughly intriguing and would bear heavily upon a lot of the academic literature around constitutional corporations powers and professional sports practices. My point though, is that it won't go to court because Gil won't let it and because Gold Coast, Evans and Cochrane do what Gil says.

So it’s the vibe of it? Is that you Denis Denuto?
 

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Gillon will be supporting any GC Suns decision that enhances their capacity to retain players into the future. Mark Evans has been installed by City Hall to oversee this harder line policy in concert with Cochrane.

Carlton’s interests in the matter carry no weight.

I actually agree on this aspect of the post. We shouldn’t underestimate the AFL’s willingness to shamelessly change the goalposts to benefit their ‘special needs’ club.
 
So, freedom of player movement will be suspended on the GC until they themselves decide its in their interests to open the gates; is that the general idea in your commentary?

Players do not enjoy full freedom of choice or movement under the AFL system. It’s not an open, unrestricted marketplace. Had you not noticed that before? Watch the draft on Nov 27. A bunch of 18yo’s will be told which clubs they will be playing for. No say in it. No choice. Same goes for those who enter the PSD shortly thereafter. It’s not that hard.
 
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LOL! Jesus.

Opinion on Martin + opinion on McGovern = “YOU HAVE A HISTORY THERE!”
McGovern was dropped this year because he was fat and unfit. On well over half a million bucks and he can’t control what goes into his mouth.

Glad you thought he lived up to expectations. Worth every cent eh?
 
Retaining Martin helps them to retain those players. Martin will be on marginally higher money than he was on previously. It won’t hamper the Suns’ ability to pay others.

If re-drafting someone who has is un-contracted, who wanted out for over 12 months and who has given 6 years to the club doesn't signal great motivational team-building culture, then i don't know what does. If the Suns re-draft him, 17 AFL clubs are laughing, 40 odd players are wondering why they aren't being paid $1mil to play in 2020 and 2020 considering they actually want to be at the place and Gil likely has a legal challenge on his hands.


As opposed to simply letting go and building a club and culture of players who actually want to be there, who can hopefully achieve some success and quell the folding and moving to Tassie chanting.
 
Players do not enjoy full freedom of choice or movement under the AFL system. It’s not an open, unrestricted marketplace. Had you not noticed that before? Watch the draft on Nov 27. A bunch of 18yo’s will be told which clubs they will be playing for. No say in it. No choice. Same goes for those who enter the PSD shortly thereafter. It’s not that hard.

It's not slave labour, players cannot willingly be traded without consent. Rightly or wrongly, they have far more control of their destiny these days than the clubs.
 
It's not slave labour, players cannot willingly be traded without consent. Rightly or wrongly, they have far more control of their destiny these days than the clubs.

Not as much control as they thought they had, evidently. We are witnessing a recalibration of this power imbalance.
 
Players do not enjoy full freedom of movement under the AFL system. Had you not noticed that before? Watch the draft on Nov 27. A bunch of 18yo’s will be told which clubs they will be playing for. No say in it. No freedom to choose. Same goes for those who enter the PSD shortly thereafter. It’s not that hard.
I’m a bit slow on the uptake. Be patient with me Einstein.

Is the AFL in any way subject to obligations applicable to other entities and persons: or is it an entity completely unto itself?
 
The questions I asked you weren’t arbitrary. Can you answer without referring me to some article.

I couldn’t be any clearer with my opinion or the reasons I have given for forming it. I can understand Blues fans’ disappointment - missing on Papley and now this with Martin. As a Melbourne supporter I would’ve liked to snag Martin too but can understand what the Suns are doing here. The goalposts have indeed shifted up on the Gold Coast. Re-drafting Jack Martin is a game changer for them and the shot in the arm they need. This will become apparent in time if it’s not already starting to dawn on you all already.

I’m so sure of what I’m saying that I will take up that challenge issued by a Blues supporter earlier to close my BigFooty account if I’m wrong. I won’t even ask that he do the same in return when my prediction comes to pass. A little respect would be nice, though.

This is all I have to offer this thread for now. Cheers.
 
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I couldn’t be any clearer with opinion or the reasons I have given for forming it. I can understand Blues fans’ disappointment - missing on Papley and now this with Martin. As a Melbourne supporter I would’ve liked to snag Martin too but can understand what the Suns are doing here. The goalposts have indeed shifted up on the Gold Coast. Re-drafting Jack Martin is a game changer for them and the shot in the arm they need. This will become apparent in time if it’s not already starting to dawn on you all already.

I’m so sure of what I’m saying that I will take up that challenge issued by a Blues supporter earlier to close my BigFooty account if I’m wrong. I won’t even ask that he do the same in return when my prediction comes to pass. A little respect would be nice, though.

This is all I have to offer this thread for now. Cheers.

If the Suns pay Martin 1mil+ over the next 2 years and he doesn't even want to be there, Carlton fans will be laughing at the Suns with 16 other clubs though.

Absolutely nothing has been lost in regards to Martin for Carlton.
Regardless of what happens in the PSD it's a win for Carlton and a loss for the Suns.
 

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Absolutely nothing has been lost in regards to Martin for Carlton.

And that’s the rub. At this point for Carlton, there’s nothing to lose. Neutral or positive is the game for them. They either draft Martin and get him for nothing “yay”, or GCS redraft him and nothing changes from the end of the season; the top 10 pick brings another young talent into the club and they move forward as if this never happened.

GCS’ is a different position, with either outcome sub-par. Either recruit a mid-career player against his will who clearly doesn’t want to be there; or the list loses a player they rated highly (I’d say overrated) for zero compensation.
 
There are no grounds for a legal challenge. Period.

Gillon will be supporting any GC Suns decision that enhances their capacity to retain players into the future. Mark Evans has been installed by City Hall to oversee this harder line policy in concert with Cochrane.

Carlton’s interests in the matter carry no weight.

Absolutely Wrong.

It’s Martin that can make the legal challenge (not Carlton).

However, would be extremely surprised if that happened, by him or any other player in a similar position.

At the end of the day, these guys want to play football in the AFL. So why challenge the hand that feeds you?


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Absolutely Wrong.

It’s Martin that can make the legal challenge (not Carlton).

However, would be extremely surprised if that happened, by him or any other player in a similar position.

At the end of the day, these guys want to play football in the AFL. So why challenge the hand that feeds you?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
AFL rule 22 already seems to provide a first instance mechanism for a player, with a club as joinder if desired, to apply to the AFL’s Appeals Board for release from the club that‘s selected him at an AFL draft, within 14 days of having been selected; on the ground that there are exceptional and compelling circumstances which make it harsh and unconscionable for that Player to remain bound to that club.
 
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Get your numbers right. It’s $650k a year over the 5 years of the contract. Slightly overs but manageable when you account for inflationary pressures on AFL player wages over a half decade.

As a business decision it’s okay. It’s the ripple effect on the organisation and its standing among rival clubs which makes it a no-brainer.

Please do bookmark my posts. Looking forward to fielding apologies.
Oh it was different before when you were saying why would Carlton overpay him in first year to get him but the way you say it now it’s all good for Gold Coast to redraft him.
Me thinks you are one bitter individual and want GoldCoast to redraft him because he is flat out rejecting your club
 
And that’s the rub. At this point for Carlton, there’s nothing to lose. Neutral or positive is the game for them.
Not entirely true, if Martin ends up back in the GC you can bet uncontracted players will think twice before nominating Carlton in the future.

The whole PSD situation plus missing on Papley would have a major negative impact on their reputation amongst players in the league.
 
So we will have him on 350k a year from 2022 when all our kids want a pay rise, freeing up 650k cap space without lifting a finger.

Quick someone call the club and tell them such logical front loading of contracts to bank space for the growth years is a dumb idea.
That's when he will request another trade to get another front loaded contract. Playing you like a fiddle.
 

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Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

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