Defacto
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great post mate. you raise a very good point
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]
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great post mate. you raise a very good point
Defacto
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and if he doesnt? what then for essendon?
doona
SMFC
Can't see you guys caving. Any club would think a first rounder or nothing.
You could cave for 17, but not what's offered so....
Defacto
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hilarious stuff. never before has this happened and i cant see you starting now. also what then for the berg?
I'd be fine with 24 + Templeton.
Simply not true!!
Essendon have lost Jake. He's gone. Done. If they lose out and he walks then they lose a pick. If it's a pick in the 20's then, in this draft, it doesn't hold that much weight. A pick in the 20's in this draft is worth one in the 40's in a normal year. So if Essendon lose out they're basically losing a pick in the 40's for a normal year. Third rounder. That's how they are seeing it.
The Saints recognise they need a player of Jake's ability. They know they do and they are working toward getting one. If they miss on Jake then they have two problems. Firstly, that they've failed to secure him.... and secondly that they've failed to secure someone else in his absence. If the Saints recognise they have a hole and do not fill it, that's potentially quite a significant problem.
So this thing about spikes and mattresses is crap. Really, both teams have nothing to win and nothing to lose. Jake is worth about 10 but the Saints don't have that. So they need to either give overs or try and do some wheeling and dealing to end up with a later pick.
I'd be happy with 24 and templeton
If Saints had anything worth giving they'd be winning finals and wouldn't need Jake.
We send a message to the competition that you deal with us, or you lose your boy. I am okay with that message going out.
Trojan_Saint
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bltn
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We don't have to "take what we can get" at all !
We could open up discussions with Carlton about Pick 19, and perhaps a player we rate (like Touey).
They may jump on that given the state of their KP stocks ATM.
We could open up discussions with the Bulldogs, who would gladly give up Pick 11 for a ready made KP defender.
They don't have anywhere near the Cap space the Saints do, but if we were to pay a portion of Jake's salary for a couple of seasons, and in return they also package up a player surplus to their needs (Hrovat) as a gesture of good will, that would easily trump what the a Saints appear to be offering.
Don't forget, Carlisle has NO affinity to the St.Kilda FC, he simply chose a Melbourne club that was offering the most money.
If we could assist another side in reaching Jake's pay demands, I'm sure he could be talked around thru his manager.
If worse comes to worse, and he goes PSD to Carlton, then at least we have sent a message to the competition, that we won't be walked over in future trade negotiations.
It worked quite well for Port Power with Nick Stevens, and then the Burgoyne negotiations several years later.
Even with the last option (Carlton in the PSD), we may still obtain a handy consolation prize of Aish in the PSD.
Don't assume that we won't explore some of these options, if the Saints continue to believe that a crapola Pick in the high teens (or worse) will get it done.
Personally, I think it should be.....
Carlisle and our 2nd Rounder
for
Pick 5 and your 3rd Rounder
We could open up discussions with Carlton about Pick 19, and perhaps a player we rate (like Touey).
They may jump on that given the state of their KP stocks ATM.
We could open up discussions with the Bulldogs, who would gladly give up Pick 11 for a ready made KP defender.
They don't have anywhere near the Cap space the Saints do, but if we were to pay a portion of Jake's salary for a couple of seasons, and in return they also package up a player surplus to their needs (Hrovat) as a gesture of good will, that would easily trump what the a Saints appear to be offering.
Don't forget, Carlisle has NO affinity to the St.Kilda FC, he simply chose a Melbourne club that was offering the most money.
If we could assist another side in reaching Jake's pay demands, I'm sure he could be talked around thru his manager.
If worse comes to worse, and he goes PSD to Carlton, then at least we have sent a message to the competition, that we won't be walked over in future trade negotiations.
It worked quite well for Port Power with Nick Stevens, and then the Burgoyne negotiations several years later.
Even with the last option (Carlton in the PSD), we may still obtain a handy consolation prize of Aish in the PSD.
Don't assume that we won't explore some of these options, if the Saints continue to believe that a crapola Pick in the high teens (or worse) will get it done.
Personally, I think it should be.....
Carlisle and our 2nd Rounder
for
Pick 5 and your 3rd Rounder
- Aug 27, 2013
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May get shot down but worth seeing opinions on it. Saints send Carlton 5 for Geelongs 1st rounder next year and 17/20/21(whatever we get for bell and or casboult). Saints ontrade Geelongs first rounder(likely 9-14) for Carlisle because you essendon supporters wont stop complaining about the talent in this years draft. Saints still get a late first rounder or early second.
SAINTS GIVE: 5
RECIEVE: Carlisle & 17/20/21
DONS GIVE: Carlisle
RECIEVE: 1st Round 2016
BLUES GIVE: 1st Round 2016, 17/20/21
RECIEVE: 5
Would be 2 seperate trades between Blues and Saints then Saints and Dons so no 3rd party
SAINTS GIVE: 5
RECIEVE: Carlisle & 17/20/21
DONS GIVE: Carlisle
RECIEVE: 1st Round 2016
BLUES GIVE: 1st Round 2016, 17/20/21
RECIEVE: 5
Would be 2 seperate trades between Blues and Saints then Saints and Dons so no 3rd party
Done. You let Dodoro know we've sorted this out
Not necessarily if you dont want to part with 5 all you need to do is find another top 10 pick quite simple really.
Is pick 24 and some b grade spud fair compensation? I dont think so. We aint the ones trying to run away like bandiits champ.
I agree. Short term pain for long term gain. If the cost is losing a second rounder, which is worth less than normal in a shallow draft, I'm all for risking it if 5 doesn't come (with or without some sweetener). The message would be - don't come after Zach Merrett or Laverde or Joe D, or whoever, after they get developed, and offer them big bucks and hold a feel-good interview on TV, unless you are going to deal seriously at their value. You will leave them in the lurch, and look a little silly. I'd rather no-one make offers to those guys even if they want to place an appropriate value, but hey it's a market.
On the other side of it, while the short term pain would hurt a little, it would be interesting to see how the saints ended up looking if that played out - we'll talk a high roller's game and entice you kind of players to come to our club, but we'll bring small change and won't place a bet.
And the way the saints seem so obsessed by the value of pick 5 that they wouldn't ever part with such a valuable pick unless they get two solid players for it, they will wonder if it isn't worth more than one skinny kid with no record at the highest level, and the chance of becoming a jack watts. Oh wait...
Pinpoint Pass
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Why would we wait for 1 year to get a pick that is more than likely going to be worse than what we probably will get this year?
Saints receive essentially the same thing many essendon supporters have suggested (our 2nd + Carlisle)
Magpie Monopoly
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If Essendon manage to walk away with pick 5 out of this, they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
Nowhere near worth a pick 5
Nowhere near worth a pick 5
Defacto
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Defacto
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stopped at pick 5. not going to happen
Rack Watts
Here's MASON
Thankfully, Dodoro wouldn't.
Defacto
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couldnt agree more. great post!
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Well they recieve something better seeing as 17/20/21 is lower than your 2nd rounder? Essendon get their middle first round pick that they have stated is his worth and its in a better draft in which youve complained about for 100 pages makes 5 into 7 in a weak draft. Its a win for stkilda because they get a better deal than offered by essendon, its just that you essendon flogs cry every time a scenario doesnt have 5 coming to you.
Where did I cry about our end in that deal? I'd love for us to get a higher pick this year, and can see the cats finishing higher next year, but its around the mark of deals being thrown around (not insane like 2nd round and a 3rd-5th string ruck)
2 pick second round upgrade on a deal saint posters flatly reject.
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