Game Day JLT2 - Carlton vs Collingwood - Monday 11th March 2.10PM @ Morwell - Final Team Post #777

[Eiffel 65]

When you look at the age profile of our midfield, then our ruck stocks, they are totally out of whack (with the exception of TDK).

Should we be be trying to throw a bit of a hail mary to pry Bailey Williams away from WCE. Not the right post to be discussing this stuff, but it is a concern.

Phillips is only 27. Could easily have 5-6 years of good football left in him.

If he plays against Collingwood, I reckon he'll hold his own against Grundy.

 

[skadoosh]

Maybe we felt Kreuzer's 'extra midfielder' attributes were required due to how inexperienced our midfield was over the last few years. But with the emergence and development of our younger mids and their ability to now hold their own, maybe we would value a 'tap to advantage' ruckman higher now. Thoughts?

 

[Opine]

Maybe we felt Kreuzer's 'extra midfielder' attributes were required due to how inexperienced our midfield was over the last few years. But with the emergence and development of our younger mids and their ability to now hold their own, maybe we would value a 'tap to advantage' ruckman higher now. Thoughts?

When one works through, and gets beyond, all the fluff. this is what will remain; precisely what you just wrote.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Maybe we felt Kreuzer's 'extra midfielder' attributes were required due to how inexperienced our midfield was over the last few years. But with the emergence and development of our younger mids and their ability to now hold their own, maybe we would value a 'tap to advantage' ruckman higher now. Thoughts?

Kreuzer is still valuable to us now because a lot of our mids haven't fully developed physically including Walsh, Dow, O'brien, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield etc.

Because we are building a really deep midfield with no shortage of inside players, superior ruck craft will become more valuable to us than grunt work in the coming years.

 

[bmaurizio]

None of Phillips, Lobbe or MK will be part of our next flag. We can not play 2 of the above in the same side as they are inept forward, so they are a waste of a bench rotation

The future is TDK and a ruckman we have yet to acquire

Disagree Arrow reckon Andrew Phillips can take a decant mark, has a reasonable kick and is athletic too, he’s an option up front.

 

[THE_GUN]

Re: Kreuzer v Phillips

Im thinking some of you cant see the forest from the tree's here , Mk is a beast of a ruckman that will give everything for his team and you wont die wondering. Probably only has between 2-4 years being nearly 30 and history of injuries but he just needs to be there for another 2 years until TDK is ready

TDK in the Ruck with McKay as relief is what Carlton should be aiming for but need a developing Ruckman similar to playing style to TDK , Lobbe & Phillips are only stop gap ruckman that are filling a need for now but neither should be looked at long term as they just wont get any better than they have been and their best was not good enough.

Bailey Williams / Sam Hayes should be the players on Carltons shopping list as replacements for Phillips/Lobbe

I agree. Which is why I'll have no issue at end of year if MK moves to a team that is in a premiership window; provided we get reasonable compo.

As a Free Agent the best MK would get from another club is a 2 year deal on perhaps $450k-$500k, As a 30 year old the compo pick would be at the ned of the 2nd round if any at all. He is currently more valuable to Carlton than any other team.

 

[passmark]

In: Obrien, Kruezer, Kennedy
Out: Schumacher, Lobbe, Polson

Did Schu get more than 2 minutes of game time. Haven’t watched the last quarter.

 

[JustaBattler]

If Cripps is going to rest forward for 20-30% of a game as he suggested today - then Kreuzer's physical influence at center bounces and ball ups becomes even more important..TDK may be the future but he has a lot to learn in teh present - and long long way to go before he can match Kreuzer's output today...which is why both Lobbe and Phillips were played - they are playing for who is second choice in my book -

 

[Opine]

Re: Kreuzer v Phillips

As a Free Agent the best MK would get from another club is a 2 year deal on perhaps $450k-$500k, As a 30 year old the compo pick would be at the ned of the 2nd round if any at all. He is currently more valuable to Carlton than any other team.

Until you send a copy of your CFC membership to thylacine60 for validation, we will decide what MK is worth.
In the meantime, please explain your teams attempt at continuing to impede CS space over the weekend against Demons. Your Mob just can't come to terms with the fact that its AFL not NRL. Please comment on your wingman positioning himself at defensive end of CS and then doing nothing more than running across the CS.?

 

[B if i Know]

I've got a slightly different take on the ruck discussion. This new 3x6 rule makes clean centre take away invaluable. Pinch hitters in the ruck might make teams vulnerable....example us v Hawks practice match, no genuine ruckman, we got killed.
I think it's possible to play both MK and AP or Lobbe (prefer AP). The flexibility of our big forwards allows either Ruck to either rest on the bench or spend a few minutes here and there out of the square, saw this happen last Thursday. Curnow can go mid or wing, McGovern back, Harry wing.....allows many other players to rotate through our bench....all the while a competitive genuine ruckman competing for us all the time. Puts the pressure on our opponents....Takes a lot of physical pressure off 1 ruckman doing most of the work. Long season, be great to see these guys play week in/out which they'll have more chance of doing by sharing the load.
Not all teams have 2 genuine rucks let alone 3 and forwards like us. TDK can develop patiently in the VFL....
Our midfield is looking awesome but very young....big strong body in there can only help.
A point of difference maybe....

 

[THE_GUN]

Until you send a copy of your CFC membership to thylacine60 for validation, we will decide what MK is worth.
In the meantime, please explain your teams attempt at continuing to impede CS space over the weekend against Demons. Your Mob just can't come to terms with the fact that its AFL not NRL. Please comment on your wingman positioning himself at defensive end of CS and then doing nothing more than running across the CS.?

Now if i did get into explaining these things you would be the first on here to say , Why the hell are we listening to Richmond crap !

 

[katmanblue]

I've got a slightly different take on the ruck discussion. This new 3x6 rule makes clean centre take away invaluable. Pinch hitters in the ruck might make teams vulnerable....example us v Hawks practice match, no genuine ruckman, we got killed.
I think it's possible to play both MK and AP or Lobbe (prefer AP). The flexibility of our big forwards allows either Ruck to either rest on the bench or spend a few minutes here and there out of the square, saw this happen last Thursday. Curnow can go mid or wing, McGovern back, Harry wing.....allows many other players to rotate through our bench....all the while a competitive genuine ruckman competing for us all the time. Puts the pressure on our opponents....Takes a lot of physical pressure off 1 ruckman doing most of the work. Long season, be great to see these guys play week in/out which they'll have more chance of doing by sharing the load.
Not all teams have 2 genuine rucks let alone 3 and forwards like us. TDK can develop patiently in the VFL....
Our midfield is looking awesome but very young....big strong body in there can only help.
A point of difference maybe....

Fair points, but taking pressure off one area just shifts it to another.

So I guess it comes down to which are mids/ruck can withstand the pressure better.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tjblues]

Popping in to put it out there that 3 good quarters in a pre season game should not be nearly enough evidence to suggest we should replace a man who has given such great service to our footy club for over a decade.
I’m not suggesting for a second we should pick MK based on sentimentality, merely pointing out that he is the only ruckman on our list who has proven he can be right up there with the best in the comp (only 2 years ago), and that if he is fit he should absolutely be given first crack at making that spot his own.

No disrespect to Phillips or Lobbe who I think both played rather well on Thursday night and will provide solid competition for spots should Kreuz not be fit or lose form, I just don’t want to get carried away with a half of JLT

 

[Opine]

Now if i did get into explaining these things you would be the first on here to say , Why the hell are we listening to Richmond crap !

So in other words you have no idea what I'm talking about?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Maybe some of us are slightly missing the point here.

So, in 5 years time when we're hopefully/likely pushing for a spot in the GF, who's gonna be tapping the ball down the throat of our mids?

The Gun has a valid point, Bailey Williams/Sam Hayes should be the players on our shopping list in the absence of a quality ruck in the 22-25yo age bracket who also is handy up forward. Most of these would likely be locked in at their current clubs though. TDK could be our next #1 ruck, but is still only 19.

If we're able to bring in another young ruck, it gives them time to develop while we still have the older hands in Kruez, AP and Lobbe still on our list, and not having to fast track them.

It really doesn't matter who is 'better' out of Kruezer or AP....both will no doubt be missing at times during the year...it's more a matter at the moment of having the bigger, more mature ruck helping to develop our midfield into a competitive unit.

 

[THE_GUN]

So in other words you have no idea what I'm talking about?

Dude im not going to get into a sh!t fight with you here and totally ruin this thread in a pissing contest. But yes you are correct i have absolutely no idea what you are on about and to be perfectly honest dont think many do.

 

[I bleed Blue]

The Gun comes here and contributes well. Personally I like the perspective of someone outside of our supporter base.

Why some people try to always get into a fight with him is beyond me.*

*ive no idea about how he used to post in the past. Only going off he's recent efforts. As far as recently goes there is nothing wrong with his contributions.

 

[Opine]

Dude im not going to get into a sh!t fight with you here and totally ruin this thread in a pissing contest. But yes you are correct i have absolutely no idea what you are on about and to be perfectly honest dont think many do.

Dude,. you come on here, assert that "some"home posters cant "see the forest from the tree's" then when your asked a question you cry "sh t fight. If your gonna play community fracture games, do it your own board. Otherwise take as good as you give without whinging like a shrinking violet.

 

[THE_GUN]

Dude,. you come on here, assert that "some"home posters cant "see the forest from the tree's" then when your asked a question you cry "sh t fight. If your gonna play community fracture games, do it your own board. Otherwise take as good as you give without whinging like a shrinking violet.

Looking like you were the one who had no idea what i was saying but thats ok and i have no issue with that at all, Now seeing as you have not been around for too long around these parts maybe best if we both put each other on ignore and this way you wont need to see what i post and i wont need to reply to you wanting to shoot a shadow

 

[Opine]

Looking like you were the one who had no idea what i was saying but thats ok and i have no issue with that at all, Now seeing as you have not been around for too long around these parts maybe best if we both put each other on ignore and this way you wont need to see what i post and i wont need to reply to you wanting to shoot a shadow

Looking like you have an idea that I have a good idea of the mind game your playing. Now stfu, and ignore to yours hearts content.

 

[B if i Know]

Fair points, but taking pressure off one area just shifts it to another.

So I guess it comes down to which are mids/ruck can withstand the pressure better.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That's right KMB, it all comes down to team balance....what suits and serves us best.
I'm no coach so buggered if I know the answer, but felt it was an option worth considering.

 

[THE_GUN]

[QUOTE="Opine, post: 59747576, member: 191652"]Looking like you have an idea that I have a good idea of the mind game your playing. Now stfu, and ignore to yours hearts content.[/QUOTE]

I really have No idea what you are attempting to say but perhaps Nigel, Nicoletta, and Harlot might be able to explain things a little better

Have a great night

 

[Opine]

[QUOTE="Opine, post: 59747576, member: 191652"]Looking like you have an idea that I have a good idea of the mind game your playing. Now stfu, and ignore to yours hearts content.

I really have No idea what you are attempting to say but perhaps Nigel, Nicoletta, and Harlot might be able to explain things a little better

Have a great night [/QUOTE]

Good night lovely; and leave my cats out of this.

 

[bmaurizio]

Re: Kreuzer v Phillips

Im thinking some of you cant see the forest from the tree's here , Mk is a beast of a ruckman that will give everything for his team and you wont die wondering. Probably only has between 2-4 years being nearly 30 and history of injuries but he just needs to be there for another 2 years until TDK is ready

TDK in the Ruck with McKay as relief is what Carlton should be aiming for but need a developing Ruckman similar to playing style to TDK , Lobbe & Phillips are only stop gap ruckman that are filling a need for now but neither should be looked at long term as they just wont get any better than they have been and their best was not good enough.

Bailey Williams / Sam Hayes should be the players on Carltons shopping list as replacements for Phillips/Lobbe




As a Free Agent the best MK would get from another club is a 2 year deal on perhaps $450k-$500k, As a 30 year old the compo pick would be at the ned of the 2nd round if any at all. He is currently more valuable to Carlton than any other team.

Agree with you re Kreuzer’s grit and determination a great Bagger no doubt, will give all he has. Not an exceptional tap Ruckman but a bull that will split packs and hunt the ball well. Only problem is his continual injuries and maintaining athletic fitness , I think he's only two strong years after 2019 all going very well.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agree with you re Kreuzer’s grit and determination a great Bagger no doubt, will give all he has. Not an exceptional tap Ruckman but a bull that will split packs and hunt the ball well. Only problem is his continual injuries and maintaining athletic fitness , I think he's only two strong years after 2019 all going very well.

I see Nankervis to be a Similar type /style of ruckman to Kreuzer and he did the job for us in '17, Boyd in '16 also similar
Lycett is hardly a world beater and got west coast to the line whilst the Grundy led Pies Jacob led Cows & Naismith/tippett swans failed

A good team can get the job done without a Gun Ruckman