Jordan Russell - Time to cut our losses?

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Dec 18, 2005
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GAVROI MOUNIA... GAMW TON PIRAEA
Hey everyone,

Now, I normally don't like to be a negative poster - and I especially don't like cutting down or being harsh on young players who try hard and have had to do it tough in what has been a struggeling side since 2002 with no real leadership .. and yes its still the early days of season 2008 and our romancing period of having Ratts at the helm and our influx of new recruits is still ongoing, however ....

After watching the replay of the Carlton vs. Freo exhibition match in South Africa, last night - It became apparant to me that surely now, even the most pro-Wayne Hughes fans (Hello Gilly1972 :cool:) must acknowledge that the selection of Jordan Russell at pick #9 in 2004 was a drafting disaster.

In what was retrospectively fairly solid draft - we can at least take solace in the fact that we weren't alone in botching our first round pick: Egan (Collingwood, pick #10), John Meesen (Adelaide, pick #8), Adam Thompson (Port Adelaide, pick #11), Danny Meyer (Richmond, pick #12), Andrew McQualter (St. Kilda, pick #17), Ryan Willits (Port Adelaide, pick #19). However, I beleive that punting on Russell so early in the draft could be the biggest drafting blunder our side has ever made.

Now I know what you're thinking: "But C4, surley selecting Luke Livingston at #4 in 2000 was a bigger disaster, given the output??".

I strongly disagree, on the basis that prior to the 2000 draft - Luke Livingston was an impressive CHF/FF for both Kerang and the Bendigo Pioneers, before we destroyed his career by grooming him to play soley as a defender to account for the loss of Silvagni. Livingstons draft camp results were outstanding and he was highly touted to be a top #5 selection. As far as I'm concerned, no one can throw stones at the decision to select Livingston at #4. Russell however, is a different kettle of fish; on the basis that he was never spoken all that highly of within the SANFL or even pre-draft, Russell was almost a smokey selection, given that he probably would have been available come the 2nd round (again, no one knows for sure).

Russell might have bulked up considerably since his recruitment - however, the fact is - he just cannot play football, and since season 2005 I've yet to see Jordan do anything to even suggest he may make it as a firm contributer (like all first rounder selections should be) to our side. One performance that springs to mind, is his blanketting job on guys like; Luke Power, Brent Harvey (although Harvey still managed to kick 4 goals that game) etc, however, with the emergence of Ryan Jackson from the rookie list and his fantastic efforts on the likes of Robert Harvey, I feel that Jordan's fate has been sealed and his contribution to the side is that as such; i can't even find a place for him on the bench in our 'best line up'.

Whilst a lot of you may think I'm being harsh on him, I will acknowledge that YES: he has had to do it tough in a side with which previously had no leadership, no results and no direction. He's also had to play under a narrowminded game plan devised by a senile old man who refused to beleive that the game had passed him by. However, now even with a new coach and an entirely new game plan along with an influx of class, leadership and prosperity into our beloved club - It is apparant to myself atleast, that Jordan still lacks what it takes to contribute firmly to our side, week in-week out.

Personally, in 2006 when Jordan decided to stay at Carlton, I was quite happy. Back then I felt that he still could add a whole lot to our side, but since then given the changes to our club - I have formed an opinion that unless he has a stand out (or break out) year - come October/November, he will be surplass to requirements.

One school of thought that can be undertaken for those watching Jordan throughout season 2008, is that given the changes to our club; he could be to looked at as a 'new recruit' so to speak, this could be justified by the years under Pagan being wasted years and have little to no impact on his own personal development (besides knowing where the benches were at various grounds).

Would Jordan Russell have come under so much scrutiny if he had been a 2nd/3rd round selection? - who knows ? Would the fact that he looks lost on the ground and has no real set position for our side be overlooked?

But one thing is for sure; I hope the boy proves me wrong. :cool:
 
Fair post C4. No way would I have the bottle to start a thread with that title for fear of retribution, hail, pestilence and many large wart-covered frogs being rained down on me by those in the JR camp.

It is definitely time to quit using the "jury is still out" cliche with this bloke. More than anyone else the he must know he is on his last chance this season. We are building toward a situation where every player has to warrant a position. By years end he will have either nailed down a HFF or nailed down his removal tea-chests (they still use them)?
 
Fair post C4. No way would I have the bottle to start a thread with that title for fear of retribution, hail, pestilence and many large wart-covered frogs being rained down on me by those in the JR camp.

It is definitely time to quit using the "jury is still out" cliche with this bloke. More than anyone else the he must know he is on his last chance this season. We are building toward a situation where every player has to warrant a position. By years end he will have either nailed down a HFF or nailed down his removal tea-chests (they still use them)?
Exactly.

I hope people see this point, and don't label me as a troll who should "give the youngsters a chance".
 

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I saw the game also. He drifts in and out alot. He was named in the best in the Herald Sun. Not sure what game that bloke was watching. He was used as a tagger a bit last year with ok results. Did a good job on Stanton last year. Not sure what his best position though. He looks to have put on some size which is a positive.
 
he gets to play along a few experience midfielders this year, instead of all youth last yr.if he doesnt make anything out of that then maybe it will be his final year at carlton.
Btw Pieffer was good as the other night!!!
 
I agree that the lad needs to start getting the wheels moving and not spinning
BUT
the fact that we are so young as a team, we should not be getting rid of players willy nilly if there is nobody on offer or in the draft that is any better.
I expect a lot of these fringe players will step up this year or next as there is so much to play for. With a lot of these players it will get down to have they the fire in the belly as they all have the skills, youth and athleticism required. Some more so than others.
Lets wait and see. It was disappointing at the end of last year that most posters wanted half our squad out the door. I do think Ratts will give them a chance but in the end he will be firm and fair.If they cannot cut it they will be shown the door to Richmond!
 
I have to totally disagree, but I appreciate the points that have been made. But I think a lot of them are based on expectations regarding a players development timeline. Some (few) draftees are dominant from day one, and stay consistent (e.g. Murph), some start with a boom, fade, and then progress steadily (e.g. Walker, Cooney), some start with a boom and fade away (e.g. Deledio). Every player is different. Russell's big initial problem was confidence. He was drafted to a Club, struggling to rebuild their list at the time, and so the expectation and pressure was huge. I don't think Denis's game plan or the off-field tensions at the Club helped either. He was told to play one way by Denis, and a different way by Mitchell. This set his development back IMO. In the latter part of 2007 I was really impressed with his development. He is growing in confidence, with the faith that Ratten has shown in him. He does have talent, and a lot of it, and is only now starting to appreciate this. Lets see how he goes in 2008. I have him penciled in as one of the surprise packets of 2008. We should never ever consider letting him go. :)
 
I have to totally disagree, but I appreciate the points that have been made. But I think a lot of them are based on expectations regarding a players development timeline. Some (few) draftees are dominant from day one, and stay consistent (e.g. Murph), some start with a boom, fade, and then progress steadily (e.g. Walker, Cooney), some start with a boom and fade away (e.g. Deledio). Every player is different. Russell's big initial problem was confidence. He was drafted to a Club, struggling to rebuild their list at the time, and so the expectation and pressure was huge. I don't think Denis's game plan or the off-field tensions at the Club helped either. He was told to play one way by Denis, and a different way by Mitchell. This set his development back IMO. In the latter part of 2007 I was really impressed with his development. He is growing in confidence, with the faith that Ratten has shown in him. He does have talent, and a lot of it, and is only now starting to appreciate this. Lets see how he goes in 2008. I have him penciled in as one of the surprise packets of 2008. We should never ever consider letting him go. :)

Well put and understood but the point is when is enough enough? What if he hasn't come along as you are suggesting by years end? Decisions.
 
His skills are good - it's just mental things we need to work on (composure, concentration). We're all agreed this is a very important year for his career - perhaps even make or break.

I think it'll be "make".
 
Fair post C4. No way would I have the bottle to start a thread with that title for fear of retribution, hail, pestilence and many large wart-covered frogs being rained down on me by those in the JR camp.

It is definitely time to quit using the "jury is still out" cliche with this bloke. More than anyone else the he must know he is on his last chance this season. We are building toward a situation where every player has to warrant a position. By years end he will have either nailed down a HFF or nailed down his removal tea-chests (they still use them)?

last chance yes. but please let that chance be a fair one and only judge him once its over; not create negativity towards him before the season starts!
 
I've been a fan of Russell's - but I'm starting to get some vibes of Trent Sporn with him. He did show something towards the end of 07 and that gives hopes, but he'll have to build on that this season if he's to stay on the list. More of the same mightn't be enough to save him - or at best extend his career by a year, as you'd think guys like Saddington, Wiggins, Bannister and Blackwell would be delisted before he is. I'm still holding out hope that he can succeed as a lead out HFF type and I think he has the work ethic - but he desperately needs to improve his consistency over four quarters and his confidence in his ability. Hopefully the bigger body helps improve that aspect of his game and he feels that he belongs amongst the men at AFL level.
 

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I might be a bit biased here, seeing as Jordan Russell is the only person to ever become 'somewhat famous' from my old school, but I do think he will become a fairly good player.

In his first few years at the club, he just wasn't played in a proper position. He was drafted as a back pocket / half back flank but he seemed to play mainly on the wing whenever he played for the Blues.

I don't think there is any denying that he did show dramatic improvement last year, particularly when he played as a HF. And in the South African game, although he didn't get a lot of the ball I was impressed with his leading and body work - the ball just wasn't delivered as well as it could have been.

As long as Ratten shows confidence in him, I see no reason why he wont be in the starting 22 all year. Russell will only be 22 at the end of the year, so its not like he's running out of time, so as long as he continues to develop this year there should be no problems.
 
I have to totally disagree, but I appreciate the points that have been made. But I think a lot of them are based on expectations regarding a players development timeline. Some (few) draftees are dominant from day one, and stay consistent (e.g. Murph), some start with a boom, fade, and then progress steadily (e.g. Walker, Cooney), some start with a boom and fade away (e.g. Deledio). Every player is different. Russell's big initial problem was confidence. He was drafted to a Club, struggling to rebuild their list at the time, and so the expectation and pressure was huge. I don't think Denis's game plan or the off-field tensions at the Club helped either. He was told to play one way by Denis, and a different way by Mitchell. This set his development back IMO. In the latter part of 2007 I was really impressed with his development. He is growing in confidence, with the faith that Ratten has shown in him. He does have talent, and a lot of it, and is only now starting to appreciate this. Lets see how he goes in 2008. I have him penciled in as one of the surprise packets of 2008. We should never ever consider letting him go. :)
We mustnt be watchin the same games parrot
 
We are expecting the team to really improve this year and onwards. Hoping JR can lift with everyone around him striving to get back to playing accountable, creative, exciting footy. Be hard not to get drawn into the whole winning feeling wouldn't it? He'd be thinking "I want some of this" wouldn't he?
 
Well put and understood but the point is when is enough enough? What if he hasn't come along as you are suggesting by years end? Decisions.
The year has barely started. Who knows how he'll go over the next 7 months. We've had one exhibition match - yet to even start the pre-season, but we already need to start writing players off?:rolleyes:
 
Russell is now entering his 4th AFL season, and I do think it is make or break time for him, especially given we have had a host of high draft picks, not to mention securing Chris Judd in the off season.

The only position that I can see him holding down at the moment is on a HFF, and even then, he'd have to show something early on in the season. I do hope he makes it, but sadly, i'm not sure that he will.
 
Hey everyone,

Now, I normally don't like to be a negative poster - and I especially don't like cutting down or being harsh on young players who try hard and have had to do it tough in what has been a struggeling side since 2002 with no real leadership .. and yes its still the early days of season 2008 and our romancing period of having Ratts at the helm and our influx of new recruits is still ongoing, however ....

After watching the replay of the Carlton vs. Freo exhibition match in South Africa, last night - It became apparant to me that surely now, even the most pro-Wayne Hughes fans (Hello Gilly1972 :cool:) must acknowledge that the selection of Jordan Russell at pick #9 in 2004 was a drafting disaster.

In what was retrospectively fairly solid draft - we can at least take solace in the fact that we weren't alone in botching our first round pick: Egan (Collingwood, pick #10), John Meesen (Adelaide, pick #8), Adam Thompson (Port Adelaide, pick #11), Danny Meyer (Richmond, pick #12), Andrew McQualter (St. Kilda, pick #17), Ryan Willits (Port Adelaide, pick #19). However, I beleive that punting on Russell so early in the draft could be the biggest drafting blunder our side has ever made.

Now I know what you're thinking: "But C4, surley selecting Luke Livingston at #4 in 2000 was a bigger disaster, given the output??".

I strongly disagree, on the basis that prior to the 2000 draft - Luke Livingston was an impressive CHF/FF for both Kerang and the Bendigo Pioneers, before we destroyed his career by grooming him to play soley as a defender to account for the loss of Silvagni. Livingstons draft camp results were outstanding and he was highly touted to be a top #5 selection. As far as I'm concerned, no one can throw stones at the decision to select Livingston at #4. Russell however, is a different kettle of fish; on the basis that he was never spoken all that highly of within the SANFL or even pre-draft, Russell was almost a smokey selection, given that he probably would have been available come the 2nd round (again, no one knows for sure).

Russell might have bulked up considerably since his recruitment - however, the fact is - he just cannot play football, and since season 2005 I've yet to see Jordan do anything to even suggest he may make it as a firm contributer (like all first rounder selections should be) to our side. One performance that springs to mind, is his blanketting job on guys like; Luke Power, Brent Harvey (although Harvey still managed to kick 4 goals that game) etc, however, with the emergence of Ryan Jackson from the rookie list and his fantastic efforts on the likes of Robert Harvey, I feel that Jordan's fate has been sealed and his contribution to the side is that as such; i can't even find a place for him on the bench in our 'best line up'.

Whilst a lot of you may think I'm being harsh on him, I will acknowledge that YES: he has had to do it tough in a side with which previously had no leadership, no results and no direction. He's also had to play under a narrowminded game plan devised by a senile old man who refused to beleive that the game had passed him by. However, now even with a new coach and an entirely new game plan along with an influx of class, leadership and prosperity into our beloved club - It is apparant to myself atleast, that Jordan still lacks what it takes to contribute firmly to our side, week in-week out.

Personally, in 2006 when Jordan decided to stay at Carlton, I was quite happy. Back then I felt that he still could add a whole lot to our side, but since then given the changes to our club - I have formed an opinion that unless he has a stand out (or break out) year - come October/November, he will be surplass to requirements.

One school of thought that can be undertaken for those watching Jordan throughout season 2008, is that given the changes to our club; he could be to looked at as a 'new recruit' so to speak, this could be justified by the years under Pagan being wasted years and have little to no impact on his own personal development (besides knowing where the benches were at various grounds).

Would Jordan Russell have come under so much scrutiny if he had been a 2nd/3rd round selection? - who knows ? Would the fact that he looks lost on the ground and has no real set position for our side be overlooked?

But one thing is for sure; I hope the boy proves me wrong. :cool:

The first point is that personally, l am not a huge Russell fan, but to be fair the season has not even began and to even think about making judgements based on pre season games is not the correct way to make a assessment.

We all should give players like Russell, Hartlett etc to mid season before we start to make the sort of judgements you are suggesting.
 
I would like to think we could be as patient with Russell as we were with Kade Simpson. Let's not forget that Simpson's first 6 games yielded a total of 12 possessions. It was not until 2006 (his 4th season) that Simpson really started to show that he belonged in the AFL. Let's see what JR produces this season before we prematurely write him off.
 
I would like to think we could be as patient with Russell as we were with Kade Simpson. Let's not forget that Simpson's first 6 games yielded a total of 12 possessions. It was not until 2006 (his 4th season) that Simpson really started to show that he belonged in the AFL. Let's see what JR produces this season before we prematurely write him off.

Yep, can't really argue further when things are put like that.


Bastard.
 
I think the main issue with Russell is that he doesn't get enough of the ball. He's speeedy, and talented, but hardly ever racks up big numbers. Possession games of 5-10 really makes it hard for us to see the best of what he can produce. I think the best game i saw him play was against Port earlier in the year when we beat them by 30-40 odd points. Broke the lines and ran straight through the midfield. He needs to lift.
 
I think the main issue with Russell is that he doesn't get enough of the ball. He's speeedy, and talented, but hardly ever racks up big numbers. Possession games of 5-10 really makes it hard for us to see the best of what he can produce. I think the best game i saw him play was against Port earlier in the year when we beat them by 30-40 odd points. Broke the lines and ran straight through the midfield. He needs to lift.

No question.
 
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