Judd- Super Player- Terrible Captain

[MasterOfMuppets]

easily the worse caotain in the afl! shud have stoped Fervola with his steven segal moves. hshaha

 

[rainman06]

He is an awful captain. It's just a fact of life that some people aren't made for the job - Judd is just one of those characters who always puts himself first. That's how he has been able to become a good player.

In fairness to him however there isn't anybody at that football club who could do a much better job. If there was then Fevola would have been kept in line.

 

[John 2505]

Oh one more post on this subject. Arguably the greatest ever player Leigh Mathews correct me if I am wrong wasn't he club captain when he struck Geelong's Bruns. As I do not take much interest in other teams I am thinking that Mathews at the time was Captain. Does this instance make him a bad captain for not being able to control himself. I do not think so Mathews was on of Hawthorns and the Leagues greatest Captain.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Terrible captain or not i love judd
Do Essendon even have a captain these days?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Hey anti just before I reply to Big Kris, actually you might like to rethink what you said about Judd being sacked. I think if you take time to do some research you will quickly find that Judd sacked your club.

Maa - We caught ourselves a big one!!!

 

[Big Kris]

Hey anti just before I reply to Big Kris, actually you might like to rethink what you said about Judd being sacked. I think if you take time to do some research you will quickly find that Judd sacked your club. Did the penny drop he left the eagles while still captain. Kris how can you actually say that Sam Mitchell has controlled buddy. I am thinking of a old base ball saying 3 strikes and your out. Buddy like Fev are amazing players but its their uncontrollable personality that makes them that good. You start trying to rein them in and they will fall back to the rest of the pack. They have to be themselves. Judd is a premiership captain Norm Smith and Brownlow medalist. Little Sam has a long way to go to catch Judd or be in a position to control Buddy. Yes it is a football forum and those that undestand football can appreciate Judd's qualities on and off the field. A true captain

John,

Thats exactly the kind of response I expected from you, again touting Judds indidual brilliance rather that his leadership ability. He is a gun footballer capable of winning brownlows etc, no debate!
What results has he shown off the field? What qualities has he shown off the field? This year even is usual ability in the media faultered with his off-key joke about Steven Segal. Thats not to mention his on-field pressure point conduct.

I would also be careful about making accusations about unconfirmed reports about Buddy.

 

[HFF]

Pretty fair thread this IMO.

OP is probably right.

Judd is a super player but a poor captain.

He may have been glorified as a "premiership captain" but we all know who was the true captain of the WCE during their years of dominance and that was Ben Cousins-title or not.

He decided to leave WCE and bail when they crashed and burned with their cultural issues and landed at Carlton. He has turned the Blues around no doubt. However, he again is in charge when "cultural issues" arise that see the clubs equal best player (just like Cousins before him) the Fev go.

As Juddy has said many times, he doesn't see himself as a role model, therefore he doesn't see himself as a leader among men. You can see the difference in men such as Jonathan Brown, Michael Voss, Nathan Buckley, James Hird etc all of whom constantly think or thought at their time that "good enough was never good enough" and always challenged themselves and everyone around them to be better.

I agree with Rioli Magic in that he basically has fallen in to the captaincy of both the WCE and Carlton because he is a superstar of the game.

 

[favourites]

I have no doubt on field he is a great leader, one of the best. Off field not so sure.

Does anyone have any doubt that if Tom Harley or Nick Maxwell would've sat back and allowed him to continue on like that.

The lack of respect shown by Fev to Judd I think shows exactly what we are saying.

On field respect, off field not much.

Basically depends what you want your captain to do.

It's not Judds fault there is no leaders at Carlton apart from guys who aren't ready.

 

[Power King]

Cousins was still the Captain, let's be honest.

Judd is a gun player, but he seems to be too introverted to be a gun Captain - he reminds me a lot of Kane Cornes; great player, works his arse off, highly professional - but a Vice Captain more than a Captain.

Agree with elvis here.

 

[Spook]

I don't understand how people outside clubs can rate captains or their ability to lead the team. 90% of their job is done behind closed doors, how can anyone outside the club have a clue?

You are one of the few on BF who play or has played a fair bit of footy at a decent level.

I totally agree. How the hell does someone know if someone is a good leader if we have never even conversed with the bloke let alone know them as a person

 

[dogeatdog]

The guy writes and speak well and as you said is an exceptional player but there have been stuff following him around. maybe coincidence!

 

[laminex]

I'm sure I will receive lots of interesting feedback though this has been playing on my mind of late so thought I would throw it out there.

Chris Judd is a legend of the game, could easily be a multiple brownlow winner and is probably the best clearance player I have ever seen.

However, what makes a captain a captain? Juddy was in charge of a West Coast team that absolutely self destructed, with massive cultural and behavioural issues. Juddy could not control these issues and packed his bag and left. Is that captain material? What happened to the captain going down with the ship?

The Blues saw captain material in him and gave him the job immediately along with the biggest money in history. Since then, Carlton players have been having punch ups at training, have failed to turn up to training on time and well lets just say they have a good time at the Brownlow forcing the club to trade aguably the best forward in the game. Again, where does the captain assume some responsibility for the players beneath him? Where does leadership come into it? Or is 30 touches a game enough to earn you the captaincy?

I have always expected more of leadership than individual brilliance....what do you think?

I can tell you are a follower a sheep for lack of a better word, you show your hand very clearly as you do not know what it takes to lead. To lead you DO not SAY, you SHOW not TALK, your point of view is that of a worker bee you are a gunna as in I'm gunna do this one day I'm gunna do that, you will be fine as long as someone can tell you what to do. When you lead something of any importance comeback and have a say, but your words clearly show you do not have any idea.

BTW

I do not have a clue if Judd is a good captain only the people at the club and other clubs would know.

 

[September_Glory]

Feels like this topic has been done before.

Oh wait, it was... 3 days ago.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=643159

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Whilst it's painfully obvious Judd's a self-important knobber who has little to no regard for anyone else, I just don't see how it's somehow been his responsibility to control (and have controlled) the likes of Fevola and the WCE lot.

We're talking about adults here, grown bloody men. If they choose to not toe the party-line, drink too much, etc, then there's no one to blame but the individual(s) in question.

As for him being a Captain - well he's not much of a leader on the field, but his professionalism would be a shining example for the younger players at Carlton. Which is something that could've been contradicted by all of Fevola's 'incidents.'

 

[GoOsH]

I used to watch Judd at various eagles functions and parties, both before and during his captaincy, and he wasn't a captain in my eyes. Cousins was always the leader and captain, even if the title was taken from him. Judd is an excellent vice captain, or member of the leadership group, he's very articulate and thinks about his footy and the club, and will never put a foot wrong on or off the field, his professionalism is second to none, but I didn't think he was or is ever reAL captain material. Great captains lead naturally, Judd just isn't that type of personality.

That said, I don't blame him for the things that have gone wrong at either club, the players are all grown men and have to take responsibility for themselves, to blame the captain for what occured at either club is just passing the buck, the players should be professional enough to not need nannying by the captain, simple as that.

 

[94_Eagles]

I used to watch Judd at various eagles functions and parties, both before and during his captaincy, and he wasn't a captain in my eyes. Cousins was always the leader and captain, even if the title was taken from him. Judd is an excellent vice captain, or member of the leadership group, he's very articulate and thinks about his footy and the club, and will never put a foot wrong on or off the field, his professionalism is second to none, but I didn't think he was or is ever reAL captain material. Great captains lead naturally, Judd just isn't that type of personality.

That said, I don't blame him for the things that have gone wrong at either club, the players are all grown men and have to take responsibility for themselves, to blame the captain for what occured at either club is just passing the buck, the players should be professional enough to not need nannying by the captain, simple as that.

Condoning the eye gouging then?

 

[budge11]

As for him being a Captain - well he's not much of a leader on the field,

How do you know that? How do you know the effect he's had on the players out there in the field? Just from watching you can measure on a scale of how effective he is as captain?

 

[GoOsH]

Condoning the eye gouging then?

haha true, I didn't think about that. He's never struck me as that type of player, and to be honest I don't think it's premeditated on his part, just a moment of stupidity where he lashes out in a very bad manner. But yes, those incidents are definitely a blemish on his record and a low act really, especially from a captain.

 

[Mundy]

However, what makes a captain a captain? Juddy was in charge of a West Coast team that absolutely self destructed, with massive cultural and behavioural issues.

What an absolute crock of shit. The issues at West Coast were already firmly entrenched. The likes of Gardiner, Cousins and a few others who will go unnamed were a law unto themselves.

Cousins was an addict for a few years and after his fall from grace the title of skipper was handed/forced onto Judd's shoulders at the tender age of what 21?

Chris has been exceptional with his on-field leadership, anyone who suggests otherwise is a muppet. But where does a captains role end? Is it at the club functions? Is it the after party? Or is it actively driving each player home just to make sure they're in their jarmies before 11?

Some people seem to place these ridiculous expectations on Judd simply to be able to tear strips off him should he fall short of the said expectations.

Did you want him to stop Cousins snorting coke by watching him 24/7? Stop Chicky and Cuz hitting up Exotica and snorting coke off the breasts of of your friendly local stripper?

Andrew Embley confronted the pair and had the shit beaten out of him.

Judd was as good a captain as you can get at West Coast, flawless, a gladiator on the field and gentleman off it. It's funny watching West Coast fans adore Cousins, who bought the club to its knees, knowingly whilst shunning a bloke who lead them to their first premiership in 12 years on the field and didnt miss a beat off the field.

Mind Boggling stuff.

Juddy could not control these issues and packed his bag and left. Is that captain material? What happened to the captain going down with the ship?

As mentioned above, the issues were already there well and truly, what about Cousins he was skipper, he abandoned the club by going into rehab and leaving the mess to be cleaned up by blokes like Glass.

The Blues saw captain material in him and gave him the job immediately along with the biggest money in history.

Probably because he was the best player in the league and a promoting/marketing golden goose.

Since then, Carlton players have been having punch ups at training

This is hilarious. You're pinning a brain snap by a known hot head on Judd's shoulders? Maybe Captain Kirk should be labelled as terrible, didnt some guy called Barry Hall throw a few punches in a game. At least Juddy has them fighting at training.

have failed to turn up to training on time and well lets just say they have a good time at the Brownlow forcing the club to trade aguably the best forward in the game.

So again are you suggesting that Judd should personally ferry each player to training to ensure he looks like a good captain, Im sure every club has set team rules, break them and you pay the price.

Judd's greatest act as captain occured in the 2006 GF, played a quarter or so with a dislocated shoulder, layed 4 tackles and racked up 10 or so possies. That's leadership.

Again, where does the captain assume some responsibility for the players beneath him? Where does leadership come into it? Or is 30 touches a game enough to earn you the captaincy?

How has Judd done the wrong thing here, he's done what no one else at Carlton has done for the past 10 years, he's confronted a problem, removed it for some short term pain to formulate a long term, better culture. That's leadership.

I have always expected more of leadership than individual brilliance....what do you think?

I've always wondered why people take potshots at true legends of the game.

 

[Monkey King]

And why did Judd not provide enough influence to prevent events getting to what they have?

So J.Brown is a shit captain after Aker and Proud issues, Harley shit captain re. Stevie J's issues, Scott burns with Didak et al., Hird and Lloyd with Lovett, Buckley with Holland, Brett Kirk with BBBH, Mitchell with Franklin, Renouf and the INJUNCTION issue. The list just goes on.

Get off the grass buddy, not only don't you know what you're on about... your guess borders on ridiculous.

What seals it for me are comments from the people who genuinely know what they're on about; like his teamates... "Since he has come to the club he has set the example and set the bar and everyone is following him basically"

 

[TigersForever]

Maybe he should spend less time at Visy and more time at his club showing his team mates how to behave!

After all, Visy is his main employer isn't it?

 

[Crow-mo]

I'm sure I will receive lots of interesting feedback though this has been playing on my mind of late so thought I would throw it out there.

Chris Judd is a legend of the game, could easily be a multiple brownlow winner and is probably the best clearance player I have ever seen.

However, what makes a captain a captain? Juddy was in charge of a West Coast team that absolutely self destructed, with massive cultural and behavioural issues. Juddy could not control these issues and packed his bag and left. Is that captain material? What happened to the captain going down with the ship?

The Blues saw captain material in him and gave him the job immediately along with the biggest money in history. Since then, Carlton players have been having punch ups at training, have failed to turn up to training on time and well lets just say they have a good time at the Brownlow forcing the club to trade aguably the best forward in the game. Again, where does the captain assume some responsibility for the players beneath him? Where does leadership come into it? Or is 30 touches a game enough to earn you the captaincy?

I have always expected more of leadership than individual brilliance....what do you think?

I am not sure you know what a captain is?

he is a player, not a magician.

 

[Harry Madden]

This crap again?

 

[Blues_Man]

he was sacked from west coast for that very reason, a very poor leader.

He left the e coke eagles because of their drug riddled culture ...he virtually sacked your club .

 

[GarethHale]

John,

Thats exactly the kind of response I expected from you, again touting Judds indidual brilliance rather that his leadership ability. He is a gun footballer capable of winning brownlows etc, no debate!
What results has he shown off the field? What qualities has he shown off the field? This year even is usual ability in the media faultered with his off-key joke about Steven Segal. Thats not to mention his on-field pressure point conduct.

I would also be careful about making accusations about unconfirmed reports about Buddy.

You are a tool, mate, this is the most ridiculous thread ever posted on this site. (Yeah that is saying something!)
What proof do you have that he is a poor captain in comparison to other club leaders? Are you privvy to the internal sanctions of the Carlton football club? Your point is absolutely void, your main argument is based on a few Carlton indisgressions. Well hello are you trying to say a good captain will have absolutely no poor behaviour at his club?? You are a tool.

Have you not even considered how much of a role model Judd is for the younger players? He leads by example, Gibbs, Murphy and others have been quoted saying how good Judd is to have around the place. Setting the example. To follow his lead. You are a tool.

If that does not make him a good leader then tell me einstein, what does?

You are a tool as well.