Junping the immigration Queue

[JeffDunne]

Well if I had access to minimum $750,000 in cash to pay a people smuggler to fly me to Cuba and stick me on a boat to United States, that's what I'd do.

And if I were even filthier richer I'd then pay $700K a pop to bring the extended family over, same smugglers, same route.

Do your wheels ever touch down on Planet Reality?

 

[Pessimistic]

Howard didn't care about letting them in once his policies had stopped the boats. Stopping the boats and regaining control of Australia's border security and immigration was the reason for the tough talking.



Because the asylum seekers were promised if they paid large sums to people smugglers to get them here, their applications would be processed within 90 days under the policy Julia herself drew up.

Asylum seekers didn't realise Labor's promises were worthless. But that is why they are now rioting and burning Christmas Island down. The Labor govt hasn't kept its word.



A coalition govt will reopen Nauru immediately and will then enforce it. The boats will stop coming pretty quickly because the customers in ME will not pay the smugglers without a guaranteed product, as happened at the end of 2001, virtually overnight.

Pardon me but I have heard it all now GJ, Labour broke its election promises to illegal asylum seekers ? Do they have a vote now ?

Its just so much crap quite frankly

 

[GuruJane]

Pardon me but I have heard it all now GJ, Labour broke its election promises to illegal asylum seekers ? Do they have a vote now ?

Not an election promise Pess. A promise made in July 2008.

Although maybe they did promise to process applications at Chris Island in 90 days during the 07 election campaign, can't emember.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Don't rebuild any of it, unless it's staff ammenities, let them live in what they've made.

 

[tazzietiger]

These people who destroyed these building us tax payers paid for better work there debt off to society seeing how Chris Bowen has no back bone to crack down on them.

 

[Ted38]

These people who destroyed these building us tax payers paid for better work there debt off to society seeing how Chris Bowen has no back bone to crack down on them.

Very interesting figures on the Poll being run by the Melbourne Herald Sun as to whether those responsible for the rioting on Christmas Island should be sent home.

As for Bowen, what a weak unconvincing piece of humanity is he?

 

[Pessimistic]

These people who destroyed these building us tax payers paid for better work there debt off to society seeing how Chris Bowen has no back bone to crack down on them.

Look forward to you outlining how that would happen in practice.

By the way, would you give them visas before putting them to work ? SGH OHS etc etc

You just opened up about 11 cans of worms. The suggestions by people in here and on the HUN feedback are hilarious, they are so impractical.
yet these people quite glibly put the blame on the government for being farcical

 

[Junk Time]

rednecks, riddle me this:

If Australia was overtaken by (lets say) chinese who were systematically pursecuting your race, rounding them up, shooting them. Youve seen family members die, and you know your time will come..

Would you:
1) Seek help from the UN. Live in some skanky refugee camp which you know the UN will abandon if the chinese get a bit ansy about it. Possibly staying there for many many years...

2) Use all your means possible (money, contacts) to jump on a ship and head to a safer country.


Myself, I'd be No.2 all the way. What would you do ?

3) fight back

 

[JeffDunne]

3) fight back

Terrorism?

 

[TheStinger]

The main thing that most people who support the refugees right to enter this country forget is that we don't know who most of these people are. They either come here with faked paperwork or no paperwork at all.

The government asks them who they are and they say "Mohammed Al-Fayed from Iraq" and there will probably be 10,000 of them listed on official Iraqi documented lists. How do we know which one they are?

You can't just let people in to the country because they say they are a good person and have been oppressed in their country. How do we know that is true? How do we know they aren't an escaped prisoner, a terrorist, a paedophile or anything else that we would not allow into the country through normal channels?

Sure, it sucks for the real refugees who are legitimately seeking asylum from horrible conditions but if they come here with nothing, then it takes time to make sure they are who they say.

I'm sure if we made it a quicker and simpler entry into the country by not doing the intensive checks on identity that we would have all sorts of shady characters coming in. Is that what we want? And who will be the first to defend them when one of these "refugees" is actually a terrorist and blows up one of our buildings?

Not me, that's for sure. Will the do-gooders defend them? I hope not but they are a weird bunch.

People who come here with legitimate documents and are truthful in why they are seeking asylum are processed as quickly as it is possible to do. It is the ones who were told not to bring anything or told by the boat smugglers to throw them over board that are slowing up the process.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think we would find that the processing of visas is very similar under the coalition and Labour.

Its the rhetoric, and the caolition is the most likely to sound off.

Recently I heard "people didnt set out in leaky boats and get killed under the Howard regime"

Sorry, thats not true- they did. We dont have footage of that so theres less media frenzy

 

[PottSie2]

I think we would find that the processing of visas is very similar under the coalition and Labour.

Its the rhetoric, and the caolition is the most likely to sound off.

Recently I heard "people didnt set out in leaky boats and get killed under the Howard regime"

Sorry, thats not true- they did. We dont have footage of that so theres less media frenzy

Howard had a problem and took care of it.
GillRudd inherited a solution and created a problem.
They then set about this fanciful charade of trying to fix it, but we all know they are not sincere about it.

 

[Pessimistic]

Theres no guarantee the howard solution would have continued - rememeber the High court ruling ?

 

[Max zero]

Theres no guarantee the howard solution would have continued - rememeber the High court ruling ?

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

We all know what *did* happen though.

 

[Eagle87]

Theres no guarantee the howard solution would have continued - rememeber the High court ruling ?

The High Court Ruling simply gave the detainees certain access rights to the Australian Legal System .... a legislative change could have remedied any issues and even Bowen (at the time) didn't see the Ruling as
"ending" anything ...

But nice diversion, again, surely even you can see some significant differences between the results of Howards approach v Gillards?

 

[Pessimistic]

The High Court Ruling simply gave the detainees certain access rights to the Australian Legal System .... a legislative change could have remedied any issues and even Bowen (at the time) didn't see the Ruling as
"ending" anything ...

But nice diversion, again, surely even you can see some significant differences between the results of Howards approach v Gillards?

Certainly makes there no reason to have detention centers off the mainland

"Pick up the phine to nauru" is all we hear.

Sounds like the people of christmas island are jack of it too.

Save dollars by processing on the mainland

 

[Ted38]

Certainly makes there no reason to have detention centers off the mainland

"Pick up the phine to nauru" is all we hear.

Sounds like the people of christmas island are jack of it too.

Save dollars by processing on the mainland

Save dollars by having a serious look at what we give the country that is facilitating the whole process. We shouldn't be processing them anywhere.
Let them try and gain refugee status by the correct channels.

 

[Pessimistic]

Another simplistic 'solution'

There are no solutions just a problem to be managed, in perpetuity.

Of course there are simplistic slogans too

 

[Doctor Jolly]

The main thing that most people who support the refugees right to enter this country forget is that we don't know who most of these people are. They either come here with faked paperwork or no paperwork at all.

The government asks them who they are and they say "Mohammed Al-Fayed from Iraq" and there will probably be 10,000 of them listed on official Iraqi documented lists. How do we know which one they are?

You can't just let people in to the country because they say they are a good person and have been oppressed in their country. How do we know that is true? How do we know they aren't an escaped prisoner, a terrorist, a paedophile or anything else that we would not allow into the country through normal channels?

Sure, it sucks for the real refugees who are legitimately seeking asylum from horrible conditions but if they come here with nothing, then it takes time to make sure they are who they say.

I'm sure if we made it a quicker and simpler entry into the country by not doing the intensive checks on identity that we would have all sorts of shady characters coming in. Is that what we want? And who will be the first to defend them when one of these "refugees" is actually a terrorist and blows up one of our buildings?

Not me, that's for sure. Will the do-gooders defend them? I hope not but they are a weird bunch.

People who come here with legitimate documents and are truthful in why they are seeking asylum are processed as quickly as it is possible to do. It is the ones who were told not to bring anything or told by the boat smugglers to throw them over board that are slowing up the process.

Lets take a simple example of Iraq. During Saddam's rein, anyone associated him, no matter what foul deeds they did, could get (buy) the required documentation to be considered an upstanding person. We rely on local records for anyone other than the big guns.
Similarly anyone opposed to Saddams rein could have a criminal record simply based on their political beleifs.

Your irovy tower view dont quite work.

 

[Max zero]

Lets take a simple example of Iraq. During Saddam's rein, anyone associated him, no matter what foul deeds they did, could get (buy) the required documentation to be considered an upstanding person. We rely on local records for anyone other than the big guns.
Similarly anyone opposed to Saddams rein could have a criminal record simply based on their political beleifs.

Your irovy tower view dont quite work.

So your point is we have no idea who anyone is?

Does the Australian government have to the right to say no or not?

 

[Doctor Jolly]

So your point is we have no idea who anyone is?

Does the Australian government have to the right to say no or not?

My point is we have very limited ability to know who these people really are due to local biases, and at best we are just trying to keep out the extremists who might show up on some international radars who probably make up less than 0.1% of boat people. I'm sure one of you experts on here has the exact figures.

 

[Max zero]

My point is we have very limited ability to know who these people really are due to local biases, and at best we are just trying to keep out the extremists who might show up on some international radars who probably make up less than 0.1% of boat people. I'm sure one of you experts on here has the exact figures.

Which takes time and is often deliberately made harder by the boat people themselves.

While they are waiting they decide to riot. Awesome.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Which takes time and is often deliberately made harder by the boat people themselves.

How is it made harder if any documentation is likely to be false anyway ?

 

[Max zero]

How is it made harder if any documentation is likely to be false anyway ?

Likely? But often not.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Likely? But often not.

I would think it is more likely that a person who wishes his past not to be known would acquire false documentation rather than present no documentation.

This really is criminality 101.