Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[MakeshiftMartyr]

Yeah we shouldn't let our lying eyes fool us, we're really not 10th and we'll be playing in the grand final next month.

If you can only see improvement as binary, that's your problem.

As much as our forward-line still needs work, no-one here should be able to say with a straight face that it didn't improve this year. There's been clear improvement throughout most of the group.

Growth goes beyond immediate results. If you can only accept success in absolutes then I hope you don't look back on 2013 too fondly, because we didn't win that either.

 

[The Feeder Club]

It does work, but we can't do it for 4 quarters.

If what you were saying was true, then these teams would be smashing us regularly. You don't get as close as we've been to all of those teams without the gameplan holding up.

St Kilda beat more top 4 teams than we did this year, amd only lost four other games to top 4 teams by 1 point, 2 points, 8 points and 10 points. As well as several other close losses to non top 4. Admittedly they got belted badly in a couple of games more than us and have a much worse percentage

Yet their coach is considered well off the pace of the modern game by many if not most experts.

Do you disagree with those experts and think their game plan, like ours, holds up but just not for long enough? St Kilda results are not too different than ours, in some respects better.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Who is available that you are sure is a better person to coach?

You've asked this question a couple of times. Do you think we shouldn't be doing our due diligence to find a better coach and just accepting this is as good as it gets?

 

[Joao]

St Kilda beat more top 4 teams than we did this year, amd only lost four other games to top 4 teams by 1 point, 2 points, 8 points and 10 points. As well as several other close losses to non top 4. Admittedly they got belted badly in a couple of games more than us and have a much worse percentage

Yet their coach is considered well off the pace of the modern game by many if not most experts.

Do you disagree with those experts and think their game plan, like ours, holds up but just not for long enough? St Kilda results are not too different than ours, in some respects better.

Ross can coach if that's what you're asking.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Yeh saw that coming. You might as well jump on Facebook & spread your crap there. If you don’t have a solution it’s very hard to take you seriously & have a proper discussion.

Do I have to have the answer for a coach? No. I'm no that familiar with a bunch of the assistants and I don't get to watch as much footy as I used to having now lived 7 years away from home. However what I do know watching Fremantle games is that JLo is clearly not it and I saw that a few years back, we persisted, got lucky once and then other than that he's been awful.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

You've asked this question a couple of times. Do you think we shouldn't be doing our due diligence to find a better coach and just accepting this is as good as it gets?

Do you think we are travelling so badly that a new coach is required? 4 weeks ago we were top 4. Do you honestly think they are going to sack him after being in that position & then losing these games with very close results against top teams?

They are not going to sack him & have to pay him out based on those results. Next year they might & potentially should.

But if those constantly on here moaning about the current set up, then offer up alternatives. This is a discussion forum & id like to hear alternatives. Otherwise go jump on Facebook & piss & moan there.

It’s irrelevant what the club are doing, but I doubt they would be unless the players come to the board with their dismay at how he is coaching.

He is contracted for 1 more year, if right now they are searching for a replacement for 2025, how do you think that would look to the players & coaches? It would definitely get back & a sure way to destroy the culture we’ve been building.

If they are going to back him for next year, which you’d think is the case, there won’t be too much coach searching going on until the bye next year if we are struggling.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Do you think we are travelling so badly that a new coach is required? 4 weeks ago we were top 4. Do you honestly think they are going to sack him after being in that position & then losing these games with very close results against top teams?

and did we finish in the top 4?

 

[freo1997]

This club needs the Steve’s back. Seriously become weak.

 

[freo1997]

Had so much respect for the Steve’s, especially Harris at RTB first presser. We need to have those types back. Now!

 

[Stinky Lomax]

and did we finish in the top 4?

That’s not the point, do you think they’ll sack him based on that?
Or the point that we were in that position when most suggested we wouldn’t be at the start of the year.

 

[Bradesmaen]

That’s not the point, do you think they’ll sack him based on that?
Or the point that we were in that position when most suggested we wouldn’t be at the start of the year.

They should. Especially when we've missed the finals 4 out of 5 under him and there has not been a discernable improvement year on year. We're still low scoring because we focus on defence first and that isn't enough to get you over the line anymore. Scoring has improved from 2021, but it hasn't improved enough because the ball movement is terrible and always has been under longmuir.

 

[Yeti]

Who is available that you are sure is a better person to coach?

This was the same argument trotted out by people on here before we sacked Ross Lyon.

I know because I was one of them. Just because we (the nuffy public) don't know a current better option, doesn't mean there isn't one.

It's up to the club to appoint them. If they think Longmuir is the man to lead us forward, show some leadership and extend him. They should know by now if he has what it takes to take us to a flag.

 

[mattis117]

It’s no coincidence most of the wins we had this year were against bad teams.
We lost to
Sydney x 1
GWS x 1
Geelong x 1
Port x 2
Carlton x 1
Dogs x 1
Hawks x 1

We beat:
Sydney x 1
Brisbane x 1
Dogs x 1

That’s 3-8 against the finalists.

You can’t win a flag without beating the good teams. The best teams bring higher pressure, for longer periods.

I’ve been saying for 3 years now that we overuse the handball out of stoppage. It’s not going to change next year.

The results will be the same. It won’t work.

Pretty rough that 3 of our double ups came against 3 of the best sides in the comp. Not what you'd expect when you finish in 14th.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Do you think we are travelling so badly that a new coach is required? 4 weeks ago we were top 4. Do you honestly think they are going to sack him after being in that position & then losing these games with very close results against top teams?

They are not going to sack him & have to pay him out based on those results. Next year they might & potentially should.

But if those constantly on here moaning about the current set up, then offer up alternatives. This is a discussion forum & id like to hear alternatives. Otherwise go jump on Facebook & piss & moan there.

It’s irrelevant what the club are doing, but I doubt they would be unless the players come to the board with their dismay at how he is coaching.

He is contracted for 1 more year, if right now they are searching for a replacement for 2025, how do you think that would look to the players & coaches? It would definitely get back & a sure way to destroy the culture we’ve been building.

If they are going to back him for next year, which you’d think is the case, there won’t be too much coach searching going on until the bye next year if we are struggling.

I'll put aside your rant about facebook, if you want a discussion on a discussuon forum like you claim a simple question shouldn't provoke that response. Just answer it.

Here's another simple question for you, if he's so highly regarded how many clubs in the league currently would swap their coach for him? Eagles obviously, Adelaide for sure, Melbourne probably although Goodwin has won one so has credits, Richmond maybe but their guy has only had one year, I'd even throw in crazy Vossy. Three clubs likely, five at the absolute most, in my opinion, would see him as superior to what they currently have. That's my opinion, how many do you think?

I don't think we're getting a Chris Scott as our next coach, it's fantasy. And why do we necessarily need to? History shows every flag this century has been won by a first time coach except Matthews and Malthouse. Clubs contending for flags appoint first time coaches all the time.

What those clubs usually don't do, as I have shown before, is hang onto coaches that haven't, in their first five years, at least made a prelim final. They give them a good run at it for a few years but then don't fall for a sunk cost fallacy. There have been 18 premiership coaches since we joined the league in 1995. Hardwick is the only one that didn't at least make a prelim in his first five years. Longmuir is statistically unlikely to win a flag. He's finished 12th. 11th. 6th, 14th, 10th in five seasons. And as has been discussed already today, the reason the club gave him the one year extension was to give him every chance to make finals undistracted. It was a calculated delaying tactic that didn't work and now in my view they either need to cut their losses or give him another extension before the 2025 season begins since it makes no sense to go into next year with him in his final contract year when they thought it was a bad idea to do it this year. I would prefer the former obviously.

There are multiple highly regarded assistant coaches out there. Cox, Carr, Montgomery, Leppitsch etc. I certainly wouldn't be relying on those coaches saying no to the eagles as a sign of unavailability to coach our list. Not lall of them may be the right fit for our club but that's why they need to be doing due diligence. The alternative is to sack him with no replacement in mind and just ahve an open processs, I am not sure if that's better though, it seems a smarter move to do our research.

 

[MadMac]

Who is available that you are sure is a better person to coach?

That’s a pretty silly question. In most cases no club is sure that whatever applicant is better, in fact there’s no guarantee that even a proven coach would succeed. That’s not a point, you don’t maintain the status quo and stick with what you have even though you believe that it won’t result in a premiership.
Another fact is that every premiership coach was once an unknown quality, they all start somewhere.

 

[Wigarus]

Pretty rough that 3 of our double ups came against 3 of the best sides in the comp. Not what you'd expect when you finish in 14th.

You really see what you want to see out of those colourful specs don't you?

 

[mattis117]

I'll put aside your rant about facebook, if you want a discussion on a discussuon forum like you claim a simple question shouldn't provoke that response. Just answer it.

Here's another simple question for you, if he's so highly regarded how many clubs in the league currently would swap their coach for him? Eagles obviously, Adelaide for sure, Melbourne probably although Goodwin has won one so has credits, Richmond maybe but their guy has only had one year, I'd even throw in crazy Vossy. Three clubs likely, five at the absolute most, in my opinion, would see him as superior to what they currently have. That's my opinion, how many do you think?

I don't think we're getting a Chris Scott as our next coach, it's fantasy. And why do we necessarily need to? History shows every flag this century has been won by a first time coach except Matthews and Malthouse. Clubs contending for flags appoint first time coaches all the time.

What those clubs usually don't do, as I have shown before, is hang onto coaches that haven't, in their first five years, at least made a prelim final. They give them a good run at it for a few years but then don't fall for a sunk cost fallacy. There have been 18 premiership coaches since we joined the league in 1995. Hardwick is the only one that didn't at least make a prelim in his first five years. Longmuir is statistically unlikely to win a flag. He's finished 12th. 11th. 6th, 14th, 10th in five seasons. And as has been discussed already today, the reason the club gave him the one year extension was to give him every chance to make finals undistracted. It was a calculated delaying tactic that didn't work and now in my view they either need to cut their losses or give him another extension before the 2025 season begins since it makes no sense to go into next year with him in his final contract year when they thought it was a bad idea to do it this year. I would prefer the former obviously.

There are multiple highly regarded assistant coaches out there. Cox, Carr, Montgomery, Leppitsch etc. I certainly wouldn't be relying on those coaches saying no to the eagles as a sign of unavailability to coach our list. Not lall of them may be the right fit for our club but that's why they need to be doing due diligence. The alternative is to sack him with no replacement in mind and just ahve an open processs, I am not sure if that's better though, it seems a smarter move to do our research.

The pressure should stay on next year. It's clear to everyone that it's finals or gone for JL, so he'll be coaching without a contract beyond that season.

I would be shocked to see any action taken this off-season unless there were disgruntled players, which there doesn't seem to be.

If it's a given that he's got one more year to rescue his career, then it's an all of club focus on improvement from within and a massive trade period. We need to see some tough calls being made. Tell Sonny to retire, really deep dive into whether Fyfe really should be sticking around. There are a few careers on the line this off-season, not just JL. The whole coaching panel, Sean Darcy, Brennen Cox, Matt Johnson, NOD. The only people who are safe are Walls and his team and the strength and condition department who have performed extremely well.

Insert ancient proverb about fortune and misfortune. I hope that our misfortune this year turns out to be fortune in some way. We end the season with few serious injury concerns and a really long off/pre-season to get key players into the body shapes they need (e.g., Darcy isn't seriously injured right now).

This squad needs depth and needs to use it better. Just not good enough this season despite making some significant improvements.

 

[Yeti]

We have 5 players named in the 2024 All-Australian squad. As many as any other team in the comp.

He has the cattle.

 

[mattis117]

You really see what you want to see out of those colourful specs don't you?

You think your attacking my optimism is going to have me change you're quite mistaken. The post you're referring to is objectively true. Sydney, Port, and the Dogs are all top sides. Could write you an essay on how our fixture was a significant disadvantage this year if you'd like?

 

[Wigarus]

You think your attacking my optimism is going to have me change you're quite mistaken. The post you're referring to is objectively true. Sydney, Port, and the Dogs are all top sides. Could write you an essay on how our fixture was a significant disadvantage this year if you'd like?

Yeah sure, I'll take an essay.

And I'm sorry if you feel like I am attacking you. I don't have anything against optimistic people, and I don't have anything against pessimistic people.

At least you have self-awareness to know you have an optimistic take and admit it. But you can't get upset when people who are realists don't take you seriously.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Has Hinkley been re-signed yet? Just for next year, can we wait till after year end before making any decisions? Feels like that never happens with coaches

 

[The Feeder Club]

The pressure should stay on next year. It's clear to everyone that it's finals or gone for JL, so he'll be coaching without a contract beyond that season.

I would be shocked to see any action taken this off-season unless there were disgruntled players, which there doesn't seem to be.

If it's a given that he's got one more year to rescue his career, then it's an all of club focus on improvement from within and a massive trade period. We need to see some tough calls being made. Tell Sonny to retire, really deep dive into whether Fyfe really should be sticking around. There are a few careers on the line this off-season, not just JL. The whole coaching panel, Sean Darcy, Brennen Cox, Matt Johnson, NOD. The only people who are safe are Walls and his team and the strength and condition department who have performed extremely well.

Insert ancient proverb about fortune and misfortune. I hope that our misfortune this year turns out to be fortune in some way. We end the season with few serious injury concerns and a really long off/pre-season to get key players into the body shapes they need (e.g., Darcy isn't seriously injured right now).

This squad needs depth and needs to use it better. Just not good enough this season despite making some significant improvements.

I agree with a lot of this but don't we all agree the aim is a flag with this team? I don't see the point hanging onto someone for a moment longer if he can't get us that flag. If scraping into 8th next year yields a contract extension for someone that isn't ever going to win a flag, that's a worse outcome in some ways than missing finals altogether.

So I believe the judgement call should be made now by the board. He's had five years. You've given him every chance - finals this year was the clear expectation. Five years is a long time. Do you still think he can deliver a flag or not? If yes, for goodness sake they should just extend him now, give him til end 2027 If not, don't keep him another year, it could actually make things worse in the long run. A sixth year isn't going to tell you any more than the last five did.

 

[chaosball32]

We have 5 players named in the 2024 All-Australian squad. As many as any other team in the comp.

He has the cattle.

He’s going to waste yet another year of the most talented Freo team in years, and there’s nothing we can do about it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm interested to see if that South32 CEO that was appointed to the board makes any moves. That is not the type of person to sit around

 

[estibador]

I'd personally argue our pressure and effort was as good as its been all year, we just couldn't deal with Ports. I'm pretty sure the stats would back that up as well.

I'd agree with that with the notable exception of that first 10 minutes of the 3rd qtr people are talking about. We absolutely came out flat as a tack after half time for some reason. It was pathetic given what was at stake.