KOUTA: overated or genuine superstar?

[markfarmer]

Has always been one of the best Players on the field in any given game.

I think that says it.

 

[whats_crackin]

look at all the players who gave away the game after serious injuries like schwarz who had massive talent, kouta was different he got back in there, went through the pain mentally and physically to pull on the navy blue, in my opinion that is a champion

Understant exactly what your trying to say, but lost me in trying to draw a contrasting comparason with schwarz. The ox never gave up. He played and bled for the club till he physically and mentally had nothing left. When he finished he had nothing physically or mentally left in the tank, therefore didnt give up. Kouta and the OX are in the same category, both are not champions of the AFL as they never sustained the glimpses of sheer brilliance they both showed at various stages. Both, if they hadnt been injured, IMO would have gone down as champions without a doubt.

 

[Blues_Man]

Has he even had one really good year?

don't get to see much footy SK ?

 

[Giveyathemail]

Kouta was the prototype of the modern day footballer in his prime....

A 6"4 running athlete, who had awesome skills both sides of the body, built like a brick out house, with courage and flair to boot.

Hird and Kouta were unstoppable for their size, a coaches nightmare to match up on.

 

[Supertiger]

Im a Richmond supporter so have no real agenda, for mine Kouta was a superstar of the game. There was an 18 month period in his career where he was simply amazing. There was a grand final which Carlton won where many people believe he was best on ground but the judges gave the medal to Williams from memory. For mine hes been a superstar and I agree that his best was better than 99% of the players playing the game at the time. So to sum up the guys played for a famous club, won a flag, played a couple hundred games probably and put in an 18 month period which hasnt been matched since by any player and that includes Judd. Hes stuck by his club when theyve been ******** and not pissed off...so yeah overall I reckon he deserves to be recognised.

 

[scooter600x]

What does that mean? 4 seasons? 4 games? His best 4 games were better than Carey could produce? Based on what, Carey’s averaged out performance?

I doubt Kouta’s best was better than Carey’s best or for that matter Ablett’s best or many others. Hird, Voss, Buckley, Harvey are just a few midfielders that would have played as well numerous times in midfield roles as Kouta’s best. As a fo4rwasrd he was handy. As a CHB type he was also handy but never in those roles did he rip a game apart. St his best he played a bit of all those roles and did it very well. A few times he did rip games apart and sometimes in a role combining a midfield and KP. I don’t doubt that Kouta’s best was very good but let’s not get carried away. All the top quality players have outstanding best form and very good average with a high low point. Was Kouta v Carlton in 1999 any better than a couple of Carey Prelims v Geelong? Could he kick 9 in a losing GF? How many times did he get over 40 possessions as a midfielder?

For someone who could mark as well as he could, he has only managed 10 or more marks in a game 11 times, and not since 2001.

On average he has 30 possesion games twice a year (29 times in 14 seasons).

He has kicked more than 4 goals in a game just twice in his career, the most recent being 5 v NM in 2000.

My point was that Kouta's best was very good but it was seen so very rarely. We all remember the game he played v WC in 96 but he never reached that height again, even in 1999-2000.

Just a good, ordinary player.

 

[Nikita Blue]

My point was that Kouta's best was very good but it was seen so very rarely. We all remember the game he played v WC in 96 but he never reached that height again, even in 1999-2000.

Just a good, ordinary player.

Untrue - suggest you revisit 1999/2000.

 

[Blues_Man]

Just a good, ordinary player.

LOL i bet you wish the doggies had some good ordinary players of Kouta's calibre

 

[scooter600x]

Untrue - suggest you revisit 1999/2000.

He only played two games in 1999-2000 that came close - v Sydney in 2000 when he had 13 marks and 39 possesions and v Kangaroos in 2000 when he had 38 possesions, 8 marks and 5 goals.

What I said. His good was very good, but he only did it 4 times.

 

[Nikita Blue]

He only played two games in 1999-2000 that came close - v Sydney in 2000 when he had 13 marks and 39 possesions and v Kangaroos in 2000 when he had 38 possesions, 8 marks and 5 goals.

What I said. His good was very good, but he only did it 4 times.

So he just fluked winning the MVP in 2000?

 

[scooter600x]

So he just fluked winning the MVP in 2000?

Wasn't as good as West

 

[Smell The Glove]

Im a Richmond supporter so have no real agenda, for mine Kouta was a superstar of the game. There was an 18 month period in his career where he was simply amazing. There was a grand final which Carlton won where many people believe he was best on ground but the judges gave the medal to Williams from memory. For mine hes been a superstar and I agree that his best was better than 99% of the players playing the game at the time. So to sum up the guys played for a famous club, won a flag, played a couple hundred games probably and put in an 18 month period which hasnt been matched since by any player and that includes Judd. Hes stuck by his club when theyve been ******** and not pissed off...so yeah overall I reckon he deserves to be recognised.

Touche, my friend. Touche.

 

[Russ74]

Genuine superstar. Would be in the best Carlton side of all time. I liked the mention of David Schwarz. His finals series in 94 was awesome especially the game against Carlton. But Kouta- No doubt in his prime he was unstoppable- too strong for guys that could run with him and too quick for guys as strong as him.

 

[Russ74]

Kouta was the prototype of the modern day footballer in his prime....

A 6"4 running athlete, who had awesome skills both sides of the body, built like a brick out house, with courage and flair to boot.

Hird and Kouta were unstoppable for their size, a coaches nightmare to match up on.

Please dont put that fairy in the same sentence as Kouta. I must admit I threw up in my mouth a little bit when I read that.

 

[sweetman87]

He only played two games in 1999-2000 that came close - v Sydney in 2000 when he had 13 marks and 39 possesions and v Kangaroos in 2000 when he had 38 possesions, 8 marks and 5 goals.

What I said. His good was very good, but he only did it 4 times.

In the 1999 and 2000 seasons Kouta was far from ordinary he was simply billaint, although the stats might show he only payed 4 spectacular games, you have to understand that stats arn't the be all and end all. Whilst many great players would kick 5 goals in a game and maybe 1 or 2 in each quater, Kouta used to play in the midfield and then drfit forward where for ten minutes of the game he'd kick 3 really quick goals and put the game out of reach for the opposition, hence Carlton won over ten games in a row in 2000 and were the clear second best team in the league.

Kouta=Champion, had it not been for the injuries perhaps Kouta could have been even greater, maybe even a legend.

Remember not many players could win games off their own boot in 10 mins of foty.

 

[powinc]

All Kouta's supporter keep refering to 99 & 2000 as great seasons, apart those two seasons, I see another Richo. Both potential superstars, but thru injury, potential not forfilled.

 

[tuna sammich]

everyone should take a look at this vid.
http://www.kouta43.com/

scroll down a little bit and click on the koutaman forever video.

i dont think there has ever been a midfielder in the game who could take a mark like kouta. an absolute freak.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Please dont put that fairy in the same sentence as Kouta. I must admit I threw up in my mouth a little bit when I read that.

A ****en good fairy though !

 

[doppleganger]

Carey - 2 Premierships
Hird - 2 Premierships
Voss - 3 Premierships
Judd - 1 Premiership
Kouta - 1 Premiership

Buckley - 0.0

I think that says it all really. Those players would have got Collingwood over the line. Buckley could not. Voss got Brisbane over the line in 2002. Therein lies the difference.

Keep it up tiger

You have absolutely no idea

Kouta won his premiership in 1995, he was a promising young kid back then. It was Carlton's champions in Sticks, Diesel, SOS, Bradley etc. that were Carltons senior blokes in 95. When kouta's turn came round in 99,00,01 what did he win for Carlton??

How come Kouta couldn't get his team over the line in 99 if he was better then Buckley??

When Judd played his best game 05, his team also lost.

U simply have no idea of what ur talking about, clear that u dont rate Buckley but ur reasoning doesn't make sense.

Kouta's peak years 99, 2000 & 2001 seasons

15 games over 30 disposals - best 39
8 games kicking 3+ goals

Buckley's combined 99, 2000 & 2001 seasons

27 games over 30 disposals - 4 games 40+, best 46
8 games kicking 3+ goals

this being Kouta's only dominant period, Buckley has been at a higher level for a decade. With his best being better, and occuring much more often.

 

[murph#3]

kouta's best was simply better than anyone else's best unfortunately injuries have got the better of him and have probably robbed him of champion status.

 

[Nikita Blue]

Wasn't as good as West

Then why didn't his peers agree?

 

[Bronx Bomber]

All Kouta's supporter keep refering to 99 & 2000 as great seasons, apart those two seasons, I see another Richo. Both potential superstars, but thru injury, potential not forfilled.

Unfourtunatly I completley agree with you. Altough I'm sure if you asked him when he started whether he'd be happy with 2 Best & Fariests, 2 All Australians, a premiership, captain the club, 200+ games....I'm sure he'd be happy with that.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

How come Kouta couldn't get his team over the line in 99 if he was better then Buckley??

Kouta got his team into the 99 grand final.

this being Kouta's only dominant period, Buckley has been at a higher level for a decade. With his best being better, and occuring much more often.

I'm sure however that Buckley would give up his dominant period to have something that Kouta does. A premiership medal.

 

[doppleganger]

Kouta got his team into the 99 grand final.

your point?? he wasn't good enough to get carlton a flag, and that is what the essendon supporter believes.

I'm sure however that Buckley would give up his dominant period to have something that Kouta does. A premiership medal.

of course he would, but that doesn't make Buckleys performance any less brilliant.

 

[WestCat]

I don't think there is an Essendon supporter alive who still remembers 1999 that wouldn't say he is a true champion.

Pretty much sums it up, he singlehandedly beat one of the all time great teams in a final. If that doesn't classify him as a champion, I don't know what does.