Ladder streaks against rival clubs

[Guardian Hawk]

A lot of focus goes on win streaks between clubs in the AFL, but I think just as interesting (if not more so given its a better reflection of a gulf in class) are streaks of one team finishing higher than another on the ladder.

This is the thread to highlight any such streaks, current or historical.

Hawthorn's current longest streak is an interesting one as it is the only club with whom we are a chance to continue in 2021 and are at exactly the same stage of development.

To elucidate, Hawthorn have finished higher on the ladder than North Melbourne every year since 2007 - 13 seasons and counting!
ON the flip side, Richmond and West Coast are up to 4 seasons and counting over Hawthorn.

What other streaks are out there? I bet a few have big ones over the likes of Carlton and Melbourne (which may be about to end). Some may never have finished lower than the Gold Coast (Geelong?) There'd be some big historical ones as well - I know Hawthorn were on the receiving end early days - Collingwood may have racked up a few decades of higher finishes.

Over to you...

Thanks to PonsfordMagpie, the top ten (well 13 given how many are equal 6th) current streaks are:

1. Geelong over Carlton - 19 years
2. Geelong over Essendon - 17 years
3. Collingwood over Carlton - 16 years
4. Hawthorn over North Melbourne - 13 years
5. Geelong over St Kilda - 11 years
6. West Coast over Melbourne - 10 years
6. West Coast over St Kilda - 10 years
6. West Coast over Western Bulldogs - 10 years
6. Collingwood over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. Geelong over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. Port Adelaide over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. Richmond over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. West Coast over Gold Coast - 10 years

2021 Update
1. Geelong over Carlton - 20 years
2. Geelong over Essendon - 18 years
3. Hawthorn over North Melbourne - 14 years
4. Geelong over St Kilda - 12 years
5. West Coast over St Kilda - 11 years
5. Geelong over Gold Coast - 11 years
5. Port Adelaide over Gold Coast - 11 years
5. Richmond over Gold Coast - 11 years
5. West Coast over Gold Coast - 11 years
10. Port Adelaide over Carlton - 9 years
10. Richmond over Carlton - 9 years

2022 Update

1. Geelong over Carlton - 21 years
2. Geelong over Essendon - 19 years
3. Hawthorn over North Melbourne - 15 years
4. Geelong over St Kilda - 13 years
5. Geelong over Gold Coast - 12 years
6. Port Adelaide over Gold Coast - 12 years
7. Richmond over Gold Coast - 12 years
8. Richmond over Carlton - 10 years

 

[projectv]

Interesting thread.

Collingwood have finished above Carlton every season since 2004, a streak which will most likely end this season.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Interesting thread.

Collingwood have finished above Carlton every season since 2004, a streak which will most likely end this season.

That's a good one! 16 years is a very long time, especially between two traditional (and quite bitter) rivals. I wonder if that is the current longest streak?

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Port, Richmond, Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood have never finished below the Gold Coast.

slightly surprised it was so few - Adelaide and hawthorn were on the list til 2020

 

[TheBigLeftBoot]

That's a good one! 16 years is a very long time, especially between two traditional (and quite bitter) rivals. I wonder if that is the current longest streak?

Good thread

2004 also the last year Brisbane finished higher than Geelong.

Essendon last finished above Geelong in 2003.

Barring a miracle Geelong will also record 20 years of higher placed finishes over Carlton 2002-2021.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Interesting thread. Are you talking just the ladder, or finishing position after finals? Because Brisbane have either the best streak or the worst streak against Richmond, depending on how you see it.

If you're talking just H&A, Richmond have the following streaks:

Above
10 years - Gold Coast
8 years - Carlton
6 years - Essendon
5 years - Fremantle
4 years - Collingwood, West Coast, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melb, St Kilda, Sydney, Bulldogs
3 years - Adelaide
1 year - Geelong

Below
2 years - Brisbane
1 year - Port

If you're talking after finals, Richmond have the following streaks:

Above
10 years - Brisbane, Gold Coast
7 years - Carlton
6 years - Essendon
5 years - Fremantle
4 years - Adelaide, Geelong, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melb, Port, St Kilda, Sydney, Bulldogs
2 years - West Coast, Collingwood

The Tigers jumping up and down the ladder in 2015, 2016 and 2017 means the majority of teams have a 4 year streak finishing below Richmond.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Ladder Streaks:

Geelong > Carlton = 2002-Present
Geelong > Essendon = 2004-Present
Collingwood > Carlton = 2005-Present
Hawthorn > North Melbourne = 2008-Present
Geelong > St Kilda = 2010-Present
Collingwood > Gold Coast = 2011-Present
Geelong > Gold Coast = 2011-Present
Port Adelaide > Gold Coast = 2011-Present
Richmond > Gold Coast = 2011-Present
West Coast > Gold Coast = 2011-Present
West Coast > Melbourne = 2011-Present
West Coast > St Kilda = 2011-Present
West Coast > Western Bulldogs = 2011-Present
Port Adelaide > Carlton = 2013-Present
Richmond > Carlton = 2013-Present
West Coast > Carlton = 2014-Present
GWS > Carlton = 2015-Present
GWS > Essendon = 2015-Present
GWS > Gold Coast = 2015-Present
Melbourne > Gold Coast = 2015-Present
Richmond > Essendon = 2015-Present
St Kilda > Gold Coast = 2015-Present
St Kilda > Carlton = 2015-Present
West Coast > North Melbourne = 2015-Present
Western Bulldogs > Carlton = 2015-Present
Western Bulldogs > Gold Coast = 2015-Present
Collingwood > Fremantle = 2016-Present
Geelong > Fremantle = 2016-Present
Geelong > North Melbourne = 2016-Present
Geelong > Western Bulldogs = 2016-Present
GWS > Fremantle = 2016-Present
GWS > North Melbourne = 2016-Present
Port Adelaide > Fremantle = 2016-Present
Richmond > Fremantle = 2016-Present
West Coast > Fremantle = 2016-Present
Western Bulldogs > Fremantle = 2016-Present

 

[Roobs321]

They’ve been threads like this before.

Post-finals, Sydney had a perfect record over Freo until that 2013 PF. 18 seasons.

North are the only club that held off the Bears (1987-2000)

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Interesting thread. Are you talking just the ladder, or finishing position after finals? Because Brisbane have either the best streak or the worst streak against Richmond, depending on how you see it.

If you're talking just H&A, Richmond have the following streaks:

Above
10 years - Gold Coast
8 years - Carlton
6 years - Essendon
5 years - Fremantle
4 years - Collingwood, West Coast, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melb, St Kilda, Sydney, Bulldogs
3 years - Adelaide
1 year - Geelong

Below
2 years - Brisbane
1 year - Port

If you're talking after finals, Richmond have the following streaks:

Above
10 years - Brisbane, Gold Coast
7 years - Carlton
6 years - Essendon
5 years - Fremantle
4 years - Adelaide, Geelong, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melb, Port, St Kilda, Sydney, Bulldogs
2 years - West Coast, Collingwood

The Tigers jumping up and down the ladder in 2015, 2016 and 2017 means the majority of teams have a 4 year streak finishing below Richmond.

Thanks - I think after finals is all that matters to anyone. So Brisbane and Gold Coast for you guys with something incredible required to keep the Brisbane one going...

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Thanks to PonsfordMagpie, the top ten (well 13 given how many are equal 6th) current streaks are:

1. Geelong over Carlton - 19 years
2. Geelong over Essendon - 17 years
3. Collingwood over Carlton - 16 years
4. Hawthorn over North Melbourne - 13 years
5. Geelong over St Kilda - 11 years
6. West Coast over Melbourne - 10 years
6. West Coast over St Kilda - 10 years
6. West Coast over Western Bulldogs - 10 years
6. Collingwood over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. Geelong over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. Port Adelaide over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. Richmond over Gold Coast - 10 years
6. West Coast over Gold Coast - 10 years

Added to the OP now.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

The interesting one this week is Collingwood over Carlton - big rivals with a 17 year streak. They play each other this weekend and are separated by just one win on the ladder. All to play for.

Another up for grabs is the 'Horne cup' between Hawthorn and North - a 13 year streak separated by half a game.

West Coast are fighting to stay in the 8 but also to maintain their decade long streak in the process, with just percentage separating them and St Kilda. West Coast also look set to lose a couple of their decade long streaks.

Unfortunately for a Hawthorn supporter, the Geelong ones at the top are looking pretty safe for another year.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Gold Coast claimed 2 scalps last year (Adelaide and Hawthorn). That is, teams they've never finished higher than. This year they are eyeing off some more, with their best chances being:

1. Collingwood (Gold Coast are 1 win ahead with 6 rounds to go)
2. Richmond (1 win behind)
3. West Coast (2 wins behind)

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Well, with another year done and dusted there have been some interesting updates:

Carlton finally finished above arch rival Collingwood for the first time in 17 years.

On the flip side, however, Carlton have now finished below Geelong for 20 straight years! Geelong actually have the top 2 streaks, with an 18 year one going against Essendon as well.

The banter between North and Hawthorns rebuilds is made all the more interesting with Hawthorn now holding a 14 year streak of finishing higher than North.

Top 10 streaks to be broken this year also includes West Coast over both the Grand Finalists, which sat at 10 years each.

They did, however, manage to hang on to their streak over St.Kilda (now at 11 years) by less than 2%!

Gold Coast also finished higher than Collingwood for the first time in their history (leaving Port, Geelong, Richmond and West Coast as the 4 remaining clubs they've never finished higher than).

2 new streaks enter the top 10 and both are over Carlton.

Here is the updated 2021 top 10:


1. Geelong over Carlton - 20 years
2. Geelong over Essendon - 18 years
3. Hawthorn over North Melbourne - 14 years
4. Geelong over St Kilda - 12 years
5. West Coast over St Kilda - 11 years
5. Geelong over Gold Coast - 11 years
5. Port Adelaide over Gold Coast - 11 years
5. Richmond over Gold Coast - 11 years
5. West Coast over Gold Coast - 11 years
10. Port Adelaide over Carlton - 9 years
10. Richmond over Carlton - 9 years

(added to OP).

 

[Liam Boy]

I hadn't noticed the Hawthorn over North streak but it makes sense. Last time we finished above you:

 

[Saintt]

Thanks - I think after finals is all that matters to anyone.

Then why are you counting ladder position before finals?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Then why are you counting ladder position before finals?

I'm not (not intentionally at least). Have you noticed an error? (some data was from Ponsford Magpie).

Edit: Found it. St Kilda finished higher than West Coast last year when the Saints won their EF by 3 and the Eagles lost theirs by 1. Will amend.

 

[Saintt]

I'm not (not intentionally at least). Have you noticed an error? (some data was from Ponsford Magpie).

Edit: Found it. St Kilda finished higher than West Coast last year when the Saints won their EF by 3 and the Eagles lost theirs by 1. Will amend.

Geelong over St Kilda should be 11 years (2011-2021). Richmond's streak over Carlton is only 8 years also.

 

[wagstaff]

West Coast's record all-time over St Kilda is pretty remarkable - only finished below them 6-7 times in their 35 seasons.

 

[wagstaff]

Would be interesting to see what the all-time VFL/AFL ladder streak is.

Think Carlton finished above the Swans for 30 years or so from mid-40s to mid-70s.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Record streaks for each club combination

Club	Ad	Br	Ca	Co	Es	Fr	Ge	GC	GWS	Ha	Me	NM	PA	Ri	St	Sy	WC	WB	Fi	Un
Ad		14	6	5	6	9	3	9	4	5	6	3	3	9	8	5	4	7	6
Br	6		9	7	10	6	6	4*	3	7	4	4	5	7	6	6	6	6	3
Ca	5	9		6	16	7	11	3*	3	32	23	25	5	17	20	34	3	17	21	7
Co	5	14	9		15	6	12	10	3	18	12	17	5	12	26	30	7	15	14	7
Es	6	9	10	6		7	10	5*	3	23	10	12	4	12	21	17	6	9	10	7
Fr	3	9	6	3	5		2	5*	4	4	10	2*	4	7	4	2	2	4	2
Ge	5	17*	20*	10	18*	8		11*	6	17	11	16	9	15	14	10	5	12	10	5
GC	1	4	2	1*	1	1	-		3	1	2	2*	-	-	2	1	-	2
GWS	4*	5	7*	3	7*	6*	2	7*		3*	4	6*	4	1*	6	5*	2	3
Ha	7	9	10	8	7	9	10	9	4		22	14*	9	12	18	14	9	21	15
Me	2*	8	8	6	9	5	9	7*	2*	18		12	1*	11	11	12	3	6	15	4
NM	3	14	7	8	7	8	7	9	4	11	11		4	12	17	11	8	11	8
PA	4*	6	9*	5	6	6*	4	11*	4	4	6	7		4	6	3*	4	5
Ri	5*	10	8*	6	14	5	9	11*	4	31	11	20	4		13	15	2	13	18	4
St	4	8	9	4	9	5	5	7*	2	15	11	14	5	10		17	3	11	16	4
Sy	7	9	8	6	9	18	16	9	5	12	15	13	9	15	11		3	7	8	7
WC	4*	6	8*	10	6	7*	5	11*	4	8	10	7*	5	8	10	6		9	7
WB	4	6	7*	4	4	6*	5	7*	5	13	10	13	4	12	10	6	3		7
Fi	-	7	9	3	8	-	8			17	12	7		8	17	9	1	4		4
Un			-	-	-		2				1			3	2	-			1

 

[Ron The Bear]

Longest ladder streaks

34 Carl v Syd 1943-76
32 Carl v Haw 1925-56
31 Rich v Haw 1925-55
30 Coll v Syd 1946-75
26 Coll v St.K 1914-41
25 Carl v N.M. 1925-49
23 Carl v Melb 1965-87
23 Ess v Haw 1938-60
22 Haw v Melb 1968-89

 

[TheBigLeftBoot]

I'm not (not intentionally at least). Have you noticed an error? (some data was from Ponsford Magpie).

Edit: Found it. St Kilda finished higher than West Coast last year when the Saints won their EF by 3 and the Eagles lost theirs by 1. Will amend.

If only counting after finals then Geelong over Brisbane is 2005-2021 17 years

 

[terrybull]

1897 - 1902 (6 years) - Everyone over St.Kilda

 

[Fadge]

Aaaahhhh, now I understand why the Carlton faithful were so excited about finishing ahead of Collingwood this year.

16 seasons? Wowee

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Record streaks for each club combination

Club	Ad	Br	Ca	Co	Es	Fr	Ge	GC	GWS	Ha	Me	NM	PA	Ri	St	Sy	WC	WB	Fi	Un
Ad		14	6	5	6	9	3	9	4	5	6	3	3	9	8	5	4	7	6
Br	6		9	7	10	6	6	4*	3	7	4	4	5	7	6	6	6	6	3
Ca	5	9		6	16	7	11	3*	3	32	23	25	5	17	20	34	3	17	21	7
Co	5	14	9		15	6	12	10	3	18	12	17	5	12	26	30	7	15	14	7
Es	6	9	10	6		7	10	5*	3	23	10	12	4	12	21	17	6	9	10	7
Fr	3	9	6	3	5		2	5*	4	4	10	2*	4	7	4	2	2	4	2
Ge	5	17*	20*	10	18*	8		11*	6	17	11	16	9	15	14	10	5	12	10	5
GC	1	4	2	1*	1	1	-		3	1	2	2*	-	-	2	1	-	2
GWS	4*	5	7*	3	7*	6*	2	7*		3*	4	6*	4	1*	6	5*	2	3
Ha	7	9	10	8	7	9	10	9	4		22	14*	9	12	18	14	9	21	15
Me	2*	8	8	6	9	5	9	7*	2*	18		12	1*	11	11	12	3	6	15	4
NM	3	14	7	8	7	8	7	9	4	11	11		4	12	17	11	8	11	8
PA	4*	6	9*	5	6	6*	4	11*	4	4	6	7		4	6	3*	4	5
Ri	5*	10	8*	6	14	5	9	11*	4	31	11	20	4		13	15	2	13	18	4
St	4	8	9	4	9	5	5	7*	2	15	11	14	5	10		17	3	11	16	4
Sy	7	9	8	6	9	18	16	9	5	12	15	13	9	15	11		3	7	8	7
WC	4*	6	8*	10	6	7*	5	11*	4	8	10	7*	5	8	10	6		9	7
WB	4	6	7*	4	4	6*	5	7*	5	13	10	13	4	12	10	6	3		7
Fi	-	7	9	3	8	-	8			17	12	7		8	17	9	1	4		4
Un			-	-	-		2				1			3	2	-			1

Is the same record considered a breakage? The Collingwood and Carlton numbers don’t make sense in the context of the information in this thread?

Edit: previous posters must’ve missed 2013, where Carlton made the semis and the Pies went down in the EF