Leigh Matthews Trophy most prestigious individual award

[Dogs_r_barking]

I think the coach’s award has huge merit, the player that destroys or damages the opposition coach’s game plan, or the player that carrys out instructions to a T for the team, often sacrificing their own game in the process.

 

[Underarm]

2021: Was certainly undisputed
2023: I'm not sure who you could argue was better
2024: Ditto. Probably closer than past years, but the overwhelming majority of opinion is that the Bont has been the best player.

Either Coaches and Umpires have a vendetta against him, or he wasn't the undisputed best player for the year...

 

[RonnieRaven]

I think you have to win at least 2 of the big three to stake your case as the best player for that season.
Winning one has prestige but it’s not enough to stake a claim of the prestige as the best player a home and away season

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Either Coaches and Umpires have a vendetta against him, or he wasn't the undisputed best player for the year...

it’s a pity good players cannot be appreciated, without team rivalry compelling people to put down or find fault with great players.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

never knew tigs fans were this salty about Bont

Well, he was a Tiges supporter growing up, sadly.




Bont is the best player in the game.

...and as Dangerfield said, "...it's not even close.".

To disagree is to be totally and completely wrong.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I think there’s validity to all three major awards.

That said, I think players are probably more prone to taking the piss/contriving an outcome. Case in point - 2004 when Ryan Lonie

Ryan Lonie

Age

41

Ht

189cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.1

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.4

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

finished sixth in the AFLPAs most intimidating player question after sections of the Brisbane squad felt it prudent to take the piss.

 

[RCAB]

The problem with voting awards for each game, it assumes that a 13 goal performance is equal to 28 disposals performance with no goals, because you have to award the same amount of votes each game.


I don't understand how awarding an arbitrary 3,2,1 in a game is logical, because you're assuming:

1. every game is exactly the same, if on value or of weight
2. That the people adjudicating the game, their job is to look at free kicks, do not care about who's best on ground after running for 10km

How is it that the best players of all time Matthews, Dunstall, Ablett, Carey, Barassi, Franklin, to name a few have never won a Brownlow?

Imagine someone that has never watched our sport, you told them a list of the greatest players and said not one of them was ever awarded the best player award. Can you imagine Messi, Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona never winning the FIFA player of the year?

 

[Underarm]

it’s a pity good players cannot be appreciated, without team rivalry compelling people to put down or find fault with great players.

I've got nothing against the dogs, or Bont. He just doesn't need people overvaluing the AFLPA MVP to gain the appropraite kudos. Everyone knows hes a gun.

Same with Pendlebury. Was consistantly a top 5 midfielder for a decade and had 1 AFLCA award to show for it. Definetely deserved more Individual success.

 

[Bald]

The problem with voting awards for each game, it assumes that a 13 goal performance is equal to 28 disposals performance with no goals, because you have to award the same amount of votes each game.


I don't understand how awarding an arbitrary 3,2,1 in a game is logical, because you're assuming:

1. every game is exactly the same, if on value or of weight
2. That the people adjudicating the game, their job is to look at free kicks, do not care about who's best on ground after running for 10km

How is it that the best players of all time Matthews, Dunstall, Ablett, Carey, Barassi, Franklin, to name a few have never won a Brownlow?

Imagine someone that has never watched our sport, you told them a list of the greatest players and said not one of them was ever awarded the best player award. Can you imagine Messi, Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona never winning the FIFA player of the year?

Exactly this.

Just know that if people hold the Brownlow in the highest regard, what they're saying is that Dustin Martin in his peak never played a better game than a bottom of the ladder dead rubbers best on ground, because each is only worth 3 votes.

 

[BEaston]

Sure it might be a “vibe” award, but I don’t think that makes it any less valid.

An issue with the Brownlow is that it only recognised the three best players on the ground. Be consistently 4,5,6th best on ground but don’t get any recognition.

AFLCA is a bit better, with both coaches awarding 5-4-3-2-1 votes, but still not recognising consistently good players in the 6-10 range.

Both suffer because, for example, the Brownlow rates the BOG 50% higher than the 2nd BOG (ie 3 votes to 2 votes), when the reality one player might have got the nod over the other just because he was on the winning team.

I guess fantasy rankings/ Champion data try to normalise performance, but we all know some contested marks are greater than others, some tackles (laid or broken) are worth more and some goals are kicked in skill-filled pressure moments while others are pure luck or more the benefit of team-mates hard work up the ground.

So that’s why I’m happy for the AFLCA award to be rated the equal of other awards because sometimes the “eye test” is required.

It's even more than the eye test, because they're actually playing against eachother. They not only see them as close as possible, they also feel the hits, they know when they get beaten in a contest how much effort they themselves put into it and still lost. They are trying their hardest to stop their opponents so they know what it takes to beat them.

That adds an extra dimension and level of respect IMO.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Ì

I think the coach’s award has huge merit, the player that destroys or damages the opposition coach’s game plan, or the player that carrys out instructions to a T for the team, often sacrificing their own game in the process.

The cynic in me would suggest that many coaches would find it difficult not to swap a 5 for a 3, or a 3 for a 5 when it will undoubtedly help one of his own player's chances of winning. And of course, the coaches votes differ in that the voters know precisely who's still a chance of winning and who's out of contention by the final rounds.

 

[PhatBoy]

Sure it might be a “vibe” award, but I don’t think that makes it any less valid.

An issue with the Brownlow is that it only recognised the three best players on the ground. Be consistently 4,5,6th best on ground but don’t get any recognition.

AFLCA is a bit better, with both coaches awarding 5-4-3-2-1 votes, but still not recognising consistently good players in the 6-10 range.

Both suffer because, for example, the Brownlow rates the BOG 50% higher than the 2nd BOG (ie 3 votes to 2 votes), when the reality one player might have got the nod over the other just because he was on the winning team.

I guess fantasy rankings/ Champion data try to normalise performance, but we all know some contested marks are greater than others, some tackles (laid or broken) are worth more and some goals are kicked in skill-filled pressure moments while others are pure luck or more the benefit of team-mates hard work up the ground.

So that’s why I’m happy for the AFLCA award to be rated the equal of other awards because sometimes the “eye test” is required.

This.

And equally, the Brownlow assigns an identical value to the player who has 22 touches and 2 goals in a shitfest non-descript game between two teams ranked 14 and 16 where the winner gets a 30 point victory and the result was never in doubt, to the player who has 30 touches, 3 goals, a couple of goal assists and 5 tackles in a two point win in a top four battle.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I've got nothing against the dogs, or Bont. He just doesn't need people overvaluing the AFLPA MVP to gain the appropraite kudos. Everyone knows hes a gun.

Same with Pendlebury. Was consistantly a top 5 midfielder for a decade and had 1 AFLCA award to show for it. Definetely deserved more Individual success.

Bont is immense. Basically combined the best attributes of Voss and Pendlebury. That’s a handy compliment to be paid.

 

[SC_Power]

2021: Was certainly undisputed
2023: I'm not sure who you could argue was better
2024: Ditto. Probably closer than past years, but the overwhelming majority of opinion is that the Bont has been the best player.

So I’m guessing you didn’t watch any Port Adelaide games in 2021.

But yeah, undisputed.

 

[SC_Power]

I think the coach’s award has huge merit, the player that destroys or damages the opposition coach’s game plan, or the player that carrys out instructions to a T for the team, often sacrificing their own game in the process.

Yeah, but given half to 2/3 of the votes for a player are given by their own coach, there’s a vested interest in there to be examined.

 

[cutterman]

Lou Richards Medal the best voting system:
Top 4 players in each game rated out of 10
The best games get rewarded with 9s and 10s, whereas the games without a real standout player sees multiple 7s

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Lou Richards Medal the best voting system:
Top 4 players in each game rated out of 10
The best games get rewarded with 9s and 10s, whereas the games without a real standout player sees multiple 7s

Realistically, the fairest way would be some convoluted system like a few clubs use for their B&F, like there's a maximum of 50 votes that you can allocate for a game and you give as many votes to as many players as you deem worthy. A stock standard three vote game for Lachie Neale or Nick Daicos might get 7-8 votes, whereas a 40+ disposal/2-3 goal effort, or a Jeremy Cameron style 25 disposal/7 goal performance might get upwards of 15 votes.

It'd be too complicated for TV and ridiculously boring until the final few rounds, but would probably make the award more open to all positions.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

This is even worse, it's the AFLPA award. Pure popularity contest.

One thing the players know is who the best player in the comp is.
The umpires do not know this.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

One thing the players know is who the best player in the comp is.
The umpires do not know this.

Personally, when I was playing, I can never really remember a year where I would have unequivocally said this player or that player was the best in my league. You knew who the guns were, you knew who'd dominated when you played against this team or that team, but then you'd see that some bloke you thought was a complete spud has gone out and kicked eight against someone the following week.

I think the players in the AFL would be quite similar. They'd have the stats to aid their research, though i seriously doubt most would go to the trouble. They'd either pick whoever they thought had played the best game against their team in the season, or they'd have about 6-8 players in the discussion and would go with the vibe of the group they were discussing it with.

 

[PhatBoy]

The problem with voting awards for each game, it assumes that a 13 goal performance is equal to 28 disposals performance with no goals, because you have to award the same amount of votes each game.


I don't understand how awarding an arbitrary 3,2,1 in a game is logical, because you're assuming:

1. every game is exactly the same, if on value or of weight
2. That the people adjudicating the game, their job is to look at free kicks, do not care about who's best on ground after running for 10km

How is it that the best players of all time Matthews, Dunstall, Ablett, Carey, Barassi, Franklin, to name a few have never won a Brownlow?

Imagine someone that has never watched our sport, you told them a list of the greatest players and said not one of them was ever awarded the best player award. Can you imagine Messi, Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona never winning the FIFA player of the year?

Literally said this in the Bontempelli thread itself. It’s why now match by match voting system will ever be perfect or close to it.

humble brag alert
I once won a best and fairest in my local cricket league (and we are talking in a small country town) via these exact means because every game HAD to have a 3-2-1 awarded. I was probably the best player in my team, and my team was rubbish, so every time we played another rubbish team I was a huge chance of picking up three votes just by making 30-40 runs or taking 3 wickets in a game best described as disgraceful.

Meanwhile in a game between two sides stacked with good players someone could smack 80 at a run a ball and take 5-20 and their performance is weighted the same as mine, and another player could make 60 and take 4 wickets and pick up less points, against a far better opponent.

 

[Belnakor]

Imagine someone that has never watched our sport, you told them a list of the greatest players and said not one of them was ever awarded the best player award. Can you imagine Messi, Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona never winning the FIFA player of the year?

You realise the Fifa player of the year is a popularity contest yeah ?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I agree with others that the system of this award may have its faults...but look at the winners...

It generally, if not always, gets them right.

You don't have the Wowoedin, Cooney, Priddis (or even Neale last year), types winning this award. You also don't have years where there is a clear best player that doesn't win it (like the other awards). You have Carey in the late 90's, Riewoldt and Tredrea finishing 1 and 2, peak Ablett winning consistently, Swan in 2010, Bont now winning - it's a very fair reflection of the actual MVP. You even don't have the best player ruled out due to some technicality style suspension.

Generally, if you want a good idea of who the best player is for a given season - the MVP has been the closest reflection of that amongst all the awards.

 

[Back One Out]

Agree with the idea that it's overrated. Most players would give it less than five seconds' thought. The voting is often ridiculously lopsided, like the winner polls more than double what his nearest rival polls.

The beauty of the MVP award is that it isn’t beholden to silly scoring systems based on weekly games. It’s just a straight up poll of players to determine who they think is the AFL’s best player. There is a simplicity and purity to that voting system which cannot be denied.

Like somebody asking you to simply name your top 5 movies of all time (versus giving them all a score out of 10 in various sub-categories like acting, script, cinematography, etc and then adding up the scores to determine your top 5)

The MVP award (like any of the other awards) can be pulled and picked apart. People can denigrate it and find all sorts of reasons why it’s bullshit… Fair enough… Except all the individual awards are a load of bullshit!

Footy is a team game with one objective: WIN! (Win the game... Win the premiership... etc...)

However, if we are going to indulge our childish impulses to champion the so-called “best players”, then why not trust the players’ poll??? Everyone says they have NFI and it’s just a popularity contest. But how is that different to every other opinion-based award ?

When coaches award their weekly 5-4-3-2-1 votes, that’s also a “popularity contest” for that one game. Are you telling me that Michael Voss isn't biased towards Patrick Cripps and sometimes he overlooks someone like a Nic Newman ? Or that Craig McRae isn't biased towards Nick Daicos and perhaps he should've given his 4 and 5 votes to Howe and Crisp and only 3 votes to Nick ?

When Isaac Heeney receives 10 votes from the coaches in successive games vs Collingwood and Essendon (or successive 3’s from the umpires), that’s no more accurate in determining the league's Best Footballer of the Year than a majority of AFL players thinking “Yeah, nah… I reckon the Bont is the best player in the league”

It’s just a different metric

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Ì

The cynic in me would suggest that many coaches would find it difficult not to swap a 5 for a 3, or a 3 for a 5 when it will undoubtedly help one of his own player's chances of winning. And of course, the coaches votes differ in that the voters know precisely who's still a chance of winning and who's out of contention by the final rounds.

McRae did this only a few weeks ago. He gave Nick Daicos 5 votes (Voss gave him none) in the Blues v Pies game in Round 21.

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

Daicos had 28 ineffective disposals, one goal, less clearances than Pendlebury, 50% disposal efficiency.

A pretty selfish decision by McRae and the votes that ended up winning him the award.

 

[big_e]

Can you imagine Messi, Ronaldo, Pele or Maradona never winning the FIFA player of the year?

Pele and Maradona never won the FIFA player of the year award.