Lions vs Cats vs Hawks - Which dynasty is the best?

[hawker11]

Can you please expand upon this?

I've seen plenty of people claiming that Hawthorn's run of success is due to the expansion clubs and free agency, but I've yet to see any convincing argument about it, or any details or evidence put forth about how exactly this has benefitted the Hawks.

People just seem to be mindlessly echoing each other and convincing themselves of this "truth".

Exactly - one of the "theories" from supporters that cannot bring themselves to credit Hawthorn's achievement and recognise that they are one of the best run clubs on and off the field. This "expansion club and free agency" claim has been rolled out without any level of explanation (i.e. Club X would have drafted player X and their team would likely defeat hawthorn in year X). You only have to look at the strategy adopted by Hawthorn to turn over their list (out of necessity) after the 08 flag to realise its a case of superb list management that had Hawthorn contesting Grand Finals in every year since 2012.

 

[Pessimistic]

How weird would it be if, like when brissy went for the fourth flag, that port power are the opponent ?

 

[dean31]

Only a truly jilted mind could interpret supporters of the side who has won the past 3 premierships as wallowing in pity. You need to be studied. You're a real specimen.

Got that right, Nut Sakia is an extremely delusional fool.

 

[Back One Out]

Exactly - one of the "theories" from supporters that cannot bring themselves to credit Hawthorn's achievement and recognise that they are one of the best run clubs on and off the field. This "expansion club and free agency" claim has been rolled out without any level of explanation (i.e. Club X would have drafted player X and their team would likely defeat hawthorn in year X). You only have to look at the strategy adopted by Hawthorn to turn over their list (out of necessity) after the 08 flag to realise its a case of superb list management that had Hawthorn contesting Grand Finals in every year since 2012.

Imagine Geelong knocked off Hawthorn in the 2013 Prelim and then Fremantle & Geelong fought an epic Grand Final

Imagine if Port snatched victory over Hawthorn in the 2014 Prelim and then got rolled by the Swans in the GF with Buddy kicking 7 goals.

Imagine if Fremantle had been cleaner & taken their opportunities v Hawthorn in the 2015 Prelim, and Roughie & Suckling had missed those long bombs. Imagine we'd been treated to an epic WA Derby Grand Final with NicNat taking a hanger and kicking the winning goal after the siren.

If these things had happened, do you think there would be ANY DISCUSSION about "weakened competitions" or the "unfairness" of free agency? The conversation would be about the Hawthorn chokers. The premiership clubs would be celebrated. The AFL would be patting themselves on the back for creating such a vibrant competition.

It's pretty obvious the snarky discussion about the Hawthorn threepeat has been driven by jealous people trying to undermine Hawthorn's achievement instead of giving rational & valid reasons why the club has been successful.

Personally, I can't see how FA or expansion even comes into the picture. Not with the current pecking order of established top teams. Maybe over the next 2-3 years we'll see its full effects, but not so much from 2010-2015.

 

[nowhereneargeelong]

Imagine Geelong knocked off Hawthorn in the 2013 Prelim and then Fremantle & Geelong fought an epic Grand Final

Imagine if Port snatched victory over Hawthorn in the 2014 Prelim and then got rolled by the Swans in the GF with Buddy kicking 7 goals.

Imagine if Fremantle had been cleaner & taken their opportunities v Hawthorn in the 2015 Prelim. Imagine if Roughie & Suckling had missed those long bombs. Imagine we'd been treated to an epic WA Derby Grand Final with NicNat taking a hanger and kicking the winning goal after the siren.

If these things had happened, do you think there would be ANY DISCUSSION about "weakened competitions" or the "unfairness" of free agency? The conversation would be about the Hawthorn chokers. The premiership clubs would be celebrated. The AFL would be patting themselves on the back for creating such a vibrant competition.

It's pretty obvious the snarky discussion about the Hawthorn threepeat has been driven by jealous people trying to undermine Hawthorn's achievement instead of giving rational & valid reasons why the club has been successful. Personally, I can't see how FA or expansion even comes into the picture. Maybe over the next 5 years we'll see it full effects, but not so much from 2010-2015.

He's right you know...

 

[Smooth Banana]

 

[STFU Donnie]

This Nakia chap is persistent isn't he? Perhaps he missed the last two seasons?

2014: Hawthorn - Premiers; Geelong - dismissed from the finals in straight sets.
2015: Hawthorn - Premiers; Geelong - did not make the finals.

 

[Fabes]

How weird would it be if, like when brissy went for the fourth flag, that port power are the opponent ?

Good chance I reckon

 

[OldLion]

In support of the Lions .. beating Essendon ( best. team. ever. apparently. ) and Collingwood ( twice ) was SO satisfying. Hawks have beaten Freo, Swans and Eagles .. doesn't have the same oomph. When you wipe the floor with Pies fans , you can join the club.

 

[Hawkk]

The Pies did go 15/10 and 17/1/9 in 2002 and 2003 and had hacks like Johnson, Steinfort, Lonie, OBree, Betheras, McKee and Scotland (that was only in 2002) spudding it up

In 2003 it was Lokan, Cole, Kinnear, Walker and Jason Cloke

The Lions did the country a great service in ensuring they didnt become premiership players

 

[SSSSSS]

In support of the Lions .. beating Essendon ( best. team. ever. apparently. ) and Collingwood ( twice ) was SO satisfying. Hawks have beaten Freo, Swans and Eagles .. doesn't have the same oomph. When you wipe the floor with Pies fans , you can join the club.

Beat Geelong the "Greatest team of all " (farcical claim really) in 08.

Turfed Sydney after they stole our best player and showed them as the pretenders they truly are.

Freo side was better quality than Collingwood. I'll give the Pies > West Coast though.

I'm pretty happy with the collective asspain we have caused the past 7 years. Case in point, Nakia who is still scarred for life.

 

[Hawkk]

On reflection it was quite an achievement to get Collingwood to the 2003 finals series with a forward line of -

OBree, Jason Cloke, Burns
Kinnear, Walker, Tarrant

Thats basically a start up bottom 4 forward line

 

[Samthegun]

Who is cherry picking?

1. All 3 sides won 3 flags.

2. Geelong had a better side.... more AA's, broke countless records, etc, etc

3. Geelong didn't need to lose a final and weren't gifted 3 interstate sides on the MCG.

4. Longevity.

5. Geelong didn't need to top up with players from other clubs.

I could go on and on but your entitled, bandwagon supporter base doesn't take too kindly with the notion that Geelong's was actually better... they prefer to chest puff constantly about a 3 peat, when in the grand scheme of things means zilch when 3 premierships is 3 premierships.

Have fun getting antsy, I'm off to let you wallow in your pity.

All five points are cherry picking. Just ignore the facts that you don't like and highlight the ones that you do.

 

[Samthegun]

This Nakia chap is persistent isn't he? Perhaps he missed the last two seasons?

2014: Hawthorn - Premiers; Geelong - dismissed from the finals in straight sets.
2015: Hawthorn - Premiers; Geelong - did not make the finals.

It's like a black hole that he wants to avoid at all costs. The stuff of nightmares. He's living in avoidance. It's quite comical to see!

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

All five points are cherry picking. Just ignore the facts that you don't like and highlight the ones that you do.

Which are?

So far all I keep hearing are either a 3peat or a flag that cannot be included in this discussion.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

This Nakia chap is persistent isn't he? Perhaps he missed the last two seasons?

2014: Hawthorn - Premiers; Geelong - dismissed from the finals in straight sets.
2015: Hawthorn - Premiers; Geelong - did not make the finals.

When did I ever say those seasons were included in Geelong's dynasty discussion?

 

[Samthegun]

Which are?

So far all I keep hearing are either a 3peat or a flag that cannot be included in this discussion.

So you can't include 3peat in a discussion about which team is greater? You're not even worth having a debate with!

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So you can't include 3peat in a discussion about which team is greater? You're not even worth having a debate with!

Of course you can. Who said you can't? Not me.

 

[Samthegun]

Of course you can. Who said you can't? Not me.

So you rate the 3peat, do you?

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Which are?

So far all I keep hearing are either a 3peat or a flag that cannot be included in this discussion.

Last year when Hawks went back to back the excuse was 'yeah but Geelong have more 3 time premierships players'.... so how many 4 time premierships players did Geelong have from their era?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So you rate the 3peat, do you?

Of course I rate the 3peat and Hawthorn accomplishments... I merely rate Geelong's era as better, and that's not trolling either.

Geelong's side was simply more dominant... they had more brilliance.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Last year when Hawks went back to back the excuse was 'yeah but Geelong have more 3 time premierships players'.... so how many 4 time premierships players did Geelong have from their era?

Hawthorn may have 4 time premiership players but that's irrelevant as a result of you missing the finals in 08... you simply can't include a mediocre period in any dynasty discussion. I'm not sure how many times I need to explain this before it sinks in.

 

[Samthegun]

Of course I rate the 3peat and Hawthorn accomplishments... I merely rate Geelong's era as better, and that's not trolling either.

Geelong's side was simply more dominant... they had more brilliance.

OK, well would you go so far as to say that if the argument about the better dynasty involved a points system, then Brisbane and Hawthorn would get points for the 3peat where Geelong wouldn't?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

How weird would it be if, like when brissy went for the fourth flag, that port power are the opponent ?

That thought crossed my mind the other day. Not out of the realms of possibility either.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

OK, well would you go so far as to say that if the argument about the better dynasty involved a points system, then Brisbane and Hawthorn would get points for the 3peat where Geelong wouldn't?

And Geelong gain points for longevity?