List management and the end of the 2012 season.

[Nothing]

So who do we take in the PSD?

I'll back the SHBF please.

 

[apuchar]

That tall bloke from SA who likes to kick goals.

Hardy.

 

[Swan Districts Kid]

Not me. But I can tell the difference between "bagging out the club for drafting" a particular player, and posters discussing drafting strategy and the developing needs of our list. Great ammunition for discussion in a public forum.

For me the debate should really be about pick 17. That is where we needed to go tall if we wanted to get a look at the best possible forward prospect. Obviously no-one knew just how many of the dominos would fall between pick 17 and 36. The club seems to have clearly had the eyes on Simpson and Duffy though. Perhaps they expected to have another couple of options at #36.

Totally agree. The majority of Dockers media statements prior to the draft were about needing to address a lack of depth in tall forwards. Immediately after the draft I was pissed that the club didn't for once deviate from the 'best available' strategy at pick 17, but punted on a quality young KPF sliding. Would have personally been happier with a 'safety first' approach & now have a Shaw, White or O'Brien on our list now.

Was interesting at the AGM last night that Lyon made a comment to the effect "It is disappointing that we didn't recruit a Key Forward in the draft" (which he didn't immediately qualify with some comment like "but we're very happy with the draft outcome"). That comment, together with the long pause prior to pick 36 suggests to me that Dockers really didn't contemplate a tall forward not falling to Pick 36 & were caught off guard.

 

[apuchar]

No they said they were going to take Duffy there. The fact that Simpson slipped meant we had to take a tall at 36 instead of Duffy. We then had to choose between Smith, Wood, Membrey and others like Colledge, Howson etc.

 

[strobe00]

Sounds probable if we have concerns about his concussion.

For what it's worth, I think the concussion thing is a very long bow to draw. After the episode of nausea he experienced during the season, they made him take time off to get it right.

No worries after that. I think it was more a depth thing than anything else. While MDB and Clancee were available, Lower had very little chance of grabbing a spot in the team. And that assumes that young blokes like Neale and Shero don't step up.

Wouldn't have picked him to be one of those delisted, but it makes sense in hindsight.

 

[strobe00]

Lower, Broughton, McPhee. We are going to need to find some hardnuts.

Never thought of Broughton as a hard nut. Two out of three aint bad though.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

Not me. But I can tell the difference between "bagging out the club for drafting" a particular player, and posters discussing drafting strategy and the developing needs of our list. Great ammunition for discussion in a public forum.

For me the debate should really be about pick 17. That is where we needed to go tall if we wanted to get a look at the best possible forward prospect. Obviously no-one knew just how many of the dominos would fall between pick 17 and 36. The club seems to have clearly had the eyes on Simpson and Duffy though. Perhaps they expected to have another couple of options at #36.

that's the gamble and i don't mind that they took the punt. it's amazing what a highlights package can do to sway opinion and suddenly the fate of a nobody is beholden to the fickle prejudices of a vocal few.

 

[Swan Districts Kid]

No they said they were going to take Duffy there. The fact that Simpson slipped meant we had to take a tall at 36 instead of Duffy. We then had to choose between Smith, Wood, Membrey and others like Colledge, Howson etc.

Apuchar, I don't want to bore everyone sh1tless with a long-winded I'm right / you're wrong debate. It all basically comes down to whether you think getting Simpson with pick 17 was strategically wiser than taking a quality young KPF, & I reckon there was more percentage in the latter strategy. Personal opinion only regarding draft strategy.
Having said that, I sincerely hope that Simpson, Duffy & Smith kick ass.

Now let's draft Justin Hardy.

 

[malpaso]

Was interesting at the AGM last night that Lyon made a comment to the effect "It is disappointing that we didn't recruit a Key Forward in the draft"

Yeah, you could see Lyon's reaction right after Bond told Lloyd? to draft Tanner Smith. He was disappointed but that was either because so many talls got selected ahead of us or we decided to go with a KPD. I suspect it was the former.
To be honest we were caught out with bad luck basically by Brisbane and Port Adelaide, it was the right gamble to take as most teams with a collection of picks close together rarely take the same position with each pick esp. when they are KPP. Brisbane took 3 of them! and Port 2 in a row.

 

[apuchar]

Apuchar, I don't want to bore everyone sh1tless with a long-winded I'm right / you're wrong debate. It all basically comes down to whether you think getting Simpson with pick 17 was strategically wiser than taking a quality young KPF, & I reckon there was more percentage in the latter strategy. Personal opinion only regarding draft strategy.
Having said that, I sincerely hope that Simpson, Duffy & Smith kick arse.

Now let's draft Justin Hardy.

I would have taken the tall.
And I agree about Justin Hardy.

 

[apuchar]

Yeah, you could see Lyon's reaction right after Bond told Lloyd? to draft Tanner Smith. He was disappointed but that was either because so many talls got selected ahead of us or we decided to go with a KPD. I suspect it was the former.
To be honest we were caught out with bad luck basically by Brisbane and Port Adelaide, it was the right gamble to take as most teams with a collection of picks close together rarely take the same position with each pick esp. when they are KPP. Brisbane took 3 of them! and Port 2 in a row.

Just as much chance that he was disappointed that they had to risk losing Duffy if they left him to the next pick.

 

[Docker Dolph]

The last true crabs that played I bagged where Schammer and Hinkley.

Johnson and McPhee both copped it unnecessarily from you and others.

There'll be others, with our supporters there always is. We're not alone there tho, see Masten, Swift, Salopek, Cross, Grant, Waite, Vickery for eg from other clubs. It's human nature and we've all done it to some degree. Some just more than others.

Keplar, Gu, Griff, Zac, Pearce(s), Pitt and even Hilly all probable targets next year.

 

[freocuz]

Has there been anything further on Ibbo? Is he still uncontracted as far as we know?

 

[Seppo]

Johnson and McPhee both copped it unnecessarily from you and others.

There'll be others, with our supporters there always is. We're not alone there tho, see Masten, Swift, Salopek, Cross, Grant, Waite, Vickery for eg from other clubs. It's human nature and we've all done it to some degree. Some just more than others.

Keplar, Gu, Griff, Zac, Pearce(s), Pitt and even Hilly all probable targets next year.

I've never bagged Mcphee and the MJ pointing was just a Bigfooty in-joke in a year where not many things went right for us and many of us needed to see the funnier side. He always had the talent, never a scape goat...

 

[Freo Shark]

...the MJ pointing was just a Bigfooty in-joke in a year where not many things went right for us and many of us needed to see the funnier side. He always had the talent, never a scape goat...

I think you were making a point about his efforts, I do agree with your sentiment behind the joke. It wasnt done with malice as you say.

 

[Jezzitizle]

I've never bagged Mcphee and the MJ pointing was just a Bigfooty in-joke in a year where not many things went right for us and many of us needed to see the funnier side. He always had the talent, never a scape goat...

hmm MJ got smashed from pillar to post in here, there was alot of jokes, but there were many people who would of been delighted if he were traded too..

 

[Freo2012]

hmm MJ got smashed from pillar to post in here, there was alot of jokes, but there were many people who would of been delighted if he were traded too..

Yes - and everyone is f'kn ecstatic that he turned it around - whatever the underlying causes (attitude, coach, position etc) You should realize you cannot have 1 or 2 excellent years out of 6 with the rest pathetic for every one of your starting 22 - that only give you a third of your team each year living up to their abilities (unless all have their excellent ones in the same year). On that basis you'll never make finals - you need a team of players that put in ALL the time and obviously that is part of the mentality RTB brings in the pursuit of our first flag.

 

[Docker Dolph]

I've never bagged Mcphee and the MJ pointing was just a Bigfooty in-joke in a year where not many things went right for us and many of us needed to see the funnier side. He always had the talent, never a scape goat...

Sorry, not McPhee, it was Dawson wasn't it.

The MJ stuff wasn't a joke, it began with exactly the sort of derisive rubbish that usually exemplifies the scapegoating stuff - an exaggerated half truth blown in to a full on rubbishing. With MJ it was how he was too lazy to do it himself and always got other people to chase or to work hard for him - never working hard always just pointing. At the end it may have been a joke but it certainly wasn't when it started and it was crap the whole way through.

It was the very definition of scapegoating - levelling all frustrations at the feet of one person rather than seeing the facts.

Then last season it was Dawson until the team hit form and you and most of the others who were on him early finally realised his value.

It shouldn't be about you because your far from the worst but Byron wasn't your last target.

Even though I hate hearing/reading it, I know I'm guilty of doing it too so I agree it's great that it's getting harder to identify possible goats.

On that point, it wouldn't surprise me if Tanner Smith becomes an early escaped goat. As the only big we grabbed in the draft the chicken little brigade will be on him hard if he plays and doesn't hit his straps right away. I think the favourite is Zac though, he's had the big build up in expectations so people will turn on him if he's not an effective performer next year. Next in line Pitt because he's not Jack D.

 

[Big Flappy]

McPhee and Zac Dawson both had to put up with this cr*p from the crowd. Every time they went near the ball the crowd would murmur and you'd hear a few jeers if they didnt make a mistake to a full on boo fest if they did. Thankfully these two are older and more mature and have been around long enough to not take it personally and they went about their business.

Like you say the two obvious targets for this to happen to next season are Jayden Pitt and Zac Clarke. This type of crowd reaction could kill a kids confidence and then often their career (Imagine being 20 years old and having 40000 people just waiting for you to stuff up so they can rip you apart). I think its a big reason MJ couldnt get it together in 2011 and you just have to look down the road and see what it did to young Tom Swift.

 

[Docker Dolph]

(Imagine being 20 years old and having 40000 people just waiting for you to stuff up so they can rip you apart). I think its a big reason MJ couldnt get it together in 2011 and you just have to look down the road and see what it did to young Tom Swift.

Yep, and Schammer's troubles started after 1 bad game against North where we had him fill in for Hayden as the distributor coming out of defence at Subi. The crowd were on him after 3 early kicking errors and it just got worse. If you watch him before than game and then after the difference is incredible.

We beat Brissie in a tight game at Subi in Dessie's first year, Schammer was brilliant that day. If you watch his last few games before his long slow death he's not the same guy.

No doubt it shouldn't affect players, but it's not impossible to understand. Your Swift example is even better.

 

[prattsta]

Sorry, not McPhee, it was Dawson wasn't it.

The MJ stuff wasn't a joke, it began with exactly the sort of derisive rubbish that usually exemplifies the scapegoating stuff - an exaggerated half truth blown in to a full on rubbishing. With MJ it was how he was too lazy to do it himself and always got other people to chase or to work hard for him - never working hard always just pointing. At the end it may have been a joke but it certainly wasn't when it started and it was crap the whole way through.

It was the very definition of scapegoating - levelling all frustrations at the feet of one person rather than seeing the facts.

Then last season it was Dawson until the team hit form and you and most of the others who were on him early finally realised his value.

It shouldn't be about you because your far from the worst but Byron wasn't your last target.

Even though I hate hearing/reading it, I know I'm guilty of doing it too so I agree it's great that it's getting harder to identify possible goats.

On that point, it wouldn't surprise me if Tanner Smith becomes an early escaped goat. As the only big we grabbed in the draft the chicken little brigade will be on him hard if he plays and doesn't hit his straps right away. I think the favourite is Zac though, he's had the big build up in expectations so people will turn on him if he's not an effective performer next year. Next in line Pitt because he's not Jack D.

MJ copped it, because at the time he was a close to a symbol of everything wrong with our club as you could get. He WAS Fremantle and Fremantle sucked. All potential, no substance. Brilliantly... inconsistent.

I was as critical of him on here as anyone. I am as happy that he - like the club - has FINALLY started to put it all together as anyone.

 

[Freo_4eva]

^^^ This, MJ deserved everything he got on here at the time.. and there is a difference between discussing on here and those clowns in the crowd who get on particular players backs.

The two numpties in front of my still give Dawson non stop s*** throughout the game as well as McPhee, they are quite football educated in general as well.. obviously some players just blind normally decent supporters into moments of insanity

 

[greatgatsby]

^^^ This, MJ deserved everything he got on here at the time.. and there is a difference between discussing on here and those clowns in the crowd who get on particular players backs.

The two numpties in front of my still give Dawson non stop s*** throughout the game as well as McPhee, they are quite football educated in general as well.. obviously some players just blind normally decent supporters into moments of insanity

What I hate about it is it's a public sign of weakness. All clubs have spuds - trick is to do something about it internally while never admitting it publicly.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

What I hate about it is it's a public sign of weakness. All clubs have spuds - trick is to do something about it internally while never admitting it publicly.

This is as close to spud free as we have ever been. Can't name one.
We just delisted Nick lower because he was surplus to our needs and Bulldogs are gleefully rubbing their hands at the prospect of getting him. A tale of the two playing lists although Nick is no spud.

 

[malpaso]

This is as close to spud free as we have ever been. Can't name one.
We just delisted Nick lower because he was surplus to our needs and Bulldogs are gleefully rubbing their hands at the prospect of getting him. A tale of the two playing lists although Nick is no spud.

Pitt