McLean trade the best outcome for Melbourne

[Daytripper]

What are you on about?

We are at the bare minimum of our salary cap, we have a heap of room in our cap.

Sorry - I heard something else.

That makes the McLean move even stranger though. Surely you could afford to pay him what you want then - not only that it keeps you above the minimum. Win win for both.

 

[Invigoration]

So because of Melbourne's lack of flexibility, they are going to get rid of one of their more mature and experienced players and replace him with a school boy twig? Well when you put it that way, I'm sure this new kid will cover a range of different spots on the field.

If you are trading 23 year olds because you are 5 years away, why keep Moloney, why keep Davey, why keep Miller? Trade them all and get more draft picks I say, what could possibly go wrong?
Or maybe this stupid club wouldn't be in this position if they didn't play their out and out midfielders as forward ****ing pockets. Sure Melbourne probably haven't done to badly considering the circumstances, but they only have themselves to blame for the circumstances.

Pretty obvious that Melbourne supporters are in melt down control here, trying to deflect and act as if they are pleased with this outcome. Still, I guess Melbourne do have 4 picks in the top 20 so that means they are virtually assured a premiership right?
I mean you only have to look at Melbourne's trading past to realise that draft picks always work;

Woewodin for pick 14,
Pick 14 = Daniel Bell (flop)

Scott Thompson for pick 12, (traded on)
Pick 12 = Danny Meyer (flop)

Darren Jolly for pick 15,
Pick 15 = Lynden Dunn (flop)

It is all well and good to have 4 picks in the top 20, until those four picks turn out to be Lynden Dunn, Danny Meyer, Daniel Bell and a nice big KPP prospect (Butcher) in Kepler Bradley.

Just incase you guys are planning on planning Aaron Davey in the ruck or something and he isn't happy, Collingwood will gladly give you another pick in the top 20 if you like. Think of that, 5 picks in the top 20!!

 

[Invigoration]

McLean walked you idiot, It's not like we just offloaded him for another draft pick. I think we did pretty well to get pick 11 for an uncontracted player who wanted to leave.

Yep, so the question has to be asked, how is Melbourne ****ing up so badly that it's top 5 picks are choosing to simply walk out the door. It isn't as if he is asking to go home or anything, he is running away from your club to move across town.

If I wake up tomorrow and Scott Pendlebury has decided to pack up his bags so he can venture across the road to another club, needless to say I'm gonna be pretty ****ing pissed off.

 

[mjr_42]

Scott Thompson for pick 12, (traded on)
Pick 12 = Danny Meyer (flop)

Don't be deliberately misleading. We traded pick 12 for Brent Moloney. That's working out OK for us now. What Richmond did with that pick is no reflection on Melbourne's football department.

You've also conveniently left out the Travis Johnstone trade for pick 14. That landed us Jack Grimes. Again, I'd say he looks mildly promising.

Of the trio you mentioned, only Woewodin was a trade initiated by Melbourne. The others wanted to leave for various reasons (Thompson homesick, Jolly greater opportunity).

Or you could just ignore the facts like you've done so well already.

 

[mjr_42]

Pretty obvious that Melbourne supporters are in melt down control here, trying to deflect and act as if they are pleased with this outcome. Still, I guess Melbourne do have 4 picks in the top 20 so that means they are virtually assured a premiership right?

No meltdown control here.

Most supporters aren't pleased with the turn of events, but given the circumstances of McLean requesting a trade and the impending compromised draft, pick 11 is a reasonable return.

And of course there's no guarantee of a premiership. But what is certain is that the club will have an enviable stockpile of elite youngsters on the eve of a three-year period when the best of that talent will be off limits to the 16 existing clubs.

 

[AG]

And of course there's no guarantee of a premiership. But what is certain is that the club will have an enviable stockpile of elite youngsters on the eve of a three-year period when the best of that talent will be off limits to the 16 existing clubs.

How do you know they will be elite?

 

[Demonheart]

Sorry - I heard something else.

That makes the McLean move even stranger though. Surely you could afford to pay him what you want then - not only that it keeps you above the minimum. Win win for both.

Not really, McLean has been very poor over the last two seasons, Bailey is correct in not over paying an average player just because he wants it.
This is the ruthless decisions that Melbourne's been needing over the last 4 decades, previous administrations would have caved in

 

[RoJo Junior]

Well Scott Thompson is far superior than Brent Moloney so that was a horrible, horrible decision.

Carlton can do well out of this. However, this could prove to be a big bust if they fail to win a premiership next year or the year after. Once Fev moves out of his prime they'll have to trade for a key forward to stay competitive. Jack Watts for Carltons first rounder in 2011?

 

[Demonheart]

Yep, so the question has to be asked, how is Melbourne ****ing up so badly that it's top 5 picks are choosing to simply walk out the door. It isn't as if he is asking to go home or anything, he is running away from your club to move across town.

If I wake up tomorrow and Scott Pendlebury has decided to pack up his bags so he can venture across the road to another club, needless to say I'm gonna be pretty ****ing pissed off.

He may have been a pick 5 but over the last two years he's been playing like an 8th rounder. Even this year he wasn't good enough to start in the centre square, and in the future it'll get harder and harder for him.
But let's just get our facts right, he's going to Carlton because he can get more money, he's not prepared to do the hard yards to improve his game and he thinks Carlton will win a premiership before Melbourne.

I hardly think that proves that Melbourne is ****ing up, but if it helps you sleep better at night knock yourself out

 

[mjr_42]

How do you know they will be elite?

I don't know if they'll become elite senior footballers. No one does.

But the likes of Cale Morton, Jack Grimes, Jack Watts, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Tom Scully and (in all likelihood) Jackson Trengove are undeniably among the elite young players of their respective intakes.

Do you disagree?

 

[Mr_Vedder]

Not really, McLean has been very poor over the last two seasons, Bailey is correct in not over paying an average player just because he wants it.
This is the ruthless decisions that Melbourne's been needing over the last 4 decades, previous administrations would have caved in

McLean must have been rated by someone at Melb in 2008 to finish 2nd in the best and fairest despite only playing 14 games. Some serious spin doctoring going on here.

 

[demondavey]

So because of Melbourne's lack of flexibility, they are going to get rid of one of their more mature and experienced players and replace him with a school boy twig? Well when you put it that way, I'm sure this new kid will cover a range of different spots on the field.

If you are trading 23 year olds because you are 5 years away, why keep Moloney, why keep Davey, why keep Miller? Trade them all and get more draft picks I say, what could possibly go wrong?
Or maybe this stupid club wouldn't be in this position if they didn't play their out and out midfielders as forward ****ing pockets. Sure Melbourne probably haven't done to badly considering the circumstances, but they only have themselves to blame for the circumstances.

Pretty obvious that Melbourne supporters are in melt down control here, trying to deflect and act as if they are pleased with this outcome. Still, I guess Melbourne do have 4 picks in the top 20 so that means they are virtually assured a premiership right?
I mean you only have to look at Melbourne's trading past to realise that draft picks always work;

Woewodin for pick 14,
Pick 14 = Daniel Bell (flop)

Scott Thompson for pick 12, (traded on)
Pick 12 = Danny Meyer (flop)

Darren Jolly for pick 15,
Pick 15 = Lynden Dunn (flop)

It is all well and good to have 4 picks in the top 20, until those four picks turn out to be Lynden Dunn, Danny Meyer, Daniel Bell and a nice big KPP prospect (Butcher) in Kepler Bradley.

Just incase you guys are planning on planning Aaron Davey in the ruck or something and he isn't happy, Collingwood will gladly give you another pick in the top 20 if you like. Think of that, 5 picks in the top 20!!

Point 1: BROCK MCLEAN WANTED TO LEAVE WE DIDNT COME OUT AND SAY HEY BROCK YOUR GETTING TRADED - Try and think first. In the circumstance pick 11 is excellent for a PLAYER WAN-TING TO BE TRA-DED

Point 2: Have ourselves to blame? Not every draft choice turns out to be a star do they? Had some picks that havent gone the way we wanted but we also have a young list and atm things are going the way we want. Circumstances? Everyone rebuilds sunshine

Point 3: When and how are assured a flag? Hmmm loose thinking. Melbourne now has FOUR SELECTIONS in the top 20 before a draft whereby GC will be assigned the majority of selections!! The more picks this year the better

Point 4: Scott Thompson wanted to go home - so we traded him? Do you get that?? Why bother playing hard ball and coming up with the line 'he is a required player' when he wants to leave?? It only makes things worse

I suggest you either go and troll on another board or go and play around on the collingwood board

 

[Demonheart]

So because of Melbourne's lack of flexibility, they are going to get rid of one of their more mature and experienced players and replace him with a school boy twig? Well when you put it that way, I'm sure this new kid will cover a range of different spots on the field.

If you are trading 23 year olds because you are 5 years away, why keep Moloney, why keep Davey, why keep Miller? Trade them all and get more draft picks I say, what could possibly go wrong?
Or maybe this stupid club wouldn't be in this position if they didn't play their out and out midfielders as forward ****ing pockets. Sure Melbourne probably haven't done to badly considering the circumstances, but they only have themselves to blame for the circumstances.

Pretty obvious that Melbourne supporters are in melt down control here, trying to deflect and act as if they are pleased with this outcome. Still, I guess Melbourne do have 4 picks in the top 20 so that means they are virtually assured a premiership right?
I mean you only have to look at Melbourne's trading past to realise that draft picks always work;

Woewodin for pick 14,
Pick 14 = Daniel Bell (flop)

Scott Thompson for pick 12, (traded on)
Pick 12 = Danny Meyer (flop)

Darren Jolly for pick 15,
Pick 15 = Lynden Dunn (flop)

It is all well and good to have 4 picks in the top 20, until those four picks turn out to be Lynden Dunn, Danny Meyer, Daniel Bell and a nice big KPP prospect (Butcher) in Kepler Bradley.

Just incase you guys are planning on planning Aaron Davey in the ruck or something and he isn't happy, Collingwood will gladly give you another pick in the top 20 if you like. Think of that, 5 picks in the top 20!!

You're talking through your arse, Melbourne got pick 12 to trade for Moloney. It's irrelevant who the pick was used for because we were never going to end up with it. Now tell me how poorly Moloney did this year. Oh yeah that's right, Melbourne trades always fail

Dunn is still on the list and has been putting in some very good performances thank you very much and Bell has been decimated by injuries over the last two years.

But of course feel free to rewrite history to prove your point

While we're talking about trading players for first round picks you've conveniently forgotten Johnstone, I hear that kid Grimes goes ok

 

[Daytripper]

I don't know if they'll become elite senior footballers. No one does.

But the likes of Cale Morton, Jack Grimes, Jack Watts, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Tom Scully and (in all likelihood) Jackson Trengove are undeniably among the elite young players of their respective intakes.

Do you disagree?

Morton is good. Grimes is reasonable. Watts has barely played but you would think he should turn out to be better than average.

Blease and Strauss haven't played a game and in fact I don't think they have played a game outside of aged football either.

Scully should be good and the no 2 pick (whoever that is) should be reasonable as well.

PS : The ironic thing is you were probably saying the same thing 5 years ago when McLean and Sylvia debuted.

 

[AG]

I don't know if they'll become elite senior footballers. No one does.

But the likes of Cale Morton, Jack Grimes, Jack Watts, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Tom Scully and (in all likelihood) Jackson Trengove are undeniably among the elite young players of their respective intakes.

Do you disagree?

They were elite in school football and the TAC. It doesn't always translate into AFL form though. Morton and Grimes look good bets. The rest I haven't seen enough of to form an opinion but it seems their reputations are purely based on junior football. Not saying they won't be good, just that it's risky to assume.

 

[mjr_42]

Well Scott Thompson is far superior than Brent Moloney so that was a horrible, horrible decision.

Carlton can do well out of this. However, this could prove to be a big bust if they fail to win a premiership next year or the year after. Once Fev moves out of his prime they'll have to trade for a key forward to stay competitive. Jack Watts for Carltons first rounder in 2011?

Can't you read? It wasn't Melbourne's decision to let Scott Thompson go. We knew exactly how valuable he was after he played some brilliant footy for us in 2004 after four years of development at the club.

He wanted to return to South Australia and we facilitated that.

We also had pick 13 in the same year, and we took Matthew Bate. The next established senior footballer to emerge from that draft was Angus Monfries (no. 14)and he's hardly set the world on fire. Given we had Aaron Davey as a small forward, Monfries was surplus to requirements.

We also had pick 15, and selected Lynden Dunn. While Dunn is yet to establish himself as a senior player, I don't consider him a write off after his strong finish to '09.

 

[Demonheart]

McLean must have been rated by someone at Melb in 2008 to finish 2nd in the best and fairest despite only playing 14 games. Some serious spin doctoring going on here.

Do you remember how badly Melbourne was in 2008? Finishing 2nd in our B&F that year is hardly an achievement.
Since then Moloney has gotten over his injuries, Sylvia has got his head together, Jones has developed, Grimes has got a full year under his belt, Davey has stepped up and McLean has gone backwards.

Talk about spin doctoring, before yesterday most Carlton fans thought McLean was a dud

 

[Invigoration]

Don't be deliberately misleading. We traded pick 12 for Brent Moloney. That's working out OK for us now. What Richmond did with that pick is no reflection on Melbourne's football department.

You've also conveniently left out the Travis Johnstone trade for pick 14. That landed us Jack Grimes. Again, I'd say he looks mildly promising.

Of the trio you mentioned, only Woewodin was a trade initiated by Melbourne. The others wanted to leave for various reasons (Thompson homesick, Jolly greater opportunity).

Or you could just ignore the facts like you've done so well already.

You completely missed the point, congratulations. It wasn't to outline who won or lost out of the trades, simply to show that they all resulted in draft picks around the number you just got and that they all flopped. Your supporters are trying to proclaim that you are doing the best thing getting earlier trade picks, it is all well and good when you manage to get a Jack Grimes but history shows you more often than not get a Daniel Bell.
Trading proven talented youth to get a chance at maybe drafting some potential talented youth is ridiculous.
2003, 10-20 reaped 2 decent players, the rest are mostly spuds
2004, 10-20 came out with probably 1, maybe 2 decent players. Again the rest are spuds or delisted
2005, 10-20, Higgins and Hurn, once again the rest are not much chop. Birchall is decent.
2006, 10-20, Brown brothers and Frawley are decent, couple have already been traded, a couple clearly won't make the grade.

The numbers aren't great, yet Melbourne are proclaiming that losing a talented and proven youngster for a pick after 10 (which historically proves it comes up with players that are not up to McLean's grade) is a good thing for their future.


Richmond didn't pick Danny Meyer FWIW.

No meltdown control here.

Most supporters aren't pleased with the turn of events, but given the circumstances of McLean requesting a trade and the impending compromised draft, pick 11 is a reasonable return.

And of course there's no guarantee of a premiership. But what is certain is that the club will have an enviable stockpile of elite youngsters on the eve of a three-year period when the best of that talent will be off limits to the 16 existing clubs.

This thread highlights how badly you guys are in meltdown control, your touted future captain decided to walk out of the club he donated $10k and 5 years too just so he can scroll across the street and play for someone else.
There isn't thread popping up from Carlton supporters trying to justify their trade, just like there isn't 10 page threads on their board with supporters venting their anger at losing their pick (player in Melbourne's case obviously).

Well no, you won't have a stockpile of elite youngsters, it doesn't work like that unfortunately. You'll have a bunch of unproven TAC cup kids and a lack of talent and experience at the top, not a great combination.

 

[mjr_42]

They were elite in school football and the TAC. It doesn't always translate into AFL form though. Morton and Grimes look good bets. The rest I haven't seen enough of to form an opinion but it seems their reputations are purely based on junior football. Not saying they won't be good, just that it's risky to assume.

You're the only one to make any assumptions about the ability of Melbourne's young players to translate their talent at junior level into senior success.

But as a club that was in serious need of a rebuild at the end of 2007 after running its list into the ground, I'd much rather be in Melbourne's position than North's or Richmond's on the eve of three years of compromised drafts.

 

[Demonheart]

You completely missed the point, congratulations.

Wrong, it's you who have completely missed the point

 

[Mr_Vedder]

He may have been a pick 5 but over the last two years he's been playing like an 8th rounder. Even this year he wasn't good enough to start in the centre square, and in the future it'll get harder and harder for him.
But let's just get our facts right, he's going to Carlton because he can get more money, he's not prepared to do the hard yards to improve his game and he thinks Carlton will win a premiership before Melbourne.

I hardly think that proves that Melbourne is ****ing up, but if it helps you sleep better at night knock yourself out

The bloke has been carrying injuries, playing out of position this year. Had no pre season and still been tagged and despite this has been okay this year and finished 2nd in the best and fairest in 2008 despite not playing much more than half a season. Not sure thats 8th rounder material to be honest.

 

[Go the Biff]

McLean must have been rated by someone at Melb in 2008 to finish 2nd in the best and fairest despite only playing 14 games. Some serious spin doctoring going on here.

I see your point but being second in our B&F last year was as great an endorsement as being called the best CHF in Kazakstan. Should have been Green anyway, had a much better year.

Will miss Brock but have no doubt that Ratten & Riley had been in his ear. MFC have got as good a deal as they could for a player walking. My biggest concern is why he walked. "Negative assignments" my arse. Can anyone recall Brock in a tagging role this year ?

 

[Invigoration]

He may have been a pick 5 but over the last two years he's been playing like an 8th rounder. Even this year he wasn't good enough to start in the centre square, and in the future it'll get harder and harder for him.
But let's just get our facts right, he's going to Carlton because he can get more money, he's not prepared to do the hard yards to improve his game and he thinks Carlton will win a premiership before Melbourne.

I hardly think that proves that Melbourne is ****ing up, but if it helps you sleep better at night knock yourself out

Proved he was good enough at the start, only makes you question how Melbourne has crippled him so badly.

I'd much prefer to spin this to make it shine a bad light on Carlton to be honest. I couldn't really care for Melbourne and I've no need to knock them, much to the contrary. This trade makes it hard to salvage any sort of win for Melbourne though.

 

[Demonheart]

The bloke has been carrying injuries, playing out of position this year. Had no pre season and still been tagged and despite this has been okay this year and finished 2nd in the best and fairest in 2008 despite not playing much more than half a season. Not sure thats 8th rounder material to be honest.

McLean's defensive skills are poor, Bailey has been trying to play him in a position to improve them. Is it that hard for you to understand?

 

[RoJo Junior]

Can't you read? It wasn't Melbourne's decision to let Scott Thompson go. We knew exactly how valuable he was after he played some brilliant footy for us in 2004 after four years of development at the club.

He wanted to return to South Australia and we facilitated that.

We also had pick 13 in the same year, and we took Matthew Bate. The next established senior footballer to emerge from that draft was Angus Monfries (no. 14)and he's hardly set the world on fire. Given we had Aaron Davey as a small forward, Monfries was surplus to requirements.

We also had pick 15, and selected Lynden Dunn. While Dunn is yet to establish himself as a senior player, I don't consider him a write off after his strong finish to '09.

I can read perfectly fine. The fact that you ontraded the same pick received for Thompson irrespective of the circumstances means you clearly lost out on that trade.

Despite the fact Davey has now moved into the midfield, you still stand by Monfries is surplus to requirements... I dont think Melbourne is in any form of position to claim an established player from another team is 'surplus to requirements'.