Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[Happyskeret]

Yep. Not just the wrong environment, but attitudes, priorities, passion and motivation actually walking the walk.

Plenty of AFL quality talent is running around playing country footy, because they can’t or won’t commit to the level of professionalism required to play at AFL level.

Plenty of those are retired AFL players, or those who had a crack at one time but fell out of the system, Mozzie style.

Plenty more are your Marlion Pickett and Tim Kelly types that only get themselves into the system as mature aged players because of family and priority related reasons.

And another bunch fall into Nic Martin territory, overlooked and hoping for another chance.


If you have those on your list, their talent means nothing. You can’t build a list expecting half the team to miraculously develop professionalism in an environment that never asked it of them.

This is why I think Brads Buzz word of an AFL lifestyle is golden. I don’t think you can send a clearer message to players of what that is supposed to mean.

 

[ant555]

This is why I think Brads Buzz word of an AFL lifestyle is golden. I don’t think you can send a clearer message to players of what that is supposed to mean.

Clarko had a similar one at North. Told the playing group he knew they could all play football but he was looking for players who could win finals and not simply play AFL.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Culture is a joke of a concept.

Congrats on outing yourself as one of the dumbest people on the board.

Culture is critical to how individuals come together and work as a team to create something that is greater than the sum of the parts. It is a powerful force within organisations, shaping individual behaviours and actions.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Congrats on outing yourself as one of the dumbest people on the board.

Culture is critical to how individuals come together and work as a team to create something that is greater than the sum of the parts. It is a powerful force within organisations, shaping individual behaviours and actions.

How do teams with terrible off field culture continually win premierships?

 

[Happyskeret]

How do teams with terrible off field culture continually win premierships?

Because they hired senior coaches from good cultures.

 

[BrunoV]

My point is it can’t be a goal. If you win a flag it just happens along the way. But it’s not something to aim for.

Clubs have. Carlton very publicly made statements about “winning a final” back in 2011. And they did. Predictably it was as far as they ever went. A elimination final. What a pathetic “achievement” to hang your hat on. By 2015 they were back where they belonged, collecting the wooden spoon.

Richmond went 21 years without “winning a final”. They would’ve lost their s**t, sacked the coach, convinced themselves it was some major achievement that they couldn’t unlock.

Of course, it wasn’t. Losing those finals didn’t mean anything. They weren’t good enough to win flags. That’s the goal. They got better, finished Top 4, which you have to, and won a flag. It didn’t make a lick of difference whether they’d “won a final” in previous years.

I really have little regard the Top 8, despite a single freak finals series by the Bulldogs in 2016. It’s clear as day that to challenge for the flag you have to go to the Top 4. Until you do, you’re just making up the numbers and winning elimination finals doesn’t make a difference.

What your saying is that winning a final can't be the ultimate goal. But no one has ever publicly stated that winning a final as opposed to a premiership is the ultimate goal.

The one time it gets close is Paul Roos and I think it was Richard Collis who said that Sydney could never afford to drop out of the finals (due to the way crowds would drop off). This was pre 05 flag. They literally couldn't afford the economics of being out of the finals. It gets as close to prioritising finals over a flag as you'll get...and what happened? It became the catalyst for the self replenishing success that delivered 6 GF appearances for 2 flags in 24 years (with a GF every 4 years in time not an average based on a single really successful run).

Carlton did not prioritise winning a final or even finals over a flag. It stated a goal which was the first step in the process. What it got wrong was overrating its list. Confirmed by the sacking of Ratten and appointment of Malthouse. It fell apart because they chased a flag with a rancid foundation. Ratten won a final, if they weren't after more they wouldn't have sacked him and appointed Malthouse.

Winning and being competitive in finals is maybe the first real test of a list build. Finals is the only time you can guarantee that your opponent is giving as much as it can give. It's not compromised by travel, training loads or motivation lapses that occurr during a season.

The history of premiers in the modern era is unequivocally that the players on the list are hardened finals players.

 

[BrunoV]

No? Your reply to him was long agreement then? My mistake.

Edit - just realised this really reads sarcastically. It was meant sincerely.

I think I've clarified as per the above.

 

[Happyskeret]

What your saying is that winning a final can't be the ultimate goal. But no one has ever publicly stated that winning a final as opposed to a premiership is the ultimate goal.

The one person that gets close is Paul Roos and I think it was Richard Collis who said that Sydney could never afford to drop out of the finals (due to the way crowds would drop off). This was pre 05 flag. They literally couldn't afford the economics of being out of the finals. It gets as close to prioritising finals over a flag as you'll get...and what happened? It became the catalyst for the self replenishing success that delivered 6 GF appearances for 2 flags in 24 years (with a GF every 4 years in time not an average based on a single successful really successful run).

Carlton did not prioritise winning a final or even finals over a flag. It stated a goal which was the first step in the process. What it got wrong was overrating its list. Confirmed by the sacking of Ratten and appointment of Malthouse. It fell apart because they chased a flag with a rancid foundation. Ratten won a final, if they weren't after more they wouldn't have sacked Malthouse.

Winning and being competitive in finals in maybe the first real test of a list build. Finals is the only time you can guarantee that your opponent is giving as much as it can give. It's no compromised by travel, training loads or motivation lapse that occurr during a season.

The history of premiers in the modern era is unequivocally that the players on the list are hardened finals players.

Us aiming for premierships now would equate to underpants gnome theory.

 

[BrunoV]

Talented players are talented because their attributes transcend their surroundings. Nick Martin doesn't defend well yet would be in every team in the competition, because he his talent transcends culture. You get enough players that are talented enough, it rewards the less talented club men and gives their actions value. Good "culture" is whatever is successful, even if its the gamut of premiership teams full of narcissists with drug problems from the last 20 years. If you can't make it at a club because the coaches aren't pushing your magic buttons but others can win flags looking like Pablo Escobar, you might not actually be that talented. Culture is a joke of a concept.

Really interesting point.

Because a lot of the coaches are dirt bags, too. Bomber was off his face, and has banging a former players misses on his rap sheet. Hardwick's marriage broke down. Goodwin is a drug and gambling addict. Even McCrea left his wife.

When you hear references to culture you don't hear it in the context of 'ruthless pricks who place winning above all else and then celebrate with the same ruthlessness'.

It's discussed like they are all great people. I think culture is important but not in the way it's discussed.

 

[TheUnicorn]

BUY IN OR DROP OUT



JAY CLARK


Even Brad Scott was a little shocked. When Essendon's senior coach
wrapped the whistle around his neck for his first day of pre-season training
late in 2022, there were a small number of players absent.

Their flights home from an overseas holiday, which were booked to return
on the day before pre-season training started, were delayed.

It meant a couple of Bombers missed their time trial under a new coach
because one was still stuck overseas, and at least one other was too jet-
lagged after a long return trip.

Scott may have maintained his usual calm exterior at the time, but it was
clear in that moment just how big his job at Essendon was.

Before the club could rise up off the canvas after two decades without a
finals win, Scott knew there had to be a complete reprogramming of habits,
behaviours and lifestyle expectations inside the bowels of Tullamarine.

And flying back to Melbourne within 24 hours of training starting seemed a
remarkable misread for some professional athletes.

But more than 12 months on, Scott was happy the needle had moved
significantly in the right direction with about 16 players this time around
giving up their holiday time for a self-funded altitude training camp in
Arizona.

"There is always a kernel of truth to these things, so, yeah, I was just
shocked," Scott said about last summer's surprise no-shows.

"You can make excuses for it. The players went off on their break and they
didn't have a coach, they didn't have a schedule. They didn't know what
was happening.

"They have got to book their holidays.

"But to summarise it, I thought we needed a realignment on what was
important about being an elite athlete and the expectations at AFL level.

"I say to the players all the time, the game is not for everyone.

"As soon as you think you are sacrificing something by playing AFL - Friday
knock-off drinks with your tradie mates or going out on weekends with
your uni mates - it is going to be really difficult for you over a long career
because you are going to feel like you are missing out on something.

"The best don't think they are sacrificing anything. They think they are
investing."

Around the same time last year, the club's new CEO, Andrew Thorburn,
lasted only one day in the job amid a religious row, and the board was
effectively overthrown.

The club's cynics would say it was typical Essendon instability. They've had
six different senior coaches, plus three interims, in 17 years.

But Scott, along with new chief executive Craig Vozzo and president David
Barham, have vowed to return a steady hand with a clear long-term vision
that has been designed to help Essendon enjoy a decent go at the top
without any short-term gambles.

And this season will be another big test for a team planning to integrate its
prized third-to-fifth year draftees, including Harry Jones, Nik Cox, Zach
Reid, Archie Perkins and Ben Hobbs, as well as first and second-year studs
Nate Caddy and Elijah Tsatas.

It is a group which has been challenged to take more responsibility and
ownership of the club entering 2024 because this is where the bulk of the
team's growth will come from, Scott said.

It means this season will be an exciting glimpse into the future, and in
particular down the new spine, with 205c Reid combining with ex-
Kangaroo Ben McKay and Cox down back, and the hard-running Jones
working off Peter Wright and Caddy in attack.

DEFENSIVE RE-FIT

The defensive recalibration has been a major focus to try to fast-track the
synergy between key pillars in McKay and eight-gamer Reid.

Essendon has been a poor defensive side for the best part of a decade, but
Scott plans to change that with the help of the new pairing.

"Essendon sides over time have been pretty good at attacking, not so good
at defending," Scott said.

"That is simplistic, because there are a lot more complexities in the game
than just that.

"But it was an easily identifiable trend (poor defensively) when I was even
contemplating entering this process (Essendon job) - through multiple
coaches through multiple eras.

"So it was a case of actually trying to get to the bottom of what was going
on here.

"We have made significant progress in aspects of it. We were able to slow
the opposition down and defend pretty well particularly for phases of last
year.

"Certainly it looked a lot better (in the first half of the season). But clearly
we weren't able to defend the big forwards very well. That is hard when you
have got Zach Reid, a 2o5cm key defender sitting on the sidelines watching.

"I'm cautious not to lump too much expectation on a player who has played
only eight games, but he is an exciting prospect for us."

Cox will play wing-back alongside superstar-in-the-making Nic Martin
who has made the shift from wing to rebounding defender, while
underrated hard nut Sam Durham has moved from wing to onball.

Tsatas, who Scott said was a "young man in a hurry" to play AFL, had 24
touches on a wing against the Cats in a much-improved pre-season hitout.

It means the midfield will bat deeper than last season. Will Setterfield is
back from a serious foot injury, Ben Hobbs and Jye Caldwell have grown in
confidence after stepping inside last year and Dylan Shiel is out to prove he
isn't done.

But what does the mix look like for round 1 against Hawthorn on Saturday
and how will they move the footy?

"I'm not concerned that I don't even know what our best midfield looks
like because players will surprise us, and it is a matter of giving them
enough opportunities for them to show us what they can do," he said.

"But we want to focus on the fundamentals of the contest, because that is
where the game begins and you set the game up around the contest.

"How we attack is most often dictated by how the opposition defend. I
don't like saying 'This is the way we attack no matter what' because teams
all defend differently.

"We want to be flexible enough so that if they (opposition) want to fold
back we will run the ball at them.

"And if they want to come at us we will potentially go a bit quicker and a bit
deeper.

"It's training both of these things so we can play multiple ways."

But unless the Bombers work some sort of on-field miracle, this season
promises to provide some challenges combining all the young talents in the
face of external expectations.

Scott said there would be some "inevitable hiccups" as the club attempts to
"bridge the gap" on the best teams.

But he said it wasn't a case of "204 or bust" and brushed aside Matthew
Lloyd's strong view that fans will tear down Windy Hill if they miss the
eight again.

"The biggest risk to us is we get a bit shaky in the face of short-term
volatility - that's the challenge in this game," Scott said.

"There's a Rudyard Kipling quote. 'Can you keep your head when all those
around you are losing theirs?'

"So, it is frustrating for fans, frustrating for players and coaches (to miss
out on finals), I get it.

"But the problem with constant improvement is it doesn't just go in a
straight line. It isn't linear.

"Fremantle finished fifth in 2022 and 14th in 2023.

"It gets back to do we want to build this sustainably or do we want to try to
look for quick-fixes and sugar hits?

"I look back on last year and I was criticised for not being bold or optimistic
enough. But even when we were going OK (8-5), I was saying this was going
to take time because I could see things that were still a long way off the best
(teams).

"So, in a nutshell, last season which one was it?

"Were we the team that was competitive on Anzac Day, beat Melbourne
early and Adelaide, competitive against the good teams early on? Or the
team that got blown away in the second half of the year? The answer is yes
to both. Both of them are us.

"At our best we are capable of competing against the best. But if we drop
away we can be badly exposed by the best."

FINDING A BALANCE

In the last two rounds, Essendon was thrashed by preliminary finalist GWS
Giants and premier Collingwood by a combined 196 points.

The hammerings left a bitter taste in the mouths of senior leaders such as
Zach Merrett, Kyle Langford and Andrew McGrath, who led the Arizona
altitude mission to help the Bombers start the season in better nick.

Scott is clear off-field expectations have gone up following the late flight
debacle more than one year ago. But fans may have to show more patience
before it fully translates on-field.

"Essendon supporters want to see improvement but what they don't want
to tolerate is lack of effort, lack of commitment to the cause," he said.
"And if you are not committed to the lifestyle that is required of an elite
AFL player you won't last here long.

"If it's something I have learnt over a long period of time I regard myself as
a highly supportive coach and supportive of my players and will go in to
defend players.

"But if I reflect over time, I have been potentially too supportive for too
long.

"You can support, support and support, but if you don't uphold your end of
the bargain, we will move on really quickly.

"I expect, and this isn't a threat, this is just the reality. But I suspect there
will be players who just won't be able to hold up their end of the bargain in
terms of what we are trying to build.

"We will be pretty unforgiving on that."

Last week former Bomber David Zaharakis who played 229 games from
2009-21, said: "I'm not too sure what a stable environment looks like.

"Players know when it's an unstable environment. When you see one coach
and he says one thing and then you go into a meeting with another and
watch vision and he says, 'Don't worry about what he said - this what you
should do'," Zaharakis said on Footy Talk.

"When coaches start doing that you have got no chance."

But Scott is certain the club has much stronger foundations entering 2024.

"You can't get the on-field right over a sustainable period of time until you
get the off-field part right," he said.

"Dave Barham is showing exceptional leadership as president, we have got
a really stable board, Craig Vozzo is a really experienced football person. So
you can talk about these intangibles, but how does it translate into
something tangible?

"It translates into Mason Redman staying after saying 12 months ago I was
definitely leaving. And when you ask him why (he initially wanted to leave),
it was because we have got no direction. We have got no stability.

"So the question is can we provide that for these players? What was our
biggest achievement in 2023? We provided some stability.

"We are a very fortunate club and we get to play in big games, we get quite a
bit of exposure compared to some other clubs, so you will get dragged into
the short-term.

"But I say bring your focus back to where it needs to be and that is on what
you need to do right now to achieve the outcome longer-term. We have got
to do a good job of communicating to our frustrated supporters who are
impatient for a very good reason."

He speaks so well. He fills me with hope just from reading random quotes. Surely hearing him speak in person fills the players with confidence.

 

[Happyskeret]

Really interesting point.

Because a lot of the coaches are dirt bags, too. Bomber was off his face, and has banging a former players misses on his rap sheet. Hardwick's marriage broke down. Goodwin is a drug and gambling addict. Even McCrea left his wife.

When you hear references to culture you don't hear it in the context of 'ruthless pricks who place winning above all else and then celebrate with the same ruthlessness'.

It's discussed like they are all great people. I think culture is important but not in the way it's discussed.

I still think those individuals came from great cultures. They are just passing the message on to their players. Wow wee his marriage broke down and the others have vices. It’s more about the template than the individual.

 

[Old Campaigner]

How do teams with terrible off field culture continually win premierships?

Because it's off field. How much of that is translating into unprofessional training standards or selfish play on gameday?

 

[Call Me Cake]

Scott strikes me as the closest coach we've had to a Sheedy personality but without the crazy. Witty sense of humour, can hit back at critics, good with words. Doesn't mean he'll be as good a coach in terms of wins or tenure but it's generally what you need to navigate through the lows as well as when keeping a cool head during the highs.

 

[Happyskeret]

Scott strikes me as the closest coach we've had to a Sheedy personality but without the crazy.

As I read this I imagine the pic when he is talking to two phones at once. Not crazy I agree just a level of advancement that we have never seen.

 

[BrunoV]

I still think those individuals came from great cultures. They are just passing the message on to their players. Wow wee his marriage broke down and the others have vices. It’s more about the template than the individual.

Craig Mcrae, great guy.

Leaves his wife and 2 young girls for a younger woman. Has another child and announces it as the best moment of his life in public on GF day.

He's the kind of mentor I'd want for my 18 year old son. I'm sure he's done teaching degrees and the like.

 

[Happyskeret]

Craig Mcrae, great guy.

Leave his wife and 2 young girls for a younger woman. Has another child and announces it as the best moment of his life in public on GF day.

He's the kind of mentor I'd want for my 18 year old son. I'm sure he's done teaching degrees and the like.

I’m not saying the individuals are saints I’m just arguing why they are successful. Because they come from successful systems.

 

[citizen-erased]

Scott strikes me as the closest coach we've had to a Sheedy personality but without the crazy. Witty sense of humour, can hit back at critics, good with words. Doesn't mean he'll be as good a coach in terms of wins or tenure but it's generally what you need to navigate through the lows as well as when keeping a cool head during the highs.

Im viewing him as part-sheeds (99-03 era), part Roos, part his brother.

sensible and no-nonsense with a great dismissive quality of anything he's not particularly keen to address.
Add to that he looks a stabilising figure who is openly addressing a good number of issues.

We may find like Roos he eventually hands over to a deputy (Gia or Cara). Either way, im glad he's at the helm at the moment
Fix the foundations before you renovate the house.

 

[justlookingaround]

Scott has got the hardest job in the AFL, but it's also got the potential to be the most rewarding.
From my position as a long term observer, I can't really think of anyone better suited to it.
Who knows if it leads to long term success, way too many variables to predict that, but at the very least I feel confident he will get himself a group that trains and plays to high standards.

The issues the club have that need to be completely reset stem from many failures in transitioning away from a period of success.
It completely flubbed the 06 rebuild, hired the wrong coach in 08, had a captain that literally did not want to be there, then in trying to be ruthless in chasing success manufactured the drugs saga which led the club to no man's land. No one wanted to believe that would put us in the gutter for a decade back then, but it did, and here we are, just crawling out of it.

 

[BrunoV]

The way I see it, most sides that jump up and break the cycle of mediocrity have a period of sustained success within a season, not just seasons before. People with the benefit of hindsight always say "but they always had the talent". At the time however, none of these clubs were viewed as anything serious.

Let's look at sides that recently broke out of a loser culture in Richmond, Melbourne, Brisbane and now Carlton.

Each of them had one thing in common. They all had a period of dominance and long winning streaks to establish a winning culture.

I knew the moment Richmond made finals in 2014 off the back of a 9 game-winning streak to end the season that this was a different Richmond. They were 3-10 and didn't lose a single game for the rest of the home and away season. No Essendon side in the past 20 years could have pulled off something like that because they don't have the mental strength to do it.

Melbourne won 9 in a row to start 2021 and only a 1 point loss to Adelaide in Adelaide prevented them from a 12 game winning streak. I knew we were looking at a premiership then. Melbourne and Richmond were arguably more clowned than Essendon given their lengthy finals absence.

Brisbane after winning only 5 games in 2018 and with a sustained bottom 4 finish jumped straight into the top 4 in 2019 off the back of a 9 game winning streak to shatter a losing culture. Not surprising they came within 4 points of winning a premiership.

Carlton last year were sitting 15th at the end of round 13 and went on a 9 game-winning streak. Not surprising they went on to a prelim and look to back it up this year. The 46 point comeback away vs Brisbane doesn't happen if the second half of the year didn't happen.

Collingwood in 2022 went on an 11-game winning streak with only 3 of the games being above 10 points (one of them 11 points). People clowned them for being lucky in close games and overachieving, but I knew this was a premiership side based on the patterns before. GWS and Carlton's second half last year may well lead them to a grand final showdown only a year after despite sitting 14th and 15th after round 13.

I have seen nothing like that from Essendon and won't take us seriously until we can go 2 months without losing.

I missed this.

I don't know what to make of streaks generally. They're good for confidence but I am not sure they create winning culture in and of themselves. They need to be backed up with something.

Richmond went on a long streak in 15, too, where it won a lot of footy to storm home from a bad position in a very similar way to Carlton 23. It then got smashed by Port in the EF and dipped in 2016.

I'd say the streaks are verification / affirmation of the capacity of a team / list, not as important as finals because the draw can contrive scenarios which produce flattering streaks.

What I think is more significant to the examples you've identified is the style of player favoured by those 3 lists. In each case the focus has been on physical players / competitors / hard ball winners even to a flaw. Melbourne had to be less hardball bees to a honey pot to become a premiership team.

Carlton's problem pre-Voss was that it wasn't set up to maximise the strength of its list. Whether he can evolve is a similar question to the one faced by Fagan and Brisbane. A 12 win season, with late narrow losses to top teams, is likely a big part of the belief underpinning the streak of 23.

I see this as part of what Red Black and Blue has been talking about but I don't think it's about stars as much as it is the character of the list itself. Physical and competitive players produce a physical and competitive culture. Hard runners with natural running talent produce a two way culture of hard running. Many really solid teams have 1 or the other. Some teams are blessed to have both.

So I think Carlton took confidence from Voss playing to the strength of its players in much the same way Richmond did in 17 when it turfed the attempt to be more like Hawthorn.

Carlton could always tell itself that it can smash anyone in close because it can. That's what a fleet of >90kg hard ball winners does.

What do our players do that is associated with premiership success that you can build a culture on? I say nothing. You don't build a culture on the front running which is a necessary part of being good.

It's why I have been pretty savage on Brad Scott. What decision has he made that prioritises the qualities of players who have the innate finals game that you can build a culture on? Loose ball gets? Culture can't just be words and habits as goals, it necessarily reflects the people who comprise the institution. In all of his waffle he seems to have overlooked that reality.

 

[Lore]

I missed this.

I don't know what to make of streaks generally. They're good for confidence but I am not sure they create winning culture in and of themselves. They need to be backed up with something.

Richmond went on a long streak in 15, too, where it won a lot of footy to storm home from a bad position in a very similar way to Carlton 23. It then got smashed by Port in the EF and dipped in 2016.

I'd say the streaks are verification / affirmation of the capacity of a team / list, not as important as finals because the draw can contrive scenarios which produce flattering streaks.

What I think is more significant to the examples you've identified is the style of player favoured by those 3 lists. In each case the focus has been on physical players / competitors / hard ball winners even to a flaw. Melbourne had to be less hardball bees to a honey pot to become a premiership team.

Carlton's problem pre-Voss was that it wasn't set up to maximise the strength of its list. Whether he can evolve is a similar question to the one faced by Fagan and Brisbane. A 12 win season, with late narrow losses to top teams, is likely a big part of the belief underpinning the streak of 23.

I see this as part of what Red Black and Blue has been talking about but I don't think it's about stars as much as it is the character of the list itself. Physical and competitive players produce a physical and competitive culture. Hard runners with natural running talent produce a two way culture of hard running. Many really solid teams have 1 or the other. Some teams are blessed to have both.

So I think Carlton took confidence from Voss playing to the strength of its players in much the same way Richmond did in 17 when it turfed the attempt to be more like Hawthorn.

Carlton could always tell itself that it can smash anyone in close because it can. That's what a fleet of >90kg hard ball winners does.

What do our players do that is associated with premiership success that you can build a culture on? I say nothing. You don't build a culture on the front running which is a necessary part of being good.

It's why I have been pretty savage on Brad Scott. What decision has he made that prioritises the qualities of players who have the innate finals game that you can build a culture on? Loose ball gets? Culture can't just be words and habits as goals, it necessarily reflects the people who comprise the institution. In all of his waffle he seems to have overlooked that reality.

Culture is the sum of what any and all individuals in a place do every day, both on and off the field.

So yes, a culture of hard runners and physicality, of running out the fourth quarter with as much gusto as the first.

But also a culture that turns up late, a culture that leaves early, a culture that skips gym sessions, a culture that sleeps through coaching presentations, a culture that turns away from the coach instead of toward him when they stuff up.

A culture that goes partying the day before a big game.

A culture that eats sleeps and breathes footy, or a culture that just wants to enjoy footy again.

 

[citizen-erased]

I missed this.

I don't know what to make of streaks generally. They're good for confidence but I am not sure they create winning culture in and of themselves. They need to be backed up with something.

Richmond went on a long streak in 15, too, where it won a lot of footy to storm home from a bad position in a very similar way to Carlton 23. It then got smashed by Port in the EF and dipped in 2016.

I'd say the streaks are verification / affirmation of the capacity of a team / list, not as important as finals because the draw can contrive scenarios which produce flattering streaks.

What I think is more significant to the examples you've identified is the style of player favoured by those 3 lists. In each case the focus has been on physical players / competitors / hard ball winners even to a flaw. Melbourne had to be less hardball bees to a honey pot to become a premiership team.

Carlton's problem pre-Voss was that it wasn't set up to maximise the strength of its list. Whether he can evolve is a similar question to the one faced by Fagan and Brisbane. A 12 win season, with late narrow losses to top teams, is likely a big part of the belief underpinning the streak of 23.

I see this as part of what Red Black and Blue has been talking about but I don't think it's about stars as much as it is the character of the list itself. Physical and competitive players produce a physical and competitive culture. Hard runners with natural running talent produce a two way culture of hard running. Many really solid teams have 1 or the other. Some teams are blessed to have both.

So I think Carlton took confidence from Voss playing to the strength of its players in much the same way Richmond did in 17 when it turfed the attempt to be more like Hawthorn.

Carlton could always tell itself that it can smash anyone in close because it can. That's what a fleet of >90kg hard ball winners does.

What do our players do that is associated with premiership success that you can build a culture on? I say nothing. You don't build a culture on the front running which is a necessary part of being good.

It's why I have been pretty savage on Brad Scott. What decision has he made that prioritises the qualities of players who have the innate finals game that you can build a culture on? Loose ball gets? Culture can't just be words and habits as goals, it necessarily reflects the people who comprise the institution. In all of his waffle he seems to have overlooked that reality.

my read is he has to go back one more step and sort the wheat from the chaff. And that's what he's doing
Buys him 2-3 years from day one imo before you'd want to see something emerging.

I like that he's identifying a core.
i'd love to be privy to who he sees in that core.

 

[jdstorm]

my read is he has to go back one more step and sort the wheat from the chaff. And that's what he's doing
Buys him 2-3 years from day one imo before you'd want to see something emerging.

I like that he's identifying a core.
i'd love to be privy to who he sees in that core.

There’s one thing all great teams have in common. Effort and physicality.

Doesn’t matter your size or speed but if your willing to make a hit, take a hit, and run just as hard when you’re down as when you’re up that’s a great place to start.

I think those last two games last season vs Collingwood and GWS were huge because they showed who on the field were resilient. It’s not an accident that Merrett, Langford, Martin, Durham and a few others are getting bigger responsibilities.

 

[Don Won]

Nothing sums up the Essendon culture pre Brad as having the ‘22 end of season trip in Ibiza.

 

[citizen-erased]

There’s one thing all great teams have in common. Effort and physicality.

Doesn’t matter your size or speed but if your willing to make a hit, take a hit, and run just as hard when you’re down as when you’re up that’s a great place to start.

I think those last two games last season vs Collingwood and GWS were huge because they showed who on the field were resilient. It’s not an accident that Merrett, Langford, Martin, Durham and a few others are getting bigger responsibilities.

agree.

Some true colours came out in that game.
Admittedly getting beaten by the best team and the form team in the comp isn't the worst thing, but the nature of the losses were telling.

i don't think Brad can turn all the individuals from that around either. Some will have to go before you try and instil that culture.

 

[Maxabillions]

There’s one thing all great teams have in common. Effort and physicality.

Doesn’t matter your size or speed but if your willing to make a hit, take a hit, and run just as hard when you’re down as when you’re up that’s a great place to start.

I think those last two games last season vs Collingwood and GWS were huge because they showed who on the field were resilient. It’s not an accident that Merrett, Langford, Martin, Durham and a few others are getting bigger responsibilities.

And two of those four players are relatively new to the club and one was voted out of the leadership group previously for trying to raise standards.