Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[boncer34]

History also shows sticking with coaches works out. Bomba, Hardwick immediately come to mind.

Hinkley

 

[DERO]

Clarko.

 

[Mercurial89]

It probably should be noted that the game style we have been playing closely resembles Sydney, in how we move the ball (they obviously do it million times better), they also have similar weaknesses (no strong marking down the line).
The whole comp has gone to work on chasing Sydney, they have lost 4 of the last 5.
So if they are struggling and they have ten times the talent and kicking skills we have then I'm not surprised we have fallen in a complete heap, it would be like shelling peas against our guys who would then drop their heads.

 

[yodellinhank]

Clarko.

Eade, Connolly, Laidley, Daniher, Ratten

 

[BomberFan355]

10 years on, still the same question being asked.

7.4K views · 1.6K reactions | 10yrs ago Bomber Thompson had this to say about the Essendon playing group! Not much has changed? 😫 #markthompson #essendonfc #coach #2014 #bomberthompson #whenwhenwhen #itsgoingtochange #essendonfootballclub #australian

10yrs ago Bomber Thompson had this to say about the Essendon playing group! Not much has changed? 😫 #markthompson #essendonfc #coach #2014 #bomberthompson #whenwhenwhen #itsgoingtochange...

www.facebook.com

 

[ant555]

is that locked in? i knew he had connections at AFL house, but didn’t realise that was part of the deal!

it is the AFL . Anything is possible.

 

[ant555]

10 years on, still the same question being asked.

7.4K views · 1.6K reactions | 10yrs ago Bomber Thompson had this to say about the Essendon playing group! Not much has changed? 😫 #markthompson #essendonfc #coach #2014 #bomberthompson #whenwhenwhen #itsgoingtochange #essendonfootballclub #australian

10yrs ago Bomber Thompson had this to say about the Essendon playing group! Not much has changed? 😫 #markthompson #essendonfc #coach #2014 #bomberthompson #whenwhenwhen #itsgoingtochange...

www.facebook.com

which is why I have always questioned the players and the culture. 4 coaches in a row singing the same tune.

 

[dank420_]

Eade, Connolly, Laidley, Daniher, Ratten

Ratten is a fantastic example of someone who could have won a flag if the clubs he was coaching were patient.

 

[DERO]

Eade, Connolly, Laidley, Daniher, Ratten

Zen Hird.

 

[DERO]

Ratten is a fantastic example of someone who could have won a flag if the clubs he was coaching were patient.

All paths lead back to ZEN HIRDY

 

[Agronomus]

You know what. If Scott has not changed since North but gets us into two preliminary finals in the next 5 years he has done more than the other in the last 20 years.

Sad isn't it?

 

[Mercurial89]

which is why I have always questioned the players and the culture. 4 coaches in a row singing the same tune.

It begs the question why they continue to be played, or why coaches believe they can change them.

It's getting to the point where scorched earth may be the only antidote to getting it out of the club

 

[bommer16]

Doing the same thing expecting diff results doesn’t work. Ingrained culture will be hard to change. That is the biggest challenge imo.

 

[Rick Ross]

Anyone remember the Philadelphia 76’ers Trust the Process mantra?



Think that worked out ok.

I’m running with it…

 

[yodellinhank]

Ratten is a fantastic example of someone who could have won a flag if the clubs he was coaching were patient.

Which Hawthorne premiership side do the blues depose? You think the saints pinch one this year? I'm not buying it.

Zen Hird.

If we're making up fantasy premierships won by coaches with negative W/L records then sure, why not?

 

[BrunoV]

It begs the question why they continue to be played, or why coaches believe they can change them.

It's getting to the point where scorched earth may be the only antidote to getting it out of the club

On this, look at how easy it was for Voss to change Carlton's culture. Carlton has been worse than Essendon for most of the last 20 years (with, what is it, 5 bottom finishes in that period?). Voss said exactly what he was going to do in his first presser. He was going to play the biggest, nastiest inside players he had, as much as he could, and bash opponents into submission. It wasn't pretty and they were far from efficient but they spent the whole year in the top 8, falling at the last hurdle while losing to Melbourne and Collingwood battling for spots in the top 4 by a collective 6 points. Percentage of 108 with a 35 point loss being as bad as they got (with a few other 5 goal losses). He used his players to set the required standard and foundation for the culture.

It's as basic as the belief or even the knowledge that Carlton can beat up any team inside. The players need something tangible to believe in the culture. Even just look at culture of nations and ethic groups, for example, and look at how that is based on or reflected in tangible things such as unique language, food, clothing, etc.

What do we think Essendon players are telling each other to motivate or when things get tough? What tangible things does Essendon point to as a sign of its culture (and I'm not looking for satirical responses).

Brad Scott is trying to graft a culture onto players who are not compatible. He has not used player selection in any real way to shape the culture, though I give him Durham in the middle. He has not used his power to influence list management to shape the culture, at all. But it's worse than that, he is chasing results by devising and implementing strategies for the flawed 'best 22' to be as successful as possible. This is part of the reason we play Goldstein, for example. He drives so much of the success in the centre with his ruck work (for which he gets no credit). It's why we defend at half back instead of defending the ground, because there are few players who play 2-way footy. It's why we 'fade out' of season - these are not really fade outs as much as they are corrections by the rest of the competition.

And the best part of it is that they have re-signed basically everyone. So I don't think we should give Brad Scott the 'out' of the players being the problem. He doesn't think they are the problem. There is virtually nothing he has done pre-Adelaide loss that should lead anyone to think that he thinks the players are the problem. It's why he wont be able to change the culture and it's also why he shouldn't be given the chance. Voss would not have been able to do his 'about face' half way through last season if he had not set the foundation of 2022, if he didn't have that fallback of the culture he had established. Re-sets half way through have no realistic prospect of success. You can't spend all of your time with a group of people building them up based on 1 thing, change your mind and revoke it and then try to build them back up with something else. This is why I have been saying from very early on that Scott has been going about coaching Essendon in completely the wrong way. He has squandered the opportunity he had to come in and be the bad guy everyone expected.

This is part of what I meant when I was telling ant555 that he was projecting a positive plan onto Essendon. Ant thinks the players are a problem, and he's not getting any real argument from me there at least in a general sense, but Brad Scott didn't until 2 or 3 weeks ago. It's too late for Brad now.

 

[dank420_]

Which Hawthorne premiership side do the blues depose? You think the saints pinch one this year? I'm not buying it

You were telling us how some coaches are given too long because most are bad and you gave an example of a coach who wasn’t given a lot of time.

 

[yodellinhank]

You were telling us how some coaches are given too long because most are bad and you gave an example of a coach who wasn’t given a lot of time.

He actually was. 6 years is more than the average. Coaches are sacked across the industry, it's not uniquely an Essendon thing and sticking with a bad coach isn't going to make them a good coach.

 

[dank420_]

He actually was. 6 years is more than the average. Coaches are sacked across the industry, it's not uniquely an Essendon thing and sticking with a bad coach isn't going to make them a good coach.

He won a final the season before he got sacked and they seemed to be on an upward trajectory. I dunno it seemed pretty weird at the time given they had been in the doldrums for so long.

And of course it happens but historically, swapping coaches every 2 years hasn’t yielded much either. All the coaches mentioned to rebut your point had pretty terrible starts.

 

[BrunoV]

He actually was. 6 years is more than the average. Coaches are sacked across the industry, it's not uniquely an Essendon thing and sticking with a bad coach isn't going to make them a good coach.

The industry and the expert commentators also cling to cliches and misapply precedent while arguing for stability.

The focus has become on the magical 7-year end point. Coaches just need 7 years. But that is 7 years to win a premiership and the progression is almost always linear with a bad outlier. I am sure someone who knows stats could organise the data in a way that clearly demonstrates the linear progression.

Bomber won finals and had the Cats finish 4th in the years prior to 2006. Hardwick won 45 games of footy in the 3 seasons prior to 2016. It's the clear evidence of progression that is the basis for sticking with the coach, not patience and likely not even the desired stability. Their sides weren't yo-yoing up and down the ladder. They were consistent and then had a bad year, it is a very different thing to what is portrayed. Even the often-cited example of Goodwin seems to overlook that they won 2 finals while bashing the competition up inside in 2018. That was year 5 of the necessary scotched earth rebuild started by Roos. They had liner progress to 2018. At least part of what then followed was problems they had evolving the style of play so that they were more substantial without the ball (focusing on secondary clearances, etc). This is the point at which they genuinely take a step or 2 back to take 5 forward (which is when they win the flag).

 

[eth-dog]

He won a final the season before he got sacked and they seemed to be on an upward trajectory. I dunno it seemed pretty weird at the time given they had been in the doldrums for so long.

And of course it happens but historically, swapping coaches every 2 years hasn’t yielded much either. All the coaches mentioned to rebut your point had pretty terrible starts.

Moved to the Hawks and turned their midfield from average to elite with their best player being a slow, small player who struggled to kick more than 35 metres

 

[dank420_]

Bomber won finals and had the Cats finish 4th in the years prior to 16

Before they finished 4th they missed finals 3 years prior which encompassed his initial coaching career.

 

[dank420_]

This conversation assumes that all coaches have access to the same list also.

 

[Squeaky]

On this, look at how easy it was for Voss to change Carlton's culture. Carlton has been worse than Essendon for most of the last 20 years (with, what is it, 5 bottom finishes in that period?). Voss said exactly what he was going to do in his first presser. He was going to play the biggest, nastiest inside players he had, as much as he could, and bash opponents into submission. It wasn't pretty and they were far from efficient but they spent the whole year in the top 8, falling at the last hurdle while losing to Melbourne and Collingwood battling for spots in the top 4 by a collective 6 points. Percentage of 108 with a 35 point loss being as bad as they got (with a few other 5 goal losses). He used his players to set the required standard and foundation for the culture.

It's as basic as the belief or even the knowledge that Carlton can beat up any team inside. The players need something tangible to believe in the culture. Even just look at culture of nations and ethic groups, for example, and look at how that is based on or reflected in tangible things such as unique language, food, clothing, etc.

What do we think Essendon players are telling each other to motivate or when things get tough? What tangible things does Essendon point to as a sign of its culture (and I'm not looking for satirical responses).

Brad Scott is trying to graft a culture onto a players who are not compatible. He has not used player selection in any real way to shape the culture, though I give him Durham in the middle. He has not used his power to influence list management to shape the culture, at all. But it's worse than that, he is chasing results by devising and implementing strategies for the flawed 'best 22' to be as successful as possible. This is part of the reason we play Goldstein, for example. He drives so much of the success in the centre with his ruck work (for which he gets no credit). It's why we defend at half back instead of defending the ground, because there are few players who play 2-way footy. It's why we 'fade out' of season - these are not really fade outs as much as they are corrections by the rest of the competition.

And the best part of it is that they have re-signed basically everyone. So I don't think we should give Brad Scott the 'out' of the players being the problem. He doesn't think they are the problem. There is virtually nothing he has done pre-Adelaide loss that should lead anyone to think that he thinks the players are the problem. It's why he wont be able to change the culture and it's also why he shouldn't be given the chance. Voss would not have been able to do his 'about face' half way through last season if he had not set the foundation of 2022, if he didn't have that fallback of the culture he had established. Re-sets half way through have no realistic prospect of success. You can't spend all of your time with a group of people building them up based on 1 thing, change your mind and revoke it and then try to build them back up with something else. This is why I have been saying from very early on that Scott has been going about coaching Essendon in the completely wrong way. He has squandered the opportunity he had to come in and be the bad guy everyone expected.

This is part of what I meant when I was telling ant555 that he was projecting a positive plan onto Essendon. Ant thinks the players are a problem, and he's not getting any real argument from me there at least in a general sense, but Brad Scott didn't until 2 or 3 weeks ago. It's too late for Brad now.

That's a sad read.
Can't argue with it.

 

[Foxx]

This list is too good to finish bottom 6.
Which looks like where we'll finish.

We've had a manageable injury list. So there's no excuse there.

The fault lay squarely on the coaching and team selection.