Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[Call Me Cake]

He's still technically trying to find the best 22 but some of the stubborness to do the same thing/make the same decision repeatedly when they clearly don't work and being too arrogant to learn from it + playing blokes who don't deserve it. Still haven't seen a spray.

These are the things I expect improvement from him going into the next couple years.

First year is always a honeymoon period and we're already ahead on what we were last year and didn't go in with expectatjons of finals or anything near it.

 

[TheGrizz]

He's still technically trying to find the best 22 but some of the stubborness to do the same thing/make the same decision repeatedly when they clearly don't work and being too arrogant to learn from it + playing blokes who don't deserve it. Still haven't seen a spray.

This was the major knock on him at Norf. It might just be an availability thing but I hope it isn't the same issue.

 

[Here_we_come]

Sorry, I missed that. I think the issue is that so many of your posts in the Brad Scott thread don't mention Brad Scott.

The sky isn't falling. We are pretty much exactly where we should have expected to be. Fringe of the 8.

I agree, the list has some holes. But that's not news. Letting the last 20 years affect thinking right now is insane. The club has to maintain faith it's on the right track and make good calls to improve the list each year for the next few summers. Continually bringing the "it's been 20 years" guff into the conversation just creates additional urgency and doubt which aren't useful.

I disagree. It's a failure to acknowledge that we've had an issue for 2 decades that has kept us where we are - bad to mediocre.
Blind faith is not what's best for the club right now. What they should be doing, and what they are not doing, is everything they can to address our issues.

I'm not merely saying this due to the embarrassing lost yesterday - I've been saying this for years. We finally have a good coach, I want to see what Scott can do when he's handed a list that's capable of competing. I don't think he's been given that.

 

[Here_we_come]

Baby
Bath water

I realise I probably sound very pessimistic. But my thinking is this: by the time our new crop come through, indeed if they come through (Tsatas, Jones, Reid, Cox, et al.) I think our best players will be past their prime - Merrett, Parish, etc. This has been an issue with the club for a long time.

What we need is to nail successive drafts - it's generally what most very good teams have done. I don't think we've done that. I think we have selected some good players here or there, but they are not balanced in terms of age and positions that will allow us to compete.

That's just how I see it, but would love to be wrong.

 

[brain taylor]

I realise I probably sound very pessimistic. But my thinking is this: by the time our new crop come through, indeed if they come through (Tsatas, Jones, Reid, Cox, et al.) I think our best players will be past their prime - Merrett, Parish, etc. This has been an issue with the club for a long time.

What we need is to nail successive drafts - it's generally what most very good teams have done. I don't think we've done that. I think we have selected some good players here or there, but they are not balanced in terms of age and positions that will allow us to compete.

That's just how I see it, but would love to be wrong.

i understand your concern but this is another one of those things that separates good sides from shit ones, see collingwood continuing to get value out of veterans vs north’s senior guys. I feel like merrett is the kind of player who won’t really decline that hard since his primary strengths are his kicking and iq, he’ll still have a lot to give when he slows down and moves to a flank (provided his feet and brain don’t spontaneously combust in the meantime)

 

[Burzum]

The problem is a lot of people overate their own club. We are 1-7 v top 8 teams and aren’t very good yet people think we’re good. If you dare go against your club in these forums you’ll be attacked by others and banned from posting

I might be one of the biggest haters of the list and Dudoro on this site and neither of those things have happened to me.

 

[Zach Package]

Not offering anything constructive? Any time I list problems such as players, trades, team selection and offer potential solutions I get attacked

 

[fairbump_playon]

Not offering anything constructive? Any time I list problems such as players, trades, team selection and offer potential solutions I get attacked

It’s hard to be both the smartest person in the room and a man of the people

 

[Beerfish]

It’s hard to be both the smartest person in the room and a man of the people

And yet you're pretty good at it.

 

[fairbump_playon]

And yet you're pretty good at it.

Backatcha

 

[ghostdog]

I might be one of the biggest haters of the list and Dudoro on this site and neither of those things have happened to me.

Agree. I'm still standing by Truck and think Dave Barham's a *, but I haven't been banned either. He's both a * and a clever ****. That's allowed.

 

[Beerfish]

Backatcha

I think we just found our next moderater.

 

[Squeaky]

There are massive problems with the club if they can't face a basic truth that Mahoney was trying to tell them. This is a person from a successful club, let's not forget. What a joke we've become.

I wish I had your optimism about the club's view on Scott, who I actually rate highly. Instead, this is what I think will happen: Scott will come under increasing pressure in 2-3 years due to lack of progress and he'll be replaced, and our problems will remain.

It's just so predictable it's utterly depressing.

Gee I hope with all my heart that this is wrong;
But my head says you are probably right...
Sad...

 

[frodos gardener]

Agree. I'm still standing by Truck and think Dave Barham's a , but I haven't been banned either. He's both a and a clever **. That's allowed.

Do you not like Barham? You’ve never mentioned it

 

[Dudoro]

i understand your concern but this is another one of those things that separates good sides from s**t ones, see collingwood continuing to get value out of veterans vs north’s senior guys. I feel like merrett is the kind of player who won’t really decline that hard since his primary strengths are his kicking and iq, he’ll still have a lot to give when he slows down and moves to a flank (provided his feet and brain don’t spontaneously combust in the meantime)

Yeh Collingwood got a bit lucky though didn’t they.

Get a Brownlow medalist Nick Daicos, AA wing Josh Daicos and AA CHB Darcy Moore as Father Sons, likely AA back pocket Quaynor as an academy selection. They aren’t 15-2 and flag favourites without those players. Much like Sydney don’t make GF last year without AA Heeney, AA Mills, Gulden, Blakey who all were academy picks.

It’s why I RESPECTFULLY disagreed saying there is equalisation in league.

 

[faible]

Yeh Collingwood got a bit lucky though didn’t they.

Get a Brownlow medalist Nick Daicos, AA wing Josh Daicos and AA CHB Darcy Moore as Father Sons, likely AA back pocket Quaynor as an academy selection. They aren’t 15-2 and flag favourites without those players. Much like Sydney don’t make GF last year without AA Heeney, AA Mills, Gulden, Blakey who all were academy picks.

It’s why I RESPECTFULLY disagreed saying there is equalisation in league.

We had a Brownlow Medal* winning and Coleman Medal winning Father Sons and did nothing with it.

 

[Dudoro]

We had a Brownlow Medal* winning and Coleman Medal winning Father Sons and did nothing with it.

Not at the same time. And which FS won a Coleman? If you mean Daniher in 2017 that was Jobes last year. One FS is not 3 AA

 

[citizen-erased]

Credits in the bank for getting us to top 5 deep into a season with not the easiest draw (top 2 twice, interstate trip post-bye, reigning premier twice).
7 blowouts last year v. 2 this year (both v. Cats).
Defensive efforts are better

But we're not the complete package.
We weren't a top 5 side, but being there meant we're winning games we otherwise wouldn't. All with a flawed squad.

Player assessments will be interesting in offseason. there's the OoC players, but there's always the Ned Guy option of pushing players out too and just turning list spots over.

 

[citizen-erased]

Yeh Collingwood got a bit lucky though didn’t they.

Get a Brownlow medalist Nick Daicos, AA wing Josh Daicos and AA CHB Darcy Moore as Father Sons, likely AA back pocket Quaynor as an academy selection. They aren’t 15-2 and flag favourites without those players. Much like Sydney don’t make GF last year without AA Heeney, AA Mills, Gulden, Blakey who all were academy picks.

It’s why I RESPECTFULLY disagreed saying there is equalisation in league.

yes and no

Josh wasn't a gun kid and was a later pick. he's come good last couple of years
Moore yes, but we got similar in Daniher.
Nick is a pearler, but worth noting they gave up pick 2 that year too. kinda cancels it out.

Much of the 15-2 is their mindset and players executing well. Frampton was a fringe backman, makeshift ruckman and he took Draper/Phillips to the cleaners. That there is the story of why they're flag faves and we're battling to make the 8

 

[Dudoro]

yes and no

Josh wasn't a gun kid and was a later pick. he's come good last couple of years
Moore yes, but we got similar in Daniher.
Nick is a pearler, but worth noting they gave up pick 2 that year too. kinda cancels it out.

Much of the 15-2 is their mindset and players executing well. Frampton was a fringe backman, makeshift ruckman and he took Draper/Phillips to the cleaners. That there is the story of why they're flag faves and we're battling to make the 8

Jobe was late pick bc that’s how FS was done back then.
Giving up their Future first at end of 2020 was to do with poor list management and part of the salary cap issues. They could have kept pick 2 and taken both Daicos and Callaghan.

With all respect they’re not 15-2 bc of role players. Role players look better in good teams. That’s why we need elite players to make our role players better.

 

[Lore]

You do realise why 5-12 is so even? Bc the top 4 are so far ahead of everyone else except Geelong who have come good.

Whatever you might have thought you said, you appear to be agreeing with me. 2023 is the most competitive season we've seen in the last 20 years, particularly in terms of the evenness of the competition from ~5th–12th. Not sure how many people on the forum are proficient with reading a box plot, but for those interested this is how it stacks up, season to date:

We are 1-7 from 8 games v top 8 teams.

Which means we are 8-1 from 9 games v bottom 10 teams, with our 1 loss coming against Freo in Perth after our bye. That's the 2nd best record after Collingwood, who are 11-0. You could call us flat track bullies – or view it as a solid foundation to build on.

If you think we’re close you’re delusional.

My post was a hell of a lot more nuanced than that nonsense. Perhaps if you tried reading other people's posts with an open mind, rather than looking for a 'gotcha', you might be able to come up with a more constructive counterpoint to further the discussion?

To take a cycling analogy, you have the breakaway group (top 4), and the main peloton (5th-12th). Geelong wants to hunt down the breakaway group but the peloton is not currently letting them get away. Every year it is 1-2 of those at the front of the peleton that acquire the last couple of pieces of their list management puzzle, have a bedded-in game plan, and finally make that leap up to the breakaway group.

What I suggested in my original post is that, list-wise, we are among that group of clubs that has an almost-list, that is now at a stage of competing against most clubs most of the time. It is, however, still missing those last couple of pieces that would allow us to compete with the breakaway group.

I also stated that, unlike most clubs, we seem to lack the ability to take that last step, list-wise. We are perpetually lacking those last couple of pieces because of poor list management. That's on Dodoro.

In terms of bedding in a game plan, we have a fair bit more work to do because we can't seem to get the right mix of coach and players in the same place at the same time for long enough to make any progress with it. That's on the club's directors.

Thus, we are a club that treads water, in a sort of perpetual stasis, that never really bottoms out but never really goes anywhere either. If we finish above 7th it'll be our best H&A finish in 20 years.

Yeh don’t rate my opinion yet you cry and ban me when I disagree with you. Sad really

It seems this has already been thoroughly debunked

 

[citizen-erased]

Jobe was late pick bc that’s how FS was done back then.
Giving up their Future first at end of 2020 was to do with poor list management and part of the salary cap issues. They could have kept pick 2 and taken both Daicos and Callaghan.

With all respect they’re not 15-2 bc of role players. Role players look better in good teams. That’s why we need elite players to make our role players better.

pretty sure Josh Daicos was when you had to match 1st rd bids. he wasn't on the radar as a gun back then
And the first rd pick was nothing to do with the cap. no players shifted.

I'd argue we don't need to get elite players. We need our elite players to lift when it gets hard.
This is Brad's charge. And he kinda called it out early on. Our players have had it pretty soft since Sheeds. I can't remember the last hard call we made on a player. we could barely face Fantasia wanting to go after 2 years of zero output. Daniher similar.

 

[Dudoro]

Whatever you might have thought you said, you appear to be agreeing with me. 2023 is the most competitive season we've seen in the last 20 years, particularly in terms of the evenness of the competition from ~5th–12th. Not sure how many people on the forum are proficient with reading a box plot, but for those interested this is how it stacks up, season to date:

View attachment 1740789


Which means we are 8-1 from 9 games v bottom 10 teams, with our 1 loss coming against Freo in Perth after our bye. That's the 2nd best record after Collingwood, who are 11-0. You could call us flat track bullies – or view it as a solid foundation to build on.

My post was a hell of a lot more nuanced than that nonsense. Perhaps if you tried reading other people's posts with an open mind, rather than looking for a 'gotcha', you might be able to come up with a more constructive counterpoint to further the discussion?

To take a cycling analogy, you have the breakaway group (top 4), and the main peloton (5th-12th). Geelong wants to hunt down the breakaway group but the peloton is not currently letting them get away. Every year it is 1-2 of those at the front of the peleton that acquire the last couple of pieces of their list management puzzle, have a bedded-in game plan, and finally make that leap up to the breakaway group.

What I suggested in my original post is that, list-wise, we are among that group of clubs that has an almost-list, that is now at a stage of competing against most clubs most of the time. It is, however, still missing those last couple of pieces that would allow us to compete with the breakaway group.

I also stated that, unlike most clubs, we seem to lack the ability to take that last step, list-wise. We are perpetually lacking those last couple of pieces because of poor list management. That's on Dodoro.

In terms of bedding in a game plan, we have a fair bit more work to do because we can't seem to get the right mix of coach and players in the same place at the same time for long enough to make any progress with it. That's on the club's directors.

Thus, we are a club that treads water, in a sort of perpetual stasis, that never really bottoms out but never really goes anywhere either. If we finish above 7th it'll be our best H&A finish in 20 years.


It seems this has already been thoroughly debunked

By me saying it’s even after top 4 I’m saying the rest aren’t very good teams. Geelong yes. WB, saints and us are in the 8. What does that tell you?

Yes we are flat track bullies and have been for years. 100% we are thank you for agreeing.

My point is people just expect we’re going to make a magic jump into the top 4. I honestly don’t know based on what ?

The pressure geelong applied was like a final. We get flogged when we play finals bc we aren’t built for finals. Which midfielder stood up last night when Merrett had someone sitting on him all game?

 

[Dudoro]

pretty sure Josh Daicos was when you had to match 1st rd bids. he wasn't on the radar as a gun back then
And the first rd pick was nothing to do with the cap. no players shifted.

I'd argue we don't need to get elite players. We need our elite players to lift when it gets hard.
This is Brad's charge. And he kinda called it out early on. Our players have had it pretty soft since Sheeds. I can't remember the last hard call we made on a player. we could barely face Fantasia wanting to go after 2 years of zero output. Daniher similar.

Do you not remember end of 2020? Stephenson? Treloar? Grundy and Treloar big contracts?

Don’t need elite players? Watching last night was clear we barely have any. We wouldn’t have one player in the All Australian team currently.

Yes we know Dodoro refuses to trade players to improve the list. How he didn’t trade Daniher at end of 2019 when he clearly didn’t want to be there and was a FA the next year I will honestly never know.

 

[Lore]

By me saying it’s even after top 4 I’m saying the rest aren’t very good teams. Geelong yes. WB, saints and us are in the 8. What does that tell you?

Yes we are flat track bullies and have been for years. 100% we are thank you for agreeing.

My point is people just expect we’re going to make a magic jump into the top 4. I honestly don’t know based on what ?

The pressure geelong applied was like a final. We get flogged when we play finals bc we aren’t built for finals. Which midfielder stood up last night when Merrett had someone sitting on him all game?

To be the best you have to beat the rest. If the rest are 5 wins, you gotta have 6. If the rest are 50 wins, you gotta have 51.

We haven’t been within spitting distance of 5th place at this point of the season in years. We haven’t consistently performed against bottom sides... ever.

To say that we don’t perform consistently against top 4 sides — if that’s the only thing we’re failing at then we’re a darned sight better than we have been for eons.

What’s the difference between Port Adelaide in 2015–2019&2022, and Port Adelaide 2020–2021&2023? Why does their performance vary from 10th to 2nd and back again?

Which midfielder indeed. I’ve said ad nauseam that Parish still has another level to get to, rejoiced at Setterfield actually getting games and CBAs unlike every other big bodied player we’ve had in the last decade, and often made the point that I believe the midfield is still missing a piece (which might be Tsatas, jury is still out).

Perhaps we could also take note of the infants vs the elderly thing we had going on for a while there. We’re asking a lot of Hobbs and Caldwell in particular, where perhaps they are not ready for that sort of responsibility against that sort of opponent.