Miller, dead set Genius

[parrot]

...To answer your questions, firstly the players not coming to Richmond, Judd signed with Carlton chasing money plain and simple, ....

Not true actually. You'll recall that Judd actually nominated the Dons, Dees, Pies and Blues initially, but NOT the Tiges. All were offering the same money. All these Clubs had been in contact with Judd's manager for several months, before he actually formerly announced his departure from Weagleland. Why weren't the Tiges is his initial top-4 at least? I'll be suprised if you answer that question, and of course that question goes to the very heart of Miller's mis-handling of the Judd trade. He was never ever close to convincing Judd to go to Tigerland, so it didn't matter what he offered, the Weagles were unable to deal with them. "Dead-set genious"? Yeah, right.

 

[_RT_]

Not true actually. You'll recall that Judd actually nominated the Dons, Dees, Pies and Blues initially, but NOT the Tiges. All were offering the same money. All these Clubs had been in contact with Judd's manager for several months, before he actually formerly announced his departure from Weagleland. Why weren't the Tiges is his initial top-4 at least? I'll be suprised if you answer that question, and of course that question goes to the very heart of Miller's mis-handling of the Judd trade. He was never ever close to convincing Judd to go to Tigerland, so it didn't matter what he offered, the Weagles were unable to deal with them. "Dead-set genious"? Yeah, right.

I suppose if Carlton fans don't believe they cheated the cap why would the believe that Judd went there for anything but money.

 

[parrot]

I suppose if Carlton fans don't believe they cheated the cap why would the believe that Judd went there for anything but money.

I asked you a direct question as to why Miller was unable to get Judd to consider the Tiges, even though he nominated the Dees, Dons, Pies and Blues in his initial 4. But NOT the Tiges. I think you know the answer to the question. This IS the reason Judd won't be playing for the Tiges in 2008. You had room in your salary cap, plus you were offering the best draft picks plus you had PSD #1. The only thing that prevented you getting Judd, was Miller's inability to get Judd to even remotely consider the Tiges. That is why you didn't get him.

 

[I Rock]

I asked you a direct question as to why Miller was unable to get Judd to consider the Tiges, even though he nominated the Dees, Dons, Pies and Blues in his initial 4. But NOT the Tiges. I think you know the answer to the question. This IS the reason Judd won't be playing for the Tiges in 2008. You had room in your salary cap, plus you were offering the best draft picks plus you had PSD #1. The only thing that prevented you getting Judd, was Miller's inability to get Judd to even remotely consider the Tiges. That is why you didn't get him.

No, Judd was presented a package by Carlton (what all that is; is talk for another day) that he accepted and told the Eagles its Carlton or nothing. All that talk of pressure on the PSD was hot wind.

Eagles played ball and took the deal with Carlton instead of being left empty handed. The fact that this will all come back to bite the Carlton club on the ass is just entertainment for the rest of us.

 

[_RT_]

Would you agree that the Richmond list is in better shape now that what it was when Wallace took over?

Above is a direct question that I asked you yesterday to which I am still awaiting a response. When I get a response to my direct question I'll answer yours. Wont hold my breath.

I asked you a direct question as to why Miller was unable to get Judd to consider the Tiges, even though he nominated the Dees, Dons, Pies and Blues in his initial 4. But NOT the Tiges. I think you know the answer to the question. This IS the reason Judd won't be playing for the Tiges in 2008. You had room in your salary cap, plus you were offering the best draft picks plus you had PSD #1. The only thing that prevented you getting Judd, was Miller's inability to get Judd to even remotely consider the Tiges. That is why you didn't get him.

 

[W. Smithers]

Not true actually. You'll recall that Judd actually nominated the Dons, Dees, Pies and Blues initially, but NOT the Tiges. All were offering the same money.

Now you're being ridiculous.

He wanted MCG games and good facilities = Collingwood

A team that is going to play finals = Collingwood

Collingwood couldn't offer him a token job that will pocket him extra millions outside of football.

You better hope Pratt runs Carlton a little better than VISY.

$36 million is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[parrot]

Now you're being ridiculous.

He wanted MCG games and good facilities = Collingwood

A team that is going to play finals = Collingwood

Collingwood couldn't offer him a token job that will pocket him extra millions outside of football.

You better hope Pratt runs Carlton a little better than VISY.

$36 million is just the tip of the iceberg.

The Blues still play a significant number of games at the G. We will have better facilities than the Pies in 12 months. We'll not only be playing finals soon, but out list has a much better chance of winning a flag than the Pies list. So you see, even before the $'s, we're the logical choice. Judd said he thought the Blues had the most promising young list out of the those Clubs, and he wanted to be part of their development towards premierships 17 and 18. He was impressed with our on field list development, coaching support and quality of our management i.e. Swann, Icke etc. It was a complete package. Deny it if it makes you feel comfortable. The question you need to ask yourself though, is why Judd didn't even put the Tiges in his initial top-4.

 

[_RT_]

Above is a direct question that I asked you yesterday to which I am still awaiting a response. When I get a response to my direct question I'll answer yours. Wont hold my breath.

Where is my reply Parrot, not like it was a hard question.

Here I'll ask it again I'll even put in bold so you don't miss it:

Would you agree that the Richmond list is in better shape now that what it was when Wallace took over?

 

[parrot]

...Would you agree that the Richmond list is in better shape now that what it was when Wallace took over?

Sorry, didn't realise you asked. Answer: No. On any objective criteria = No. You are sitting bottom after already bottoming out a few years ago. In 2007 Terry belatedly starting playing some young players, but at the start of 2007, he was saying he'd make the 8 with players like Kingsley, Knobel and Gaspar etc. The rest is history, and the Tiges are starting another rebuild. I still think you are about 3 drafts away from getting the talent depth you need to rebuild properly. Tiges need some big off field changes badly - new coach, new list management team, and a new culture. Keeping the same people around will just repeat the same mistakes IMO, and you won't get anywhere.

 

[WATIGE]

....why Judd didn't even put the Tiges in his initial top-4.

Simple Parrot (that's the answer and you both).

Here's Judd's thoughts.

"OK - got my P'ship medal so don't really need another one of them. Where can I go to get s..loads of money to set myself up and who'll be stupid enough to pay me like that. Collingwood - Eddie yeh he'd be knob enough. Essendon - Smorgon steel yeh small chance that they'd go there. Carltank Bloose - of course Mr bent Visy exec and they're desperate that'll end up being the one. Ok that's three - holy s..t none of em have a decent midfield I'll stand out like the proverbial dogs n..s and they'll have to pay me even more - bewdy!! Oh what the heck I used to barrack for the demons I'll throw them in to put everyone off the scent and make it look good."

Don't kid yourself that it is about anything else and try some bent argument that it means you have a decent list you one eyed goose.

 

[_RT_]

Sorry, didn't realise you asked. Answer: No. On any objective criteria = No. You are sitting bottom after already bottoming out a few years ago. In 2007 Terry belatedly starting playing some young players, but at the start of 2007, he was saying he'd make the 8 with players like Kingsley, Knobel and Gaspar etc. The rest is history, and the Tiges are starting another rebuild. I still think you are about 3 drafts away from getting the talent depth you need to rebuild properly. Tiges need some big off field changes badly - new coach, new list management team, and a new culture. Keeping the same people around will just repeat the same mistakes IMO, and you won't get anywhere.

While I'll agree that we still have some way to go to be a top side, I find it hard to comprehand that you can HONESTLY suggest that a list that included names like: Morrison, Weller, Zantuck, Hilton, Roach, Rodan, Fleming, Fiora, Nicholls, Houlihan, Blumfield, Marsh, Fletcher & Dragacevic, was in any way better than the current list.

 

[parrot]

Simple Parrot (that's the answer and you both).

Here's Judd's thoughts.
...

Here's what the man himself actually said. Sounds like you need to be reminded.

 

[WATIGE]

Here's what the man himself actually said. Sounds like you need to be reminded.

As I said Simple.

SPIN

 

[Don Logan]

Sorry, didn't realise you asked. Answer: No. On any objective criteria = No. You are sitting bottom after already bottoming out a few years ago. In 2007 Terry belatedly starting playing some young players, but at the start of 2007, he was saying he'd make the 8 with players like Kingsley, Knobel and Gaspar etc. The rest is history, and the Tiges are starting another rebuild. I still think you are about 3 drafts away from getting the talent depth you need to rebuild properly. Tiges need some big off field changes badly - new coach, new list management team, and a new culture. Keeping the same people around will just repeat the same mistakes IMO, and you won't get anywhere.

Source please.

I never heard Wallace make such a prediction. In fact, he hosed down speculation of a top eight finish after a promising 2006 if you recall.

 

[smiddaz123]

Source please.

I never heard Wallace make such a prediction. In fact, he hosed down speculation of a top eight finish after a promising 2006 if you recall.

Asking Parrot for a source is like asking Carlton to actually attempt to win a game.

I wouldn't bother if I were you

 

[Kyusss]

Miller a Genius....gee that makes me think why didn't Richmond get Judd??

Oh that’s right he was keeping Carlton honest...but i think from memory Carlton didn't change their offer all week...so i think that makes Swann the Genius and Miller 500 miles left behind.

Carlton recruiters have performed wonders, absolute wonders over the past 5 years....remember we were stripped on picks, and we still managed to pick up players like Simpson, Fisher, Carrazzo, O'hAilpin, Walker, Scotland, and Stevens and then when we came back into the draft got Gibbs, Murphy, Betts, Grigg and now Judd!!!

What has Richmond recruited Kingsly, Krakouer, Simmons, P.Bowden, Oakley-Nicolls, Tambling should i go on...but also recycling players seems the way Richmond like to fix its list...hasn't that worked!!

That was the worst post ever hahahah all you did was try and name ur A players compare them to our C players and you still failed
are names like Grigg Betts Fisher Simpson O'hailphan Walker Meant to impress us hahahaha are you kidding!!!

you may aswell compare ackland thornton and betts
to richo deledio and brown
your a goose mate hahahahah classic stuff(Y)

Judds not gonna save u

 

[parrot]

That was the worst post eve...

What about this one...

Re: Judd announced Melbourne
Write it down
WILL HAPPEN

will be announced monday

 

[PROUD LION]

you're kidding right, like we need a serious headcase amongst this emerging player group

 

[iRemember87]

The good thing about you Richmond tossers are you all breath the same toxic air...have for 100 years!!!

YOu all want to talk about the present and compare team.....but your still all willing to talk about the salary cap breaches....

Lets talk about the present....2007

Carlton played Richmond - Carlton won
Carlton finished higher than Richmond
Carlton was chosen above any other club by Chris Judd
Carlton will again have number one pick....
Carlton pisted $3mil profit
Carlton had record membership

Richmond.....i'm still trying to come up with something....Foley's good year, should have been AA

and to the toss that wants to compare A'grade footballers....i was talking about good draftees....

But lets talk A'grade footballers
Richmonds - Brown, Rich, Deledio, Bowden
Carlton - Stevens, Judd, Murphy, Fev
Who is the winner there???
Fev over Richo
Judd over Brown
Stevens over Bowden
Murphy/Deledio toss of the coin at their age
That would be Carlton 3 Richmond o and 1 tie

 

[Rayzorwire]

Richmond.....i'm still trying to come up with something....Foley's good year, should have been AA

Show us a comparable Carlton player off the rookie list. You're all bagging Miller's recruiting and ignoring your own or talking up totally unproven 'maybe' players, but because of the way Miller spread our selections among different types of footballers with different qualities, we've ended up with a core group of very good young players, with a lot of early picks who were always going to take time to develop.

Fev over Richo

Get back to us when he's kicked as many goals as Richo. Until then, he's just another talented player - when he can be bothered - who hasn't got half the passion and heart for his football club that Richo has. He wouldn't even be there if the coach you dumped because he couldn't make manure sparkle hadn't begged him to stay.

But Fev's so perfect for Carlton...as best expressed by when we beat you last year and he refused to shake his opponent's hand.

Scum playing for scum.

Judd over Brown

Hasn't even played a game for you and they're totally different players. How about comparing Brown to your small forwards and see where you're at? You don't have anyone that can match Pettifer's output, let alone Brown at his best.

Stevens over Bowden

Another ridiculous comparison. Ask any football department in the land whether they'd rather have Stevens or Foley and you know what the answer would be.

Murphy/Deledio toss of the coin at their age

Just shows how deep your 'list of champions' goes that you even mention him doesn't it?

A player that hasn't even played a game for you yet, a junior who has proved next to nothing yet, an outside mid getting into his twilight years whose output has declined considerably from his days at a better club with a much better midfield, and a feral ticking time bomb full forward who specialises in dropping his bundle.

Three of them overpaid (which is why they're there), and one who soon will be.

There's plenty to celebrate at Carlton.

 

[iRemember87]

Show us a comparable Carlton player off the rookie list. You're all bagging Miller's recruiting and ignoring your own or talking up totally unproven 'maybe' players, but because of the way Miller spread our selections among different types of footballers with different qualities, we've ended up with a core group of very good young players, with a lot of early picks who were always going to take time to develop.

- where to start, Thorton, O'hAilpin, Jamison, Carrazzo
- but if Richmonds rookies are that much better name them??

- Good to see you make a valid point in saying kid take time to develop, so why are you all still mouthing off at Carlton, YOUNGEST list in the AFL

Get back to us when he's kicked as many goals as Richo. Until then, he's just another talented player - when he can be bothered - who hasn't got half the passion and heart for his football club that Richo has. He wouldn't even be there if the coach you dumped because he couldn't make manure sparkle hadn't begged him to stay.

But Fev's so perfect for Carlton...as best expressed by when we beat you last year and he refused to shake his opponent's hand.

Scum playing for scum.

Fev is younger the Richo idiot...so of course he hasn't kick as many....great point though you teacher might just give you a gold star.

Richo's best year was 96 with 91 goals...Fev best year so far was 06 with 84...
- but out of the 2, who is more likely to kick 100 in the next 2-3 years....
- Fev doesn't have to kick more goals, he's proven his a match winner off his own boot...

Hasn't even played a game for you and they're totally different players. How about comparing Brown to your small forwards and see where you're at? You don't have anyone that can match Pettifer's output, let alone Brown at his best.

- i was asked to compare the best of each team, Brown is in your best and best matches up with Judd, onballer who can play forward!!!

- Pettifer has potential....but what output are you talking about....have a look at someone like Brad Fisher or O'hAilpin...before making stupid remarks!!

- comparing the best players, have you forgotten that Judd played for WC...he is now at Carlton...so he has played, just cause he hasn't played at Carlton yet doesn't mean he hasn't played...you are a bigger fool!!!

Another ridiculous comparison. Ask any football department in the land whether they'd rather have Stevens or Foley and you know what the answer would be.

- are you serious?? i seen lots of teams lining up for Foley (he's palyed one good year, lets see 2008 before you make stupid arse comments).....get real buddy, why was it that when stevens wanted to come to Melb clubs lined the streets for him...wake up before you go into a coma!!!
- can Foley hit a target over 50m like stevens???

Just shows how deep your 'list of champions' goes that you even mention him doesn't it?

- Murphy has already proved he is a gun, 2006 was leading the NAB rising star before needing a shoulder reco....still could have won it after playing 12 games....ask the experts
- Lets not forget that Murphy got the number 1 tagger from each club in every game in 2007, next year he'll get the 3rd behind Judd and Stevens, lets look forward to round 1 against the Tigers
- what has Deledio done since his first year??? This year he learnt what is was liek to be a Richmond Footballer....a loser!!! God help the poor kid!!

A player that hasn't even played a game for you yet, a junior who has proved next to nothing yet, an outside mid getting into his twilight years whose output has declined considerably from his days at a better club with a much better midfield, and a feral ticking time bomb full forward who specialises in dropping his bundle.

Three of them overpaid (which is why they're there), and one who soon will be.

There's plenty to celebrate at Carlton.

But i guess Richmond have proven over history to be the better team!!!

 

[_RT_]

Blah Blah Blah............
Carlton will again have number one pick....
Pratt put up money so Carlton a posted $3mil profit
.................Blah Blah Blah

For all the dribble these are the only 2 things that are relevant to show how much of a rabble Carlton really are. They have the number 1 pick for the 3rd straight year, is that something a good young list should be achieving?

Pratt dipped into his loose change draw and handed the Blues an blank signed check and said, 'Fill in the amount, I'll cover it'. Before that happened the AFL said here is a $1.5 mil 'loan' just to keep you going. Is that something that a strong club like Carlton should be needing?

Finally they are a bunch of deluded fans who were trying as hard as they possibly could immediately after round 22 to convince all opposition supporters that they weren't tanking, their list was just poor, now that they have Judd these same deluded fools are trying to convince themselves that they will appear in the finals at the end of the 08 season. So now we might get an honest answer to the following:

What type of team loses its last 11 matches, one that had and still has a poor list or a team that was straight out tanking?

Has to be one or the other so which is it Carlton fans.

 

[iRemember87]

For all the dribble these are the only 2 things that are relevant to show how much of a rabble Carlton really are. They have the number 1 pick for the 3rd straight year, is that something a good young list should be achieving?

Pratt dipped into his loose change draw and handed the Blues an blank signed check and said, 'Fill in the amount, I'll cover it'. Before that happened the AFL said here is a $1.5 mil 'loan' just to keep you going. Is that something that a strong club like Carlton should be needing?

Finally they are a bunch of deluded fans who were trying as hard as they possibly could immediately after round 22 to convince all opposition supporters that they weren't tanking, their list was just poor, now that they have Judd these same deluded fools are trying to convince themselves that they will appear in the finals at the end of the 08 season. So now we might get an honest answer to the following:

What type of team loses its last 11 matches, one that had and still has a poor list or a team that was straight out tanking?

Has to be one or the other so which is it Carlton fans.

We aren't saying we are world beaters, we are saying we have a good young list with potential.....a list that we consider one of the best young lists going around...add experience of Judd and Stevens and things look better....in a few years, but still better than Richmond’s chances!!

Of course teams like WC, Geelong, Adelaide, Port etc have an experienced list, Carlton is young gaining experience and will get there soon.

The last 11 games was played by a bunch of player trying their guts and weren't good enough to win...why?? Because they are young and learning....but showed promise.
- get over the tanking issue, its all speculation
- did you see any of the games or just read the papers that made sales off the tanking issue??
- did you see the players after each game?? Gutted!!!

But in the end they have showed more promise than Richmond IMO, but why would we agree on that....

Look at the defeats Richmond had in 2007 compared to Carlton...who really played worse???

 

[_RT_]

We aren't saying we are world beaters, we are saying we have a good young list with potential.....a list that we consider one of the best young lists going around...add experience of Judd and Stevens and things look better....in a few years, but still better than Richmond’s chances!!

Of course teams like WC, Geelong, Adelaide, Port etc have an experienced list, Carlton is young gaining experience and will get there soon.

The last 11 games was played by a bunch of player trying their guts and weren't good enough to win...why?? Because they are young and learning....but showed promise.
- get over the tanking issue, its all speculation
- did you see any of the games or just read the papers that made sales off the tanking issue??
- did you see the players after each game?? Gutted!!!

But in the end they have showed more promise than Richmond IMO, but why would we agree on that....

Look at the defeats Richmond had in 2007 compared to Carlton...who really played worse???

Lets look at the defeats Richmond and Carlton had in 07 then.
100 points losses - Richmond 1 against Geelong, Carlton 2 against the Lions and Hawks.
Losses between 60-99 points - Richmond 2 against Geelong and Swans, Carlton 5 against Kangaroos, Sydney, Geelong, WCE & Fremantle.
Losses between 30-59 points - Richmond 5, Carlton 2.
Losses by 1-29 points - Richmond 10, Carlton 9.

There you have it Carlton had 7 losses by 10+ goals against Richmonds 3. Richmond had 15 losses by less than 10 goals Carlton had 11. Seems to indicate that Richmond were actually a better team just weren't able to get win a couple of close games. Just remember 1 more point against the Lions and Carlton would have 3 peated.

That is where you poor deluded Carlton fans shoot yourselves in the foot with your claims, you finished half a win ahead of Richmond (I know still ahead) and yet you try and claim your list is far superior to Richmonds and even more so because you get Stevens and Judd to include.

Now while you may scoff Richmond get a few handy inclusions of their own next season. Namely Coughlan(missed the last 18 months), Simmonds and Brown (both played well below peak fitness in 07) who should all be fully fit and raring to go.

See this is the other issue while some Tiger fans on here are one eyed Richmond there are some amongst us who can be objective (give it a try once in a while). I can sit here and say that there are quite a few Carlton players (not names like Murphy & Gibbs) that have caught my eye and who I will watch with interest over the next few years as they develop in opposition to Richmonds youngsters.

Here is my take on how the year will go for the 2 sides, both should hit the ground full of beans as any young side will and may even be sitting around the 8 after about 5-7 rounds, then the days start to get a bit colder, then the still developing bodies of the youngsters will start feeling the effects of getting belted by their bigger opponents. They start getting tired as the long season wears on and by about round 15-17 will be looking for the finish of the season. End result middle of the bottom 8.

Remember both teams are now severly lacking in experienced heads to lead the kids. Yes the Blues have Judd, Stevens & Scotland but after that who is there to step in, Fev, Houlihan. Same thing at Richmond, Johnson is captain (at present), then there is Bowden, Richo, Brown & Simmonds and maybe Tivendale, Newman as well.

My signature might say Richmond to make the 8 in 08, but I know in reality that is a long shot.

 

[drjimminez]

I think tambling gets unfairly criticized he was injured for his first year! I think he will come good but you all just need to cool your jets...