Multiculturalism - Should we change for others, or should they change for us?

[skipper kelly]

Well, yes. What I'm saying, however, is that it isn't an issue for any self-evident or 'common sense' reason. The issue exists only within its political and social context - a reaction to multiculturalism.

The very fact that it arose within this thread exemplifies the truth of that statement.

But cant I partake in the public debate of 'non english people driving in australia' from a safety viewpoint?

 

[Monkster]

You've spent about ten pages arguing that people should have to speak English. Obviously, once they speak a language they are unlikely to forget how to speak it, but this is a very disingenuous attempt to dodge the point.

You know the problem with assumptions? Generally they are wrong.

People are free to speak as many languages as they wish but when speaking to me they are to speak English because that is the only language I understand.

 

[- PC -]

They shop where ever they damn well like - just as you do
And they support themselves with a job - just as you do

They can shop where they like certainly. But I fear the only jobs available will be sweat shops. Are you a supporter of sweat shops Murray?

 

[CharlieG]

But cant I partake in the public debate of 'non english people driving in australia' from a safety viewpoint?

Of course. I did so earlier on. It's still not a neutral viewpoint, though.

 

[CharlieG]

You know the problem with assumptions? Generally they are wrong.

People are free to speak as many languages as they wish but when speaking to me they are to speak English because that is the only language I understand.

So, after all this, you acknowledge that the problem is with you rather than 'them'.

Simple. Don't talk to people you don't understand.

 

[hawkeye23]

What an absolute joke, there is no reason why someone should live in an English speaking country and not know English, just as there is no reason why someone should live in a Non-English speaking country and expect everyone to understand English. Requiring people to be able to speak the official language of a country is hardly racist.

Monkster, wholeheartedly agree with you here. Have just returned from France, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

What I didn't enjoy was my travelling companion, who absolutely point-blank refused to attempt to speak French while we were there. Now, I'm no expert on the French language, but I was more than willing to have a go. Not my travelling companion. Made life very difficult, as I was having to translate (with limited ability) for my companion as well.

My argument was this: if a French person came on holiday to Australia, would you expect them to speak French to you, thereby refusing to try English, then go out of your way to help them? No, you wouldn't. Then why expect the same in reverse?

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Goes double for permanent residents.

 

[Murray]

They can shop where they like certainly. But I fear the only jobs available will be sweat shops. Are you a supporter of sweat shops Murray?

So you go from what I said to asking me if I am a supporter of a sweat shop.

Gee this thread is getting even more stupid

 

[skipper kelly]

Of course. I did so earlier on. It's still not a neutral viewpoint, though.

Isnt it a neutral political viewpoint?

anyway.

 

[Murray]

So, after all this, you acknowledge that the problem is with you rather than 'them'.

Simple. Don't talk to people you don't understand.

And there Charlie, is the entire crux of the matter.

It took 11 pages to get here, but get here we did

 

[Monkster]

So, after all this, you acknowledge that the problem is with you rather than 'them'.

Simple. Don't talk to people you don't understand.

Which means people who don't speak English won't talk to anyone except those from their country, which in turn becomes segregation, do you support segregation? I think we're getting to the truth here, you don't mind people coming here as long as they stick to their own kind. Funny I thought I was the racist.

See I can make wrong assumptions based ont hings you've said as well.

 

[Monkster]

Monkster, wholeheartedly agree with you here. Have just returned from France, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

What I didn't enjoy was my travelling companion, who absolutely point-blank refused to attempt to speak French while we were there. Now, I'm no expert on the French language, but I was more than willing to have a go. Not my travelling companion. Made life very difficult, as I was having to translate (with limited ability) for my companion as well.

My argument was this: if a French person came on holiday to Australia, would you expect them to speak French to you, thereby refusing to try English, then go out of your way to help them? No, you wouldn't. Then why expect the same in reverse?

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Goes double for permanent residents.

Thank you Hawkeye and I applaud you for doing your best to learn the language of the country you were visiting

 

[Monkster]

And there Charlie, is the entire crux of the matter.

It took 11 pages to get here, but get here we did

So the crux of the matter is you support segregation, well done, racist.

 

[Philhawk]

So that being said Monkster - you have nothing against foreigners coming to Australia with English as their second language - so long as they as least are able to speak English?

 

[- PC -]

So you go from what I said to asking me if I am a supporter of a sweat shop.

Yes it is a long bow. But where would you expect people who cant speak English to work?

 

[Monkster]

So that being said Monkster - you have nothing against foreigners coming to Australia with English as their second language - so long as they as least are able to speak English?

Well done someone finally worked it out

 

[Murray]

So the crux of the matter is you support segregation, well done, racist.

There you go again.
Why do you assume all people are like you?
You might think the only alternative is segregation (because that is the way your mind works) but many of us would never even consider that as an option.

 

[Philhawk]

Yes it is a long bow. But where would you expect people who cant speak English to work?

I dont think you should automatically assume that those who dont speak english will go work in a sweat shop. I mean I can understand vaguely where you are coming from - but that brings about another question. Those who cannot speak English tend so socialise with others who dont speak english very well. As such this leads to racial slums popping up in parts of cities which is detrimental to society as a whole.

 

[Monkster]

I dont think you should automatically assume that those who dont speak english will go work in a sweat shop. I mean I can understand vaguely where you are coming from - but that brings about another question. Those who cannot speak English tend so socialise with others who dont speak english very well. As such this leads to racial slums popping up in parts of cities which is detrimental to society as a whole.

Which is also segregation.

Murray you do realise that you can segregate yourself right?

 

[Murray]

Yes it is a long bow. But where would you expect people who cant speak English to work?

Do you honestly believe that people who cannot speak English DO NOT ALREADY work in Australia?

Do you think those jobs just fell out of the sky one day?

You try to create problems where there are none, or where the issue has already been resolved decades ago

 

[Philhawk]

Well done someone finally worked it out

lol but doesnt that bring about the question - what is more important - speaking English or "being an Australian"

To me , being an Australian doesnt mean walking around speaking the language of Crocodile Dundee , its attributes like
- treating everyone equally and giving them a fair go
- mateship and qualities such as that
- acceptance and appreciation of other cultures aside from your own

I mean whats more important , being a good parent , a good husband , paying your taxes - or speaking English ?

 

[Monkster]

lol but doesnt that bring about the question - what is more important - speaking English or "being an Australian"

To me , being an Australian doesnt mean walking around speaking the language of Crocodile Dundee , its attributes like
- treating everyone equally and giving them a fair go
- mateship and qualities such as that
- acceptance and appreciation of other cultures aside from your own

I mean whats more important , being a good parent , a good husband , paying your taxes - or speaking English ?

In my mind all are equally important.

You can be a good father and be a terrible husband that doesnt make you a good person.

 

[Philhawk]

In my mind all are equally important.

You can be a good father and be a terrible husband that doesnt make you a good person.

But does Australia want people who are good people who cant speak english? or "bad" people who can?

 

[skipper kelly]

I mean whats more important , being a good parent , a good husband , paying your taxes - or speaking English ?

1. Good parent
2. Speaking English
eq3. the other 2.

 

[- PC -]

So that being said Monkster - you have nothing against foreigners coming to Australia with English as their second language - so long as they as least are able to speak English?

Ditto for me. No problems with people wanting to come to Australia. Just feel its important that English is able to be spoken. How that makes me racist I still havent figured out.There are a lot of issues...some to do with my feelings of comfort in day to day communication...and other areas such as safety and the ability to understand signs etc.

 

[Moosehead]

Translation
Australian
English
You
How
Supposed
Permanently
I'm
Australia
people


And this ignoramus has the audacity to question the English skills of migrants.
You fool

oh no i made some typos go have a cry. you obviously have people in your family that dont know english. IMO to qualify as australian you must be able to understand english atleast as much as a 10 yo... simple