List Mgmt. National & Rookie Draft 2021

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Hey guys, thought you might like to have this resource on your board (scuse the intrusion!) – mods might like to sticky it so it's visible at the top of the thread

 
www.foxsports.com.au

Giants retiree could launch ANOTHER comeback bid; Club’s two player plan revealed

Giants retiree could launch ANOTHER comeback bid; Club’s two player plan revealed
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

From the attached article

"The Giants are reportedly considering drafting close friends Finn Callaghan and Blake Howes together in next week’s draft in a bid to increase the chances the pair will remain together at the club for the long-term.

The pair played together for the Sandringham Dragons and, The Age reports, are keen to play alongside one another in the future.

Callaghan would be selected by the Giants with their first pick (currently No.2) before taking Howes with their next selection, which is Pick 15.

The pair have been friends since kindergarten and have attended both primary school and high school together as well as playing football together."
 

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hangdog said:
www.foxsports.com.au

Giants retiree could launch ANOTHER comeback bid; Club’s two player plan revealed

Giants retiree could launch ANOTHER comeback bid; Club’s two player plan revealed
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

From the attached article

"The Giants are reportedly considering drafting close friends Finn Callaghan and Blake Howes together in next week’s draft in a bid to increase the chances the pair will remain together at the club for the long-term.

The pair played together for the Sandringham Dragons and, The Age reports, are keen to play alongside one another in the future.

Callaghan would be selected by the Giants with their first pick (currently No.2) before taking Howes with their next selection, which is Pick 15.

The pair have been friends since kindergarten and have attended both primary school and high school together as well as playing football together."
Click to expand...
**** me
What’s the afl a ****en school kids Comp now
 
bird_man said:
Well he trained mostly with the forwards through pre season, played the practice matches forward and spent time between forward and wing in his first couple of VFL games.

Gallagher was also quoted ins saying that we were targetting key forward depth when we took him in the draft.

Not saying we didn't see him as a versatile type but we clearly saw him forward to start with.
Click to expand...

Maybe, not disputing anything, but they do say all sorts of things in the press, and not all of them are strictly true......
 
hangdog said:
www.foxsports.com.au

Giants retiree could launch ANOTHER comeback bid; Club’s two player plan revealed

Giants retiree could launch ANOTHER comeback bid; Club’s two player plan revealed
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

From the attached article

"The Giants are reportedly considering drafting close friends Finn Callaghan and Blake Howes together in next week’s draft in a bid to increase the chances the pair will remain together at the club for the long-term.

The pair played together for the Sandringham Dragons and, The Age reports, are keen to play alongside one another in the future.

Callaghan would be selected by the Giants with their first pick (currently No.2) before taking Howes with their next selection, which is Pick 15.

The pair have been friends since kindergarten and have attended both primary school and high school together as well as playing football together."
Click to expand...

Thats good for us as GWS have been linked with Owens at pick 15 at various times
 
I'm still less about AFL so I just want to ask a question to clear something up.

The national draft is for players who have just reached the age where they can join the AFL right? It is equivalent to a draft in North American sports? If that is accurate than what is the rookie draft?
 
Tommy Wigs said:
So ..: now they have been nominated - if they aren’t bid on, we get to take them as Cat B?

How about say McLennan - can still nominate as a rookie?
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Can't get McLennan as a Cat B because we didn't nominate him I think.

Hopefully he plays at Sandy and, if he's good enough, gets into the club in the mid season
 
St Kilda Senators said:
I'm still less about AFL so I just want to ask a question to clear something up.

The national draft is for players who have just reached the age where they can join the AFL right? It is equivalent to a draft in North American sports? If that is accurate than what is the rookie draft?
Click to expand...

Not to sure about American sports but yes that sounds correct. The rookie draft is essentially a secondary list where the players generally get a lower starting salary and shorter deal but a chance to prove themselves if clubs see them as too risky to draft or plain just wouldn't draft them otherwise due to various reasons. Although it is often used by clubs to help them juggle main list spots and retain some older guys.
 

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St Kilda Senators said:
I'm still less about AFL so I just want to ask a question to clear something up.

The national draft is for players who have just reached the age where they can join the AFL right? It is equivalent to a draft in North American sports? If that is accurate than what is the rookie draft?
Click to expand...

The national draft is for anyone who wants to nominate, as long as they are above the minimum age. The clubs are highly focussed on kids, and heavily discount older player as they have already been in the system and decisions made on (in previous years draft). Clubs do however occasionally pick older players (so called "mature-age' players), such as we did last year with Tom Highmore.

The rookie list is a separate part of the roster which is for extra players that the club is unsure about. Originally there was an age limit on rookies (no older than 24) but I don't believe this is the case anymore. Rookies have a lower base salary, and there are restrictions on how long a player can be on the rookie list. The closest equivalent I can think of is being put on an NFL training squad.

The rookie draft is then a separate draft held after the main draft (the "National Draft") for players who missed out.

Up until a couple of years ago, these were the only way to get onto an AFL list - it was (and still is) much more tightly controlled than the NFL. In recent years the AFL has loosened things quite a bit, particularly with the option to add unsigned players up until just before the season starts. However, the reality is that the main list will be set in stone at the draft, with the possibility of one or two changes from there. Certainly there is no possibility of waiving a player and picking up a free-agent or undrafted player as happens in the NFL.

Just to confuse you further, there are also Category B Rookies, which is a separate list for players from a non-football background (i.e. basketball players, such as Sam Alabakis) or a migrant background.

So you've probably seen the talk in the last hour or so about the four boys we've nominated from our Next Generation Academy - Owens, Windhager, Peris and Kyle. All four boys have nominated for the national draft and are available for any club to pick. If they are picked later than the top twenty we can match the bid at a heavy discount, which is what is expected with Owens and Windhager. Peris and Kyle are unlikely to be selected in the draft however, and so then they would automatically enter the rookie draft (all undrafted candidates are automatically made available again in the rookie draft, unless they choose to opt out). However, because they have been nominated as NGA players, they can be added to our Category B rookie list before any bidding in the Rookie draft.

The AFL has developed the system based on the NFL, but tailored for the Australian employment environment. We also have tacked on a bunch of stupid rules that compromise the equalisation effect of the draft for various reasons.

Hope that helps, and I haven't waffled to much!!!
 
Ailurus said:
Maybe not though, If they just want 2 sandy boys they could grab Owens. Howes is about as much of a reach and a similar player.
Click to expand...
He's been ranked consistently higher so less of a stretch. I think it's more than the Sandy connection. They've known each other since kindergarten
 
PlayerNumber9 said:
The national draft is for anyone who wants to nominate, as long as they are above the minimum age. The clubs are highly focussed on kids, and heavily discount older player as they have already been in the system and decisions made on (in previous years draft). Clubs do however occasionally pick older players (so called "mature-age' players), such as we did last year with Tom Highmore.

The rookie list is a separate part of the roster which is for extra players that the club is unsure about. Originally there was an age limit on rookies (no older than 24) but I don't believe this is the case anymore. Rookies have a lower base salary, and there are restrictions on how long a player can be on the rookie list. The closest equivalent I can think of is being put on an NFL training squad.

The rookie draft is then a separate draft held after the main draft (the "National Draft") for players who missed out.

Up until a couple of years ago, these were the only way to get onto an AFL list - it was (and still is) much more tightly controlled than the NFL. In recent years the AFL has loosened things quite a bit, particularly with the option to add unsigned players up until just before the season starts. However, the reality is that the main list will be set in stone at the draft, with the possibility of one or two changes from there. Certainly there is no possibility of waiving a player and picking up a free-agent or undrafted player as happens in the NFL.

Just to confuse you further, there are also Category B Rookies, which is a separate list for players from a non-football background (i.e. basketball players, such as Sam Alabakis) or a migrant background.

So you've probably seen the talk in the last hour or so about the four boys we've nominated from our Next Generation Academy - Owens, Windhager, Peris and Kyle. All four boys have nominated for the national draft and are available for any club to pick. If they are picked later than the top twenty we can match the bid at a heavy discount, which is what is expected with Owens and Windhager. Peris and Kyle are unlikely to be selected in the draft however, and so then they would automatically enter the rookie draft (all undrafted candidates are automatically made available again in the rookie draft, unless they choose to opt out). However, because they have been nominated as NGA players, they can be added to our Category B rookie list before any bidding in the Rookie draft.

The AFL has developed the system based on the NFL, but tailored for the Australian employment environment. We also have tacked on a bunch of stupid rules that compromise the equalisation effect of the draft for various reasons.

Hope that helps, and I haven't waffled to much!!!
Click to expand...

What rules are there around guys on the rookie roster playing games? Also, do most players in the league go through club academies? Or are there other avenues for youth to play and develop?
 
D2D3 said:
I can't figure out why Sonsie has dropped so far in the ratings tbh. He looks every bit as exciting as the main group we are looking at in the range of our pick and sounds very much like what we need.
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Inconsistency.
 
Joffaboy said:
I sometimes don't understand your logic gringo. You stoutly defended Dunstan and was adamant we were wrong in letting him go, but he only came good after 7 years on the list.

Clark and Coff have been on the list three years, next year is their fourth but they have to perform or Libba is in trouble because they haven't come on?

FWIW I tend to agree with you, Clark has already shown a fair bit, Coff in fits and starts, but both need to become more consistent, however you seem to b inconsistent yourself in the measuring of players and if they have developed.
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Well if they stay GOPs then he's not a great recruiter. He was understudy to Trout and has been head recruiter for a few years outright. He needs to hit targets or he should be looked at like every other member of staff. We can't spend another 10 years hoping a recruiter will come good. It's the most important position in the club. Get recruiting wrong and you are papering cracks.


I was Duny's biggest critic but if we want to play finals keeping a guy that is on paper one of your better players for the year makes perfect sense. I find your cheap likes chasing confusing because you've spent a decade being a combative contrarian.

If Clark and Coff don't improve they will be the next Newnes, Dunny, Acres. It's not a difficult concept.
 
Joffaboy said:
No Trout fan, was a pretty poor, however that was right in the midst of the compromised drafts, and as you say the draft was ordinary after the first round, even in the first, O'Rourke went two, Jaksch went 12, Lonergan went at our pick 13.

Could never understand drafting Tom Lee but the poison dwarf loved his WA players. What they did in trading picks was fair enough but we needed a Libba in charge with those later picks not a Trout.

And as you say we ended up with three of the better later picks after trades.
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Pick 12 and 13 left us in no mans land a bit because the top 10 were probably an above average strike rate but fell away pretty swiftly. It was skipping Grundy for the more developed Hickey that was the biggest miss. We picked bad drafts to go all in on under Trout and Pelican.
 
gringo2011 said:
If Clark and Coff don't improve they will be the next Newnes, Dunny, Acres. It's not a difficult concept.
Click to expand...
I think we forget how young Coff is and how good his 2020 season was
5th in the B&F 2020 ? at the age of 19/20 is good effort
Hunter is doing extras and shadowing Steele this off season
 
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St Kilda Senators said:
What rules are there around guys on the rookie roster playing games? Also, do most players in the league go through club academies? Or are there other avenues for youth to play and develop?
Click to expand...
Most players come through the established junior pathways which are completely separate to the clubs. In Victoria this is the NAB League with teams such as the Sandringham Dragons, Dandenong Stingrays, Calder Cannons etc. These teams take players in as Under 16 players and develop them as an elite pathway, much like the college system in the US. In the other states (WA, SA) there are similar arrangements although they are linked directly to the state leagues.

In the Northern States, which have traditionally played rugby league, the the AFL established academies to serve the same purpose, but they were directly tied to the AFL clubs (Sydney, GWS, Brisbane, Gold Coast). To assist with local representation, these clubs were given preferential access to players in their Academies, with Sydney in particular securing some very good players this way.

So, the other clubs complained about the inequality and the AFL responded not by removing it, by by doubling down on the academies, creating the "Next Generation Academies" to attract non-traditional candidates. This means athletes from non-football backgrounds (i.e. basketball, rugby, athletics), or migrant and indigenous heritage. These have provided a trickle of players, culminating last year when the first pick in the draft came through the Western Bulldogs' NGA. St Kilda has nominated four players from our NGA this year, suggesting we think they are worthy of being on an AFL list - this is a large number for an NGA. By way of comparison the NAB League teams will provide probably half of all drafted players, so 20 - 30 players.

Where this all gets stupid is the NGA boys all play in the NAB league (or equivalent), so are already in the elite pathway. The NGA program simply provides some additional coaching, and closer contact with the AFL club - NGA players train at the club, and will have more contact with the club.

With the rookie list, there is now no restriction on players being able to play. Up until a few years ago, a listed player had to be put onto the long term injury list to free up a spot for a rookie to be upgraded; this is still how the Category B rookie list works. With the change however, a rookie listed player can play at any time. Callum Wilkie was recruited as a mature aged rookie three years ago, but was selected to play in the first game of the 2019 season. After playing every game of the 2019 season he was offered a multi-year contract on reasonable money, effectively establishing him as a full AFL player. However, he was left on the rookie list because of the administrative convenience (i.e. he's not taking up a spot on the main list, allowing us to select an additional player to that list). At the start of 2021 he was elevated into our leadership team, effectively making him one of our most respected players, and among the first selected in the team. Yet it was only in recent weeks that he was moved to the main list, due to the rule limiting the time a player can spend on the rookie list.
 
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