Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Pleasedontfail11]

Who had the most contested possessions in the 2023 grand final?

Maybe it wasn't Nick but........


It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased. They don't barrack for anyone, and they never lie.

Exhibit A in the Daicos case is last year's Grand Final where the Pies won in a classic.

The top 10 contested ball winners for Collingwood were … in equal 10th – Steele Sidebottom, Jamie Elliott and Brayden Maynard with six contested possessions. In equal eighth – Jordan De Goey and Will Hoskin-Elliott at seven apiece. In sixth was Pat Lipinski with eight. Scott Pendlebury and Jack Crisp came in at equal fourth with nine contested possessions.

Tom Mitchell and Darcy Cameron were equal second with 10 contested possessions.

So, you guessed it, the man that many think, ‘Doesn't win his own contested ball’, who, ‘Won't make a small forward’, and who virtually won the premiership with a handball most couldn't even conceive, let alone achieve, was in first place with 11 contested possessions.

That was Nick Daicos in last year's Grand Final.
It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased. They don't barrack for anyone, and they never lie.

Exhibit A in the Daicos case is last year's Grand Final where the Pies won in a classic.

What more do you want? The stats that prove Daicos naysayers have no leg to stand on

It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Maybe it wasn't Nick but........


It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased. They don't barrack for anyone, and they never lie.

Exhibit A in the Daicos case is last year's Grand Final where the Pies won in a classic.

The top 10 contested ball winners for Collingwood were … in equal 10th – Steele Sidebottom, Jamie Elliott and Brayden Maynard with six contested possessions. In equal eighth – Jordan De Goey and Will Hoskin-Elliott at seven apiece. In sixth was Pat Lipinski with eight. Scott Pendlebury and Jack Crisp came in at equal fourth with nine contested possessions.

Tom Mitchell and Darcy Cameron were equal second with 10 contested possessions.

So, you guessed it, the man that many think, ‘Doesn't win his own contested ball’, who, ‘Won't make a small forward’, and who virtually won the premiership with a handball most couldn't even conceive, let alone achieve, was in first place with 11 contested possessions.

That was Nick Daicos in last year's Grand Final.
It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased. They don't barrack for anyone, and they never lie.

Exhibit A in the Daicos case is last year's Grand Final where the Pies won in a classic.

What more do you want? The stats that prove Daicos naysayers have no leg to stand on

It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased.

www.sen.com.au

Are you talking to yourself?

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Are you talking to yourself?

When people post they are not talking....

 

[nahnah]

Yes he can, long way to go but he’s off to a great start

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Seven more handballs and a 10% better disposal efficiency per game isn't a small amount, and goes a long way to explaining the difference in metres gained per disposal.

Any comments on my earlier post which described Daicos' negative 3 metres gained play?

Who cares about meters gained per disposal??

 

[Fadge]

Who cares about meters gained per disposal??

The posters who were knocking Daicos for his 'average metres gained per possession' statistic.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The posters who were knocking Daicos for his 'average metres gained per possession' statistic.

lol. The best option forward is the most effective one, not the longest one.

Utterly meaningless useless stat.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Maybe it wasn't Nick but........


It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased. They don't barrack for anyone, and they never lie.

Exhibit A in the Daicos case is last year's Grand Final where the Pies won in a classic.

The top 10 contested ball winners for Collingwood were … in equal 10th – Steele Sidebottom, Jamie Elliott and Brayden Maynard with six contested possessions. In equal eighth – Jordan De Goey and Will Hoskin-Elliott at seven apiece. In sixth was Pat Lipinski with eight. Scott Pendlebury and Jack Crisp came in at equal fourth with nine contested possessions.

Tom Mitchell and Darcy Cameron were equal second with 10 contested possessions.

So, you guessed it, the man that many think, ‘Doesn't win his own contested ball’, who, ‘Won't make a small forward’, and who virtually won the premiership with a handball most couldn't even conceive, let alone achieve, was in first place with 11 contested possessions.

That was Nick Daicos in last year's Grand Final.
It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased. They don't barrack for anyone, and they never lie.

Exhibit A in the Daicos case is last year's Grand Final where the Pies won in a classic.

What more do you want? The stats that prove Daicos naysayers have no leg to stand on

It's why I love Champion Data, for the numbers aren't biased.

www.sen.com.au

You will destroy Fadge from within posting stuff like this.

CD rated Peter Daicos's two kids 10th BOG and 34th BOG.

Nickthekickins was K-Mart Richmond's 5th highest rated player in the fiasco. Not bad by any means, but doesn't exactly insert you into the GOAT conversation with a bullet.

 

[Fadge]

You will destroy Fadge from within posting stuff like this.

CD rated Peter Daicos's two kids 10th BOG and 34th BOG.

Nickthekickins was K-Mart Richmond's 5th highest rated player in the fiasco. Not bad by any means, but doesn't exactly insert you into the GOAT conversation with a bullet.

As I've said previously, Daicos has already achieved something your boy Martin has never been able to - return from injury and heavily influence close finals. And this is as a 20 year old.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

You will destroy Fadge from within posting stuff like this.

CD rated Peter Daicos's two kids 10th BOG and 34th BOG.

Nickthekickins was K-Mart Richmond's 5th highest rated player in the fiasco. Not bad by any means, but doesn't exactly insert you into the GOAT conversation with a bullet.

K-Mart Richmond? Oh you mean Collingwood...... good one.
I'm not a big supporter of this thread, it's at least 5 years premature, however Nick is as good in a contest as anyone when playing in the midfield.
I would prefer he stay out of it for a few more years and let his body develop (21 year old are not fully developed). However there were plenty talking crap about his contest work. The GF just shows that when he is in there he gets contested possessions.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Nick Daicos.

We have never seen a player do what he has done in his first two seasons. Many people have said he was the best first/second year player since Chris Judd. Chris Judd didn't do what Nick Daicos has done in his first two seasons.

Aside from playing in the premiership last year, what is it exactly that he has done?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

As I've said previously, Daicos has already achieved something your boy Martin has never been able to - return from injury and heavily influence close finals. And this is as a 20 year old.

Yep Dusty will I suppose just have to satisfy himself with 3 Smith medals, 3 Ayres Medals, Brownlow & Coaches MVP with record votes, highest average finals goal impact(goals + assists) this century of any Premiership player, all time lowest average goal deficit across multiple Grand Finals to the opposition TEAM(2.66 goals scored less than the opposition teams per Grand Final played,) highest average player rating in finals etc etc.

But what's this? Serial fact fudger Fadge is at it again. More outright lies. Daicos in his return from injury final has no goals, no assists and a putrid 2 score involvements on his way to being rated the 20th most influential player in the match. According to Fadge this counts as heavily influencing finals. More astonishing stuff from the master of Daicos deceit.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

K-Mart Richmond? Oh you mean Collingwood...... good one.
I'm not a big supporter of this thread, it's at least 5 years premature, however Nick is as good in a contest as anyone when playing in the midfield.
I would prefer he stay out of it for a few more years and let his body develop (21 year old are not fully developed). However there were plenty talking crap about his contest work. The GF just shows that when he is in there he gets contested possessions.

Come on Pleasedon't, we have all seen the footage of little Nick jumping out of the way and crying for his mum when there was any danger of forceful front on contact. He does it, he has to own it. We can't just conveniently forget that happened. You can't do that and be in the GOAT discussion, and in any event, as you correctly point out, it is way premature.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

How do you not understand that Matthews and Ablett SR played in a different era where it was a lot easier to dominate and go forward to kick goals?

Modern defences and team structures just don't allow it. It's why modern forwards kick less goals than 80s forwards despite being way more athletic and talented

I understand it perfectly. In this era players play much narrower and team-focused roles which most often rules them out of being considered alongside the GOAT individuals of the past, who produced so much more diverse brilliance in their careers.

That’s just where the game is at.

Same as it rules key forwards out of being prolific goalkickers like those in the past.

Could they do it if given the opportunity? Quite possibly. But you can’t just assume it. Then you’re just dreaming.

It’s where the AFL is at. Nobody at the moment is going to be considered in the GOAT conversation in 50 years time or more. The game is too regimented around the team, the team, the team.

Does it suck a bit as a fan? Maybe. You hear plenty of people saying it was much better to watch 30-40 years ago. But that’s subjective, it’s in the eye of the beholder.

It may swing back toward individual displays. It is just a footy thing. Plenty of people call the likes of Lebron, Brady, Messi or Ronaldo the GOAT individual, or acknowledge they are in the conversation. Modern day fitness and technology hasn’t stopped their individualism like it has AFL players. It’s just the prevailing wisdom in footy at the moment that overall, the way to conquer it is totally team-based and defensive. Oh well.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Aside from playing in the premiership last year, what is it exactly that he has done?

Well let's see shall we...after 2 years :

Apart from being widely regarded as reigning premier Collingwood's best player and the second best player in the comp behind Bont:

He has:
won the rising star, Bob Rose cup, AFLPA best first year player, 2x AA U/22, AfLCA best young player, Anzac day medal, AA best 22 selection, 3rd in Brownlow and would have won but for injury. Premiership medal and one of his team's best players in the grand final .

I hope that answers your question for you

 

[Kappa]

I understand it perfectly. In this era players play much narrower and team-focused roles which most often rules them out of being considered alongside the GOAT individuals of the past, who produced so much more diverse brilliance in their careers.

That’s just where the game is at.

Same as it rules key forwards out of being prolific goalkickers like those in the past.

Could they do it if given the opportunity? Quite possibly. But you can’t just assume it. Then you’re just dreaming.

It’s where the AFL is at. Nobody at the moment is going to be considered in the GOAT conversation in 50 years time or more. The game is too regimented around the team, the team, the team.

Does it suck a bit as a fan? Maybe. You hear plenty of people saying it was much better to watch 30-40 years ago. But that’s subjective, it’s in the eye of the beholder.

It may swing back toward individual displays. It is just a footy thing. Plenty of people call the likes of Lebron, Brady, Messi or Ronaldo the GOAT individual, or acknowledge they are in the conversation. Modern day fitness and technology hasn’t stopped their individualism like it has AFL players. It’s just the prevailing wisdom in footy at the moment that overall, the way to conquer it is totally team-based and defensive. Oh well.

Do you also understand the stars from the past were able to be full time athletes and were playing against a lot of part time athletes who also were drinkers/smokers, thus making it WAY WAY easier for them to dominate... ?

There was also no proper tactics, zones, or defensive presses, also making it WAY WAY easier for them to dominate.

There was also 10 times less pressure and more space on the field, making it more 1 on 1 and making it WAY WAY easier for them to dominate...

 

[cliffdrabble]

Wasn't aware we were judging the capabilities of a supporter group

Like me, all footballer followers know that Nicky is an elite footballer in the making, but they also know he prefers to be outside of congestion

And certainly miles off GOAT conversations

Yes the GOAT conversations are ridiculous. He is not even ahead of Bontempelli and quite a few others at this stage, but some of the rubbish you and that Richmond village idiot have written in this thread ,is completely ignorant and makes you both look like morons.

Daicos's role in our team, as stipulated by the senior coach is to be ready to receive the ball because he has the best disposal and decision making in the whole club, hence he gets lots of uncontested possessions. It's called using your players greatest strengths to complement the team. He also gets lots of contested possessions and was our most significant hard ball winner in the GF. To argue against that is total idiocy.

Sam Walsh also prefers to be outside of congestion as his role at Carlton is the 'link player' and Sam Walsh like nearly every footballer I have ever seen, bar the Joel Selwoods, has not gone hard at every contest.

Not even someone who has played at the highest level like Gerald Healy can convince the morons.

 

[cliffdrabble]

Are you talking to yourself?

Well it is hard to educate morons so possibly he is talking to himself

 

[Fadge]

Aside from playing in the premiership last year, what is it exactly that he has done?

He was the undisputedly the number 1 player in the competition in 2023, in the same way GAJ was the number 1 player in the competition in 2014.

In only his second season in the competition.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yep Dusty will I suppose just have to satisfy himself with 3 Smith medals, 3 Ayres Medals, Brownlow & Coaches MVP with record votes, highest average finals goal impact(goals + assists) this century of any Premiership player, all time lowest average goal deficit across multiple Grand Finals to the opposition TEAM(2.66 goals scored less than the opposition teams per Grand Final played,) highest average player rating in finals etc etc.

But what's this? Serial fact fudger Fadge is at it again. More outright lies. Daicos in his return from injury final has no goals, no assists and a putrid 2 score involvements on his way to being rated the 20th most influential player in the match. According to Fadge this counts as heavily influencing finals. More astonishing stuff from the master of Daicos deceit.

Ultimately this is why you are in the thread pot shotting Daicos. Your trolling will inevitably draw valid criticisms of Martin (was excellent in the 3 finals series Richmond were the dominant team; in the 5 finals series they weren't: not so much) and then you'll reel off the catalogue of achievements like a bot. Including that "proportional goals compared to another teams score" routine you love so much that makes everybody laugh at you.

Just stick to the Ayres, Norm Smiths and singular season achieving the big 3 H&A awards. They are enough to make Martin a champ. They aren't enough to make him a GOAT contender and no amount of fluff around the rest (highest Player Ratings TM) is going to change that.

Daicos on the other hand is so early on and was already on target to sweep the regular season awards like Martin 2017 in just his second year. Pivotal role in two close knockout finals that secured the premiership. And who knows he might have 15 years left. The sky is the limit. He has plenty of time to round out any perceived weaknesses.

By default he has a far greater chance of entering a GOAT discussion than Martin. That race has already ran for Dusty unless he somehow winds the clock back to his 2017-2020 form for another 5 years.

 

[Worm4]

Well let's see shall we...after 2 years :

Apart from being widely regarded as reigning premier Collingwood's best player and the second best player in the comp behind Bont:

He has:
won the rising star, Bob Rose cup, AFLPA best first year player, 2x AA U/22, AfLCA best young player, Anzac day medal, AA best 22 selection, 3rd in Brownlow and would have won but for injury. Premiership medal and one of his team's best players in the grand final .

I hope that answers your question for you

There's a lot of fluff in that compilation. Would have, could have, should have .

 

[Worm4]

He was the undisputedly the number 1 player in the competition in 2023, in the same way GAJ was the number 1 player in the competition in 2014.

In only his second season in the competition.

It's actually disputedly, which is why it's being discussed

 

[Fadge]

It's actually disputedly, which is why it's being discussed

Nothing disputed about it.

He was sweeping EVERY individual award the game has to offer, and despite missing the last 4 games, still finished in the top 3, within a bee's appendage of the winner for all of them.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yes the GOAT conversations are ridiculous. He is not even ahead of Bontempelli and quite a few others at this stage, but some of the rubbish you and that Richmond village idiot have written in this thread ,is completely ignorant and makes you both look like morons.

Daicos's role in our team, as stipulated by the senior coach is to be ready to receive the ball because he has the best disposal and decision making in the whole club, hence he gets lots of uncontested possessions. It's called using your players greatest strengths to complement the team. He also gets lots of contested possessions and was our most significant hard ball winner in the GF. To argue against that is total idiocy.

Sam Walsh also prefers to be outside of congestion as his role at Carlton is the 'link player' and Sam Walsh like nearly every footballer I have ever seen, bar the Joel Selwoods, has not gone hard at every contest.

Not even someone who has played at the highest level like Gerald Healy can convince the morons.

You clearly do not understand Sam Walsh as a footballer. Where I have no doubt people would concede Daicos is a more damaging ball user, Walsh is much stronger in a contest. Walsh was 6 months younger than Daicos when he was recruited, which is roughly the average amount all players are younger than Daicos was at that time when they are recruited. So Walsh's 3rd season in 2021 is just as apt for comparison to Daicos's second season in 2023 as Walsh's second season is.

Walsh 2021 v Daicos 2023 comparison with a focus on contest/ball winning.

Possessions 30 v 27.3
Contested Possessions 11.5 v 9.0
Player Ratings 14.02 v 15.39
Brownlow votes 1.4 v 1.4
Coaches votes 4.18 v 4.91
Groundball gets 8.8 v 7.0
Clearances 4.7 v 4.0
Contested Marks 0.3 v 0.0
Score Involvements 6.5 v 6.6
Tackles 4.5 v 3.8
Pressure Acts 22.9 v 19.0
1%ers 0.8 v 0.5

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Nothing disputed about it.

He was sweeping EVERY individual award the game has to offer, and despite missing the last 4 games, still finished in the top 3, within a bee's appendage of the winner for all of them.

Lol Daicos won no awards. But let's impute his average votes per game across the games he missed and say he wins the Brownlow and the Coaches MVP. If you are the same Fadge as that other Fadge we have seen frequenting these pages over the years, he used to say awards are too binary to be meaningful in terms of saying one player is the best due to winning them. So even if Daicos had won these awards surely you would be arguing this is too binary to be any great feather in his cap, exactly as you(or the other Fadge) argued about all of Dustin Martin's awards THAT HE DID ACTUALLY WIN.

The other Fadge would surely have preferred the less binary measuring stick of player ratings, which consider every act and every performance of every player in every match. And there were 12 AFL footballers with higher average player ratings than Nick Daicos in 2023, so it is fair to say his standing as the best player in the season is disputed, hotly.