Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[Scorpus]

He just said some things? No problem then



Not a lot of grey area in what they’ve accused him of doing

Earlier you said

There was no termination. Whatever might be true, whatever was said/not said, there was no actual abortion.

which will be held up by the defence against charges of coercion.

Saying there was no abortion is not a defense against a claim that Clarkson "told me to kill my unborn kid"

If there was no abortion, he still could have said that. In fact whether there was or wasn't an abortion is irrelevant to whether he actually said that or whether the accusers lied about him saying that

 

[Scorpus]

That would require collusion amongst the 4 families

Not necessarily. They could all have separate stories which would be tested and weighted separately in the trial

 

[jenny61_99]

Are you alleging he was kidnapped?

Things have gotten spicy

If that’s what you want to call it. What do you call it when he’s told he’ll be living with a coach from today, where he didn’t even get a chance to tell his partner (edit. sorry, they allowed him to make one phone call), where his SIM card was removed and replaced so they couldn’t contact him? What do you call that?

 

[Scorpus]

If he was physically removed and prevented from seeing his partner against his will, wouldn't that be considered Kidnapping? How does a criminal offence such as that escape the confines of a Club for this long. And why haven't Police been involved yet?

It's not hard to imagine why indigenous people may not want to involve the police on a matter like this

 

[Sanders]

Earlier you said



Saying there was no abortion is not a defense against a claim that Clarkson "told me to kill my unborn kid"

It is a defence against abuse of power and coercion. Which they have alleged in that very situation!

C’mon

If there was no abortion, he still could have said that. In fact whether there was or wasn't an abortion is irrelevant to whether he actually said that or whether the accusers lied about him saying that

That doesn’t even make sense

“You have to if you want a career here” is the allegation

“You should consider whether it’s the best thing for you right now…”

Are not the same thing, and both sides will be arguing a version of those 2 themes

One is advice, one is a threat

 

[Sanders]

If that’s what you want to call it. What do you call it when he’s told he’ll be living with a coach from today, where he didn’t even get a chance to tell his partner, where his SIM card was removed and replaced so they couldn’t contact him? What do you call that?

A crime.

 

[Geoffa32]

He’s not a bad guy, he just gets paid to play one on TV.

When he started on 5AA while still playing, before Crocmedia, he was really good.

He plays a "character" with Crocmedia.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[feenix67]

He just said some things? No problem then

Sorry what? That's the whole point - he said things and suggested things that an employer should not.

I think you've gone too far down the rabbit hole.

 

[Sanders]

It's not hard to imagine why indigenous people may not want to involve the police on a matter like this

He either was or wasn’t free to come and go as he pleased

 

[Sanders]

Sorry what? That's the whole point - he said things and suggested things that an employer should not.

I think you've gone too far down the rabbit hole.

So you don’t think it’s about coercion?

 

[jenny61_99]

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner. I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I’d be living with one of the other coaches from that night onwards."

In a state of shock and confusion, Ian phoned Amy, by then at work herself, and in a conversation that lasted only seconds, relayed information she could barely fathom.

"I just remember that he could barely get the words out and he seemed to be crying, and he quickly said that we needed to terminate the pregnancy and end the relationship," Amy says.

"Just like that. I will never forget that phone call or the heartbreak I felt in that moment. I was frozen on the spot, completely numb from what I had just heard Ian say. I had no idea what was happening.

Amy says worse was to come. With Ian's phone disconnected and his whereabouts unknown, she had to somehow stay calm for her toddler and her unborn baby and hunt down club staff she barely knew.

She says she contacted Hawthorn's player development manager, Jason Burt, and asked for a meeting with Ian to understand what was happening. Pointedly, she asked for the meeting to occur at her home so she had an opportunity to talk with Ian away from the club.

She says Hawthorn officials first asked if they could sit in the street outside while Ian met with Amy as they were concerned about Ian's wellbeing and claimed that Amy's father was a threat to Ian.

"My Dad was a well respected loving and caring Aboriginal man in the community," Amy says.

"He was not a threat to Ian at all. They had never met my Dad — they just assumed he was a threat."

It turned out the club would not be allowing her to meet Ian at all. At a cafe a week later, she says she had to make do with meeting Burt and another Hawthorn staffer, who bluntly repeated the club's stance on the relationship.

"It felt like Burt talked the entire time," Amy says.

"For the whole week Jason had repeatedly told me that Ian had made these decisions on his own, but I knew there was more to it. Burt actually confirmed my thoughts when he said Hawthorn had decided it was better for Ian's footy career if he didn't become a father. He was already a father!

"I had asked for Ian to be present at this meeting because this was about something that would affect his whole life, not just his footy career but they kept him away. I knew then that the club had something to do with Ian's phone call to me.

"They didn't care. They just wanted him to move on from his family and focus on football. Burt said that from then on, I needed to contact him with anything relating to the pregnancy. I felt so alone.

"These people had no idea who he was, who I was, what sort of family we were. They just judged us and broke us apart."

The months following were bewildering for Amy. She says she contacted Burt to advise of an important ultrasound and was reassured Ian would be there, but he never showed up. Not wanting Ian to miss out on the important stages of the pregnancy, unable to text or call him, she resorted to emailing him images of the baby.

Only at the five-month mark of the pregnancy, by which point Ian's mental health had noticeably frayed, did the club finally allow Ian's return to his family. But that too came with conditions: a move away from a suburb the club didn't approve of to one more in keeping with Hawthorn's image.

"They just bullied us into moving house and I gave in, because I felt powerless," Amy says.

"I just wanted to keep my family together and for Ian to live his dream of playing AFL footy. But it meant moving away from family support at a very stressful time. I had gestational diabetes ... we were made to move house when I was 37 weeks pregnant. It was a very stressful time and I remember thinking that I should be resting right now, not moving heavy furniture. I had my baby the following week at 38 weeks."

Three months later, Amy dug in and demanded a return to the neighbourhood where she had support.

"I was suffering with postnatal depression and felt very isolated," she says.

"I needed my family."

Even back in the "rough" suburb, there were smaller slights that still rankle. She says she was affronted when Clarkson insisted on visiting one night and offered commentary on the house's cleanliness.

Six months after the birth of their child, Ian and Amy were shocked to find they were expecting again. She explains the initial excitement she felt and says it "was quickly replaced with fear when I remembered the trauma we had just gone through bringing our previous baby into the world."

"I spoke to Ian and he became stressed immediately. Not because he wasn't a capable, beautiful father, but because we both knew what the reaction of the club would be," Amy says.

"I didn't want to lose Ian again. I needed him there with me and the kids and I didn't want to put his footy career at risk. [I felt like] Hawthorn always used that against us."
She resigned herself to a termination whose heartbreaking legacy now surrounds her in the form of pregnancy-themed artworks and textiles she has created as a means of processing her grief and guilt.

"I remember my mother taking me to the hospital and as I got out of the car she said to me: 'You don't have to do this'," Amy says.

"Before I knew it I was laying in a hospital bed waiting to be taken into the theatre room. The nurses had given me medication to soften my cervix. I remember getting up at one stage and saying to myself 'Just walk out, just leave'. I began to feel the cramps and thought to myself: 'It's too late, they have already given me medication'.

"To this day, I haven't been able to completely forgive myself. I often wonder what life would have been like if I had just listened to my mother or followed through with walking out of the hospital that day. It's a decision I have made in my life that I will always regret."

"This is a sacred thing, the bond between a mother and a child, and Hawthorn wiped their feet all over that.

"Hawthorn says it's the family club. Yet they tore ours apart."

 

[Ramify]

It's not hard to imagine why indigenous people may not want to involve the police on a matter like this

Bit of a blanket statement that.

Ok forget direcrt involvement of the Police. This gets kept under wraps by everyone, including the alleged victims and their families for this long without it being leaked to someone who would call the Cops?

That accusation(which I don't know has actually been made) is just a bit more serious than what has been described sofar.

 

[Scorpus]

It is a defence against abuse of power and coercion. Which they have alleged in that very situation!

C’mon



That doesn’t even make sense

“You have to if you want a career here” is the allegation

“You should consider whether it’s the best thing for you right now…”

Are not the same thing, and both sides will be arguing a version of those 2 themes

One is advice, one is a threat

A defamation trial won't test for that distinction, only whether what was reported in the article is true

 

[jenny61_99]

A crime.

Indeed.

 

[feenix67]

So you don’t think it’s about coercion?

Of course it is. But the immediate issue is establishing whether the allegations are truthful. At the moment, no legal case has been brought. It's an AFL investigation.

Edit: a fact I find surprising. You would think these allegations would go straight to FWA.

 

[Ramify]

A crime.

Unless there is some level if wilful compliance.

 

[Big Crow]

When he started on 5AA while still playing, before Crocmedia, he was really good.

He plays a "character" with Crocmedia.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Crocmedia absolutely despise the Crows too. Put an ex port player in a seat which requires him to be controversial, in an organisation with clear dislike for the AFC and you get the outcome we see.

It’s all scripted and actually quite boring. Just don’t tune in.

 

[Grooster24]

Can we have a separate thread for the Hawks/Clarkson/Fagan saga? I'd rather read other events rather than ongoing arguments between posters...

 

[Ramify]

Of course it is. But the immediate issue is establishing whether the allegations are truthful. At the moment, no legal case has been brought. It's an AFL investigation.

Edit: a fact I find surprising. You would think these allegations would go straight to FWA.

I know right. Amazed at the Vicgov response as a whole.

 

[Disco Fox]

Can we have a separate thread for the Hawks/Clarkson/Fagan saga? I'd rather read other events rather than ongoing arguments between posters...

For a moment I thought I was on the Hawthorn board!!

 

[arrowman]

Can we have a separate thread for the Hawks/Clarkson/Fagan saga? I'd rather read other events rather than ongoing arguments between posters...

+1. This is going to go on for months.

 

[Scorpus]

Wayne has made a thread for Hawthorn scandal discussion

Opinion - Hawthorn - Clarkson - Fagan Racism Investigation

Was thinking yesterday ....if the AFL adopt an industry wide report of all Clubs ......and similar issues are reported at other Clubs ....does that mitigate any actions that "may" be taken against the defendants ??

www.bigfooty.com

 

[cleanhands]

Worked with 'Leon' a lifetime ago. Would always roost a few for marks-up at work social sports bbqs.

Funnily enough smal feet, but perfect timing

 

[WaynesWorld19]

GWS recruiting is a sham .....fancy drafting Jarrod Brander

31

Jarrod Brander

Age

25

Ht

195cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.3

2star

D

12.3

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.3

2star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.2

2star

for the year ....the lad had to move from Perth to Syd, for what ?

I sometimes wonder how much Due Diligence these Clubs do

 

[Mutineer]

GWS recruiting is a sham .....fancy drafting Jarrod Brander for the year ....the lad had to move from Perth to Syd, for what ?

I sometimes wonder how much Due Diligence these Clubs do

View attachment 1515849

He was originally a member of the GWS Academy before getting drafted by WCE though, surely you remember the controversy that ensued over his eligibility to be drafted by GWS that was finally ruled ineligible by the AFL? It came down to was his family based in the Mildura (Vic) area or the Wentworth (NSW) area...His family had farms in both areas from memory?