Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[Sanders]

How many more shitty things do we all think Clarkson has done?

A long list I’m sure, he’s not known as cuddly even tempered type

But as a counter point, how many conversations were had by player and club staff, prior and possibly after, that the players partner is hitherto unaware of?

there’s gonna be no shortage of mud to fling if it comes to it

 

[Sanders]

Why would there be charges of coercion?

It would be a defamation/libel case with Clarkson/Fagan the plaintiff

Huh?

The whole series of allegations are centred around coercion. that’s the point

 

[WaynesWorld19]

A long list I’m sure, he’s not known as cuddly even tempered type

But as a counter point, how many conversations were had by player and club staff, prior and possibly after, that the players partner is hitherto unaware of?

there’s gonna be no shortage of mud to fling if it comes to it

How confident would HAW be, that some of these matters were not discussed in List Management meetings ....as part of the delisting process ?

 

[Scorpus]

Huh?

The whole series of allegations are centred around coercion. that’s the point

That's not what the actual civil case would be though.

Its not a test of whether Clarkson successfully coerced them, it's a test of whether the story being told is a factually accurate recount of events and whether it caused actual harm to the plaintiff.

I don't think the story at any point suggests the coercion was successful so that would be largely irrelevant in the trial

 

[Sanders]

How confident would HAW be, that some of these matters were not discussed in List Management meetings ....as part of the delisting process ?

They might have been, and if they were they might have a bit wider lens applied too.

 

[Sanders]

That's not what the actual civil case would be though.

Its not a test of whether Clarkson successfully coerced them, it's a test of whether the story being told is a factually accurate recount of events and whether it caused actual harm to the plaintiff.

I don't think the story at any point suggests the coercion was successful so that would be largely irrelevant in the trial

Huh????

If it’s not coercive then there is no wrong doing.

Have you not read the allegations?

 

[Maddogmetro]

And I’m pretty sure I know more about this than the entire forum combined

Resident expert of all things, Sanders!

 

[Scorpus]

Huh????

If it’s not coercive then there is no wrong doing.

Have you not read the allegations?

It's not a trial of whether Clarkson has done wrong! The accusers (as far as I'm aware) are not going to sue him

It's a trial of whether the accusers have done wrong by defaming Clarkson

 

[skittlebrew]

That's what Roberts-Smith thought.

Then you plead any imputation as being contextually true in defence and it brings every other shitty thing a person has ever done as being potentially relevant.

If you've done a lot of other shitty things (but not those already reported) it gives the defendant free reign to lead evidence on these matters.

How many more shitty things do we all think Clarkson has done?

Christian Porter might be a better comparison for what it's worth.

In the context of this era... a lot.

Think of Hertia Lumumba's nickname at the Pies. Politically incorrect at the time but nowadays a career death sentence for a coach if you didn't put a stop to it the second you heard someone say it.

 

[Ramify]

You know exactly what claims this assistant coach has backed up?

You think it's fair and just that Fagan and Clarkson don't have the opportunity to defend these accusations.

I can actually see a scenario where this will spill into my the legal system where their accusers will have to face them?

Defamation has already been mentioned I think. I'm not sure how you maintain innocence without filing some form of counter claim in Court.

 

[Sanders]

It's not a trial of whether Clarkson has done wrong! The accusers (as far as I'm aware) are not going to sue him

It's a trial of whether the accusers have done wrong by defaming Clarkson

And how will they have defamed him? By accusing him of things that are not true

What have they accused him of - forcing them or threatening them to do things; abusing his position & power

If they voluntarily chose to do certain things, or coercion was not applied, then Clarkson had been defamed

 

[WaynesWorld19]

 

[jenny61_99]

There was no termination. Whatever might be true, whatever was said/not said, there was no actual abortion.

which will be held up by the defence against charges of coercion. The other side will say they suffered the consequences from not having complied with the instruction

Actually that's not entirely correct. According to the player, after his partner had that baby, she quickly fell pregnant again but both felt immense pressure to terminate due to what had happened last time they'd announced she was pregnant. So while the club didn't force them, the actions of the club previously created much angst and they felt backed into a corner.

 

[Big Crow]

We know GCS is upset because of all the support, over and above, that they gave Rankine to help him settle in. No one knows what, but GC make it clear that there was a lot.

Consider this statement from Adam Simpson, and obvious what Rendell has said.

Seems like there is a lot that goes on in footy clubs that we don’t know about, and it might be the case that we are about to find out. Warts & all.

I don’t assume that this will necessarily paint clubs in a negative light, but it might be the case that circumstances are more complex than we appreciate

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This puts our preference for “good families” in the spotlight doesn’t it.

 

[Big Crow]

I know we poke fun at Kane Cornes and he can be a real ****head at times, but to run from Adelaide to Melbourne in support of kids who are struggling is a sensational effort.

He’s not a bad guy, he just gets paid to play one on TV.

 

[Sanders]

Actually that's not entirely correct. According to the player, after his partner had that baby, she quickly fell pregnant again but both felt immense pressure to terminate due to what had happened last time they'd announced she was pregnant. So while the club didn't force them, the actions of the club previously created much angst and they felt backed into a corner.

That’s not going to be an easy sell, the distance between cause and effect is quite long

Particularly if they suffered no detriment (I.e. delisting for example) from disobeying the first instruction

 

[Sanders]

This puts our preference for “good families” in the spotlight doesn’t it.

It soooooooo does

Great call

 

[Big Crow]

With Freo and Sydney announcing one, and the expectation that they will happen league-wide, I feel bad about dreading our review.

I want to believe we've been fair to all past players, but there's not a lot from the club to give me any confidence.

If past history is anything to go by, we are screwed.

 

[jenny61_99]

That’s not going to be an easy sell, the distance between cause and effect is quite long

Particularly if they suffered no detriment (I.e. delisting for example) from disobeying the first instruction

Hang on... the player was physically removed from his partner until she was 5 months pregnant. How is that not "suffering detriment"? Far out.

 

[Scorpus]

And how will they have defamed him? By accusing him of things that are not true

What have they accused him of - forcing them or threatening them to do things; abusing his position & power

If they voluntarily chose to do certain things, or coercion was not applied, then Clarkson had been defamed

No, they're only claiming Clarkson said various things, not that it was successful in all cases.

Clarkson will have been defamed if the accusers lied about what Clarkson said and those lies caused him reputational damage

 

[Ramify]

Actually that's not entirely correct. According to the player, after his partner had that baby, she quickly fell pregnant again but both felt immense pressure to terminate due to what had happened last time they'd announced she was pregnant. So while the club didn't force them, the actions of the club previously created much angst and they felt backed into a corner.

That bit there is going to come under a bit of scrutiny you would think.

Doesn't make sense to me anyway.
Buck the club in the first instance, leave it for that time frame and then buckle without any further intimidation(or was there?).

I don't understand what kind of Mother would do that,or allow that to happen.
Especially when her family were in her corner.

 

[Sanders]

Hang on... the player was physically removed from his partner until she was 5 months pregnant. How is that not "suffering detriment"? Far out.

Are you alleging he was kidnapped?

Things have gotten spicy

 

[Sanders]

No, they're only claiming Clarkson said various things, not that it was successful in all cases.

He just said some things? No problem then

Clarkson will have been defamed if the accusers lied about what Clarkson said and those lies caused him reputational damage

Not a lot of grey area in what they’ve accused him of doing

 

[WaynesWorld19]

No, they're only claiming Clarkson said various things, not that it was successful in all cases.

Clarkson will have been defamed if the accusers lied about what Clarkson said and those lies caused him reputational damage

That would require collusion amongst the 4 families

*** it's gone from 3 families to 4, in the last 24 hours .....mistake ?

 

[Ramify]

Hang on... the player was physically removed from his partner until she was 5 months pregnant. How is that not "suffering detriment"? Far out.

If he was physically removed and prevented from seeing his partner against his will, wouldn't that be considered Kidnapping? How does a criminal offence such as that escape the confines of a Club for this long. And why haven't Police been involved yet?