Non-Lions discussion 2023

[Tom14]

Cherny from codesports posted this incident from the under 18s this year which was very similar - player got off after initially being charged:



My reaction is that I'm surprised this one got cleared because it looks worse than last night.

 

[dlanod]

Absolutely. He should get 2 weeks minimum. He had a duty of care to Brayshaw. He could have put his arms in front of himself to push off or cushion the contact, instead he chose to turn it into a bump. No problems that Maynard was trying to smother, because that was a football act…but what followed was careless, quite cowardly, and led to a player being knocked out and stretchered off.

This is what I was thinking after watching it live last night, but rewatching the footage I don't know that Maynard actually did much - he leapt, pulled his arms down after the smother attempt failed (as everyone does), and then turned marginally. IMO he didn't brace anywhere as much as I had thought, and he didn't tuck his arm right in like going for a bump.

The real issue is that Maynard's shoulder got Brayshaw in the head. He definitely turned a touch that resulted in the shoulder being the first point of contact, but he also had momentum affecting him. Did he deliberately lead with the shoulder? It's a hard argument to make.

 

[RU_]

Personally think there’s nothing in this incident.

 

[knaf]

I just don't know how jumping in the air to smother is a football act. It would have made more sense for him to dive forward on the ground to close the distance in that case.

Personally I do feel if you leave the ground in a non marking contest, and you make contact with the head. It's going to be a suspension.

This to me is the central point. Once he left the ground, it became a charge at the opposition player. He was going to collide with Brayshaw. He wears the consequence. ( unless of course the media runs a good bloke argument in his defence).

 

[braddsey]

Absolutely. He should get 2 weeks minimum. He had a duty of care to Brayshaw. He could have put his arms in front of himself to push off or cushion the contact, instead he chose to turn it into a bump. No problems that Maynard was trying to smother, because that was a football act…but what followed was careless, quite cowardly, and led to a player being knocked out and stretchered off.

After just rewatching it now, i’m totally aligned on this. There was no malice in it, but in today’s footy the “duty of care” is what it’s about. An action that results in a 90kg+ guys shoulder hitting you square in the face is a failure of duty of care.
It is not the same as a marking contest where multiple players jumping from all directions. The outcome of Maynard’s action could be predicted.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Thoroughly unimpressed with either side after that game. Melbourne's bog average forward line is genuinely costing them a dynasty. They had plenty of ball but the dump kicks inside I50 remind of their game style in 2019. The delivery isn't doing their forwards any favours but they've got Fritsch and Kozzie and that's about it for forward weapons, albiet Petracca also seems to have a keen goal sense whenever we play them.

Generally, I thought Collingwood looked far more dangerous with the ball in hand, especially when they were able to pull off the short 45 kick into the corridor. Melbourne were far too slow off turnover to be able to capitalise effectively. The weather obviously played a big role in the game being a slog.

Both were ordinary IMO Pies more so. Melbourne were dangerous in the middle but yes the forward line is shite. Is Daicos the difference between ordinary team and flag worthy team? We will find out.

 

[bungalow_bill]

If I was Melbourne: Lynch is a mercenary, I'd be throwing the kitchen, the sink, even the outhouse at Richmond to get him over.

Melbourne easily beat the Pies last night with Lynch. Or even cry baby Petty for that matter

 

[Dalions]

After just rewatching it now, i’m totally aligned on this. There was no malice in it, but in today’s footy the “duty of care” is what it’s about. An action that results in a 90kg+ guys shoulder hitting you square in the face is a failure of duty of care.
It is not the same as a marking contest where multiple players jumping from all directions. The outcome of Maynard’s action could be predicted.

Although in marking contests if you are a tad late and brace for contact and get them high you will get suspended.
Same in the Patrick Cripps one last year he was a tad late missed the ball, braced and got AhChee high and got 2 weeks which should have stood all bar some political bullshit.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I just don't know how jumping in the air to smother is a football act. It would have made more sense for him to dive forward on the ground to close the distance in that case.

Personally I do feel if you leave the ground in a non marking contest, and you make contact with the head. It's going to be a suspension.

Imagine if it were Toby who did this to Pendelbury?

Not sure he meant to KO him but there was malicious intent IMO. Brayshaw was a key player and he was targeted.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Melbourne easily beat the Pies last night with Lynch. Or even cry baby Petty for that matter

Heck, I reckon they beat them with Melksham last night.

 

[Dalions]

Brayshaw was a key player and he was targeted.

This is going a bit too far.
His initial attempt to spoil was most certainly a football act but the subsequent brace was not.
He did jump towards Brayshaw not just straight up in the air meaning he was never going anywhere else but into Brayshaw.
But to say he targeted him is a bit much.

 

[Gadzorks]

This is going a bit too far.
His initial attempt to spoil was most certainly a football act but the subsequent brace was not.
He did jump towards Brayshaw not just straight up in the air meaning he was never going anywhere else but into Brayshaw.
But to say he targeted him is a bit much.

Charging head on and directly at someone, even for a smoother, was always going to result in a collision.

Careless.

 

[Elixuh]

lol

 

[bungalow_bill]

Still more confident we could take care of Collingwood rather than Melbourne.

Agreed but both are rather ordinary. And the Pies are our bunnies. For me Port GWS and the Blues are more formidable opponents.

 

[rye]

weather is atrocious in melbourne today, expecting another low scoring slog between two teams that try to play paul roos football this evening

 

[Elixuh]

weather is atrocious in melbourne today, expecting another low scoring slog between two teams that try to play paul roos football this evening

This plays into Sydney's hands, if McKay and Curnow are effectively nullified.

 

[Dalions]

Charging head on and directly at someone, even for a smoother, was always going to result in a collision.

Careless.

Definitely careless I agree.

 

[mpal6]

Heck, I reckon they beat them with Melksham last night.

Yep, Melbourne's biggest loss for this finals series.
He was having a career best season and playing his role to perfection.

 

[Thomasno]

Crikey.

They've finished clearly on top of the ladder, won tonight and have their best player to come back.

People seem to just see what they want to see.

They were lucky Melbourne were very poor in their execution but who's to say they won't be better either.

Both of these teams will be very strong opposition whoever they play

We demolished Collingwood at the start of the year with said “best player” included, and that was when he was in red hot form and not the trailed off form he’s had in the lead up to his injury. Remember he’s still not run for like 4 weeks now, I don’t think he’ll be as big of a factor as the media is making it out to be.

Fact is we’ve just figured out a way to nullify collingwood’s strategy and bring it back to 1on1s, Melbourne did none of that and looked absolutely woeful - and they still nearly got over the line. Pies are a great team don’t get me wrong, but they are far from unbeatable.

 

[Sanchez365]

I wouldn't go as far to say Maynard targeted Brayshaws, tbh I wouldn't even call it an intentional attempt to line someone up (unlike Cripps last year).

But if you leave the ground to make a play on the ball that isn't a marking contest, you bear the result of the outcome.

If you can't stand your ground to protect yourself like Mitch Robbo did a few years ago, but you run straight at an opponent, jump in the air and effectively hip and shoulder them in the face and not face any consequences, well I don't know what to say.

Obviously I think with vic bias he gets off which will be a mega sigh.

 

[Thomasno]

The thing that annoys me the most is that you can see behind the deals being done to get this thug off because there are enough Collingwood apologists in the media that won’t flinch when he’s not cited because Christian will say it’s a football act which you can certainly make the case. It’s clear as day Maynard turned into Brayshaw to make him earn it. I don’t think he meant to KO him either but he did and he should suffer the consequences.

I’m hopeful it will go the other way. Remember Cripps tried the “it was a football act” thing last year, in a very similar situation, and still got weeks - his suspension was overturned on a bullshit technicality, not because the punishment was undeserving. Given Brayshaw is a universally liked player that had to be stretchered off, I’d say they throw the book at Maynard.

Which I don’t mind because he’s a dickhead

 

[braddsey]

Although in marking contests if you are a tad late and brace for contact and get them high you will get suspended.
Same in the Patrick Cripps one last year he was a tad late missed the ball, braced and got AhChee high and got 2 weeks which should have stood all bar some political bullshit.

Absolutely - and this is the duty of care in a marking contest. The player needs to recognise they’re late to the contest and take a different action to protect the opposition player.

 

[Tom14]

We demolished Collingwood at the start of the year with said “best player” included, and that was when he was in red hot form and not the trailed off form he’s had in the lead up to his injury. Remember he’s still not run for like 4 weeks now, I don’t think he’ll be as big of a factor as the media is making it out to be.

Fact is we’ve just figured out a way to nullify collingwood’s strategy and bring it back to 1on1s, Melbourne did none of that and looked absolutely woeful - and they still nearly got over the line. Pies are a great team don’t get me wrong, but they are far from unbeatable.

They'll be a very tough out at the MCG though.

Stylistically they are just a much better matchup for us though. Daicos excepted none of their mids are quick, they don't have a key forward that bothers Harris (Mihocek good and plays well against us but he's not a lynch type who harris has to sacrifice his game to play on), and our forwards relish the space you can get against the collingwood backline. They also won't flood heaps of numbers back or chip it sideways to frustrate us, or change their game to tag Neale either.

We'd never beat collingwood 65-45 but we've scored 116 and 124 against them in two games this year. They'd definitely have chances to score against us but I prefer that game to one where we get strangled.

 

[Thomasno]

I find it bizarre people think Maynard has much of a choice there other than to brace for contact. He is mid air... these guys aren't robots, nor do they have wings to magically change direction mid air.

Think you guys are being really harsh. But will have to agree to disagree.

Knowing the AFL's track record he'll get 3 weeks and I'll have egg on my face. Won't change my mind but.

Thing for me is that even in the Cripps incident last year, he “braced” by turning his body away from Ah Chee; which does seem like a natural protective instinct.

Maynard doesn’t do that at all, he drops his shoulder and almost folds in TOWARDS Brayshaw, in a “contest” where he had no chance really to impact the ball. If Cripps deserved to be suspended, this incident is worse.

 

[Section 5]

I don't believe there is anything in the MRO guidelines that says anything about "a football act"

That's something the media run with and so will the lawyers.
The lawyer needs to state a case so will go with whatever they can argue.

For arguments sake what is a football act if that is argued. Could be anything once on the ground really.
Bumping, kneeing, fend off, tackle, punching, front on contact. jumping, sliding etc.
If doing any of the above and you hit someone high/groin and the impact is classed as high/severe players should expect to miss a game or two.

Gill closed the loophole that Crisp lawyers used.
I don't think the AFL will be happy unless it is 2 weeks. That way it may get argued down to 1 week.
The AFL is very keen to reduce concussion issues in the game.
Hopefully Brayshaw is okay but i believe this is his 5th or 6th concussion.
More important is his health in the future.

Adams and other players and their lawyers will be watching carefully now and in the future.
You can throw in the AFL's Insurance Companys interest too.