North Melbourne Priority Pick 2021

[ferball]

We all have stated he's a great young player. The facts are he has approximately 1 defender who averages more touches than him, but 16 or so who average more meters per game (depending on who you define as a defender).

Its part of being crap and not having great targets through midfield up forward, that North go sideways a bit, and their haflback stats rack up a bit as a result. Ziebull was the king of this, not just counting the extra kick ins.

Ziebell and Sheezel use the ball in very different ways. We love Jack but he nothing like the vision and footy IQ Sheezel has.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Lots of people say half back flankers have inflated stats generally. They often say those stats are illegitimate of call them seagulls.

Recently Sheezel had three or four possessions in a chain. He received or won the ball on the backline gave off at least two handballs and then kicked the ball to a forwards advantage inside 50. Can't remember if it lead to a goal or not. Alot of people would call that chip scab effort but he basically ran thru traffic all the way up the middle of the ground and created a scoring opportunity out of nothing. the sort of thing Daicos gets plaudits for too.

I don't understand why people disparage efforts like that, whoever the player. It opens the game right up, creates space and in that example created a scoring opportunity out of nothing. Sure there are players who do this and it gains nothing. the ball moves around the backline and does little else, but another player of ours, who cops alot of crap from our supporters - Aaron hall - also did the same thing and got very little credit for the way his play opened up the play and enabled us to break out of the oppositions half.

People say the same thing about other players on other sides when they do similar stuff.

But yeah we get the ball in our backline alot. No denying that.

was this against the essendon mob? coz that shit don't count

 

[ferball]

Which guys of the quality of lynch, may, prestia, rankine, jom, Dixon and a dozen others did you lose recently?

By the end of this season it could be Horne-Francis, Mackay and Thomas over two seasons. But i really hope its just the first two and it does look like TT is all in and staying and building something at North. But i wouldn't expect pick one, multiple picks at the end of first/start of second round and a whole bunch of other stuff. Honestly, i'd probably prefer McKay stay as well. but I do understand some of the criticism he cops from North supporters and on here.

He regularly makes gorilla forwards look average, can work with mobile forwards too but the real question on him is his footy IQ.

I dunno about others but the reason i bring the GC academy is that I think its rubbish to criticise the chance of us getting Sanders on the basis of distorting the draft when GC actually warp the draft the way a black hole warps spacetime.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

GC will be alright long term now thanks to the academy giving them a solid base of home grown players that won't be as easy to pry out of there.

 

[tazaa]

Not sure if you remember but Brad Scott got the absolute most out of his battler list and probably overachieved a few too many years which didn't allow them to get the youth in that they desperately needed. Every opposition supporter could see the pain ahead but North supporters thought they were fine.

The issue is in the years before GC and GWS entered the competition we didnt have any top end talent.
Through all the compromised draft periods, 2009 is the only year we dipped and the rest we were mid table.

The issue is even after the compromised drafts finished we were going all out for a flag and probably lacked 1 or 2 A-Graders.

Then it all imploded in 2016. The list probably could have played off in a grand final upon reflection but Scott's stubbornness and the way he treated his players meant we never finished top 4. And it cost him and the club.

 

[Caligo]

By the end of this season it could be Horne-Francis, Mackay and Thomas over two seasons. But i really hope its just the first two and it does look like TT is all in and staying and building something at North. But i wouldn't expect pick one, multiple picks at the end of first/start of second round and a whole bunch of other stuff. Honestly, i'd probably prefer McKay stay as well. but I do understand some of the criticism he cops from North supporters and on here.

He regularly makes gorilla forwards look average, can work with mobile forwards too but the real question on him is his footy IQ.

I dunno about others but the reason i bring the GC academy is that I think its rubbish to criticise the chance of us getting Sanders on the basis of distorting the draft when GC actually warp the draft the way a black hole warps spacetime.

If you lose Thomas and McKay to go with JHF you won't even be 1/3 the way to the way GC was pillaged. But you will at least be in the Brisbane level conversation. Pick 18 was their package.

You could have had a northern academy any time you wanted by the way. When you were planning on the Canberra move you would have gotten all the GC stuff plus more.

That was your choice not to take it.

I haven't once mentioned distorting the draft by the way.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

If you lose Thomas and McKay to go with JHF you won't even be 1/3 the way to the way GC was pillaged. But you will at least be in the Brisbane level conversation. Pick 18 was their package.

You could have had a northern academy any time you wanted by the way. When you were planning on the Canberra move you would have gotten all the GC stuff plus more.

That was your choice not to take it.

I haven't once mentioned distorting the draft by the way.

Canberra move?

 

[Mat Mann]

The issue is in the years before GC and GWS entered the competition we didnt have any top end talent.
Through all the compromised draft periods, 2009 is the only year we dipped and the rest we were mid table.

The issue is even after the compromised drafts finished we were going all out for a flag and probably lacked 1 or 2 A-Graders.

Then it all imploded in 2016. The list probably could have played off in a grand final upon reflection but Scott's stubbornness and the way he treated his players meant we never finished top 4. And it cost him and the club.

So you do what the Saints did, make the best of what you had, draft and recruit your ass off, we've turned over the list 3 times since 2012, you guys just threw in the towel now expect the AFL to bail you out

 

[big_e]

Which guys of the quality of lynch, may, prestia, rankine, jom, Dixon and a dozen others did you lose recently?

So Gold Coast losing Izak Rankine in 2022 was part of the reason they got priority picks in 2019?

Some of those guys had left years earlier, too. Not to mention you've left out the blokes they brought in during that period.

 

[ferball]

If you lose Thomas and McKay to go with JHF you won't even be 1/3 the way to the way GC was pillaged. But you will at least be in the Brisbane level conversation. Pick 18 was their package.

You could have had a northern academy any time you wanted by the way. When you were planning on the Canberra move you would have gotten all the GC stuff plus more.

That was your choice not to take it.

I haven't once mentioned distorting the draft by the way.

Re the bolded - no you haven't but other people have and unless you end up in the sort of dialogue we've just developed these conversations seem to merge.

We wouldn't have had a northern academy any time we wanted. That would have been the end of us and the beginning of something else.

Sydney isn't South Melbourne and Brisbane isn't Fitzroy. If we moved we wouldn't be North Melbourne any more.

I don't know if I'd even use the term "we" to refer to that club/team/franchise. I dunno if I'd identify with it or give a shit about how it performed. i probably wouldn't follow AFL any more given how badly the game is run these days. Local footy sure but not the AFL comp.

If we lose those three players then we've lost two players who have the potential to win major awards - Brownlows, Norm Smiths and possibly Grand Finals off their own boot. One of the reason have so much anger over Port stealing judas is because of his potential. I hope we do everything in our power to keep thomas and he stays as engaged with the club as he seems now.

So anyway ... I don't expect we'd get multiple years of second round priority picks or even pick 2/3 as a PP, a huge extra list and the ability to pre list anyone from our academy. This year that would be four players, two of them top ten picks most likely. I don't expect we'll get anything to be completely honest and part of me hopes that the case cos we will come good and then when we win a flag (or more) the contrarian prick in me will have the satisfaction of thinking (and posting most likely) "Thanks for nothing and **** you cos we did it anyway."

But winning a flag with some assistance won't make it any less sweet I guess.

 

[tazaa]

So you do what the Saints did, make the best of what you had, draft and recruit your ass off, we've turned over the list 3 times since 2012, you guys just threw in the towel now expect the AFL to bail you out

ffs
-Clarko got caught up in the Hawthorn racism saga and took time away from the club which North got caught out on and set us back a year in development. Kennett is a campaigner and the fact he got off without any baggage for what went down with the hiring of Egan and the way he treated the Rioli's is bullshit
-The one player we got with the assistance package last year (Logue) did his knee and is now out for 12 months
-Our first ever number 1 draft pick walked out on the club after spending 8 months here
-Our best midfielder and leader of the club in Ben Cunnington was diagnosed with testicular cancer not once but twice in 2021 when he was at the peak of his powers
-Our senior coach in 2020 Rhyce Shaw had underlying mental health issues undisclosed (and rightly so) to the club and walked away from the job 12 months in

We're not asking for assistance for no bloody reason mate. Even so, what were asking is to pre-list one kid in our academy. Thats it.
The fact this gets overlooked time and time again as if were committing daylight robbery is amazing. But please tell me again that McKay isnt worth pick 2 when its the AFL own ******* rules that determines compensation.

 

[Caligo]

Re the bolded - no you haven't but other people have and unless you end up in the sort of dialogue we've just developed these conversations seem to merge.

We wouldn't have had a northern academy any time we wanted. That would have been the end of us and the beginning of something else.

Sydney isn't South Melbourne and Brisbane isn't Fitzroy. If we moved we wouldn't be North Melbourne any more.

I don't know if I'd even use the term "we" to refer to that club/team/franchise. I dunno if I'd identify with it or give a s**t about how it performed. i probably wouldn't follow AFL any more given how badly the game is run these days. Local footy sure but not the AFL comp.

If we lose those three players then we've lost two players who have the potential to win major awards - Brownlows, Norm Smiths and possibly Grand Finals off their own boot. One of the reason have so much anger over Port stealing judas is because of his potential. I hope we do everything in our power to keep thomas and he stays as engaged with the club as he seems now.

So anyway ... I don't expect we'd get multiple years of second round priority picks or even pick 2/3 as a PP, a huge extra list and the ability to pre list anyone from our academy. This year that would be four players, two of them top ten picks most likely. I don't expect we'll get anything to be completely honest and part of me hopes that the case cos we will come good and then when we win a flag (or more) the contrarian prick in me will have the satisfaction of thinking (and posting most likely) "Thanks for nothing and * you cos we did it anyway."

But winning a flag with some assistance won't make it any less sweet I guess.

You lost 1 guy with potential to maybe be great one day. GC lost a truly great key forward and a truly great key back in consecutive years. These were two guys who straight up led their teams to flags. Losing JHF is more comparable to losing JOM, another pick 1 with huge potential who hadn't proven much when he was taken.

But on the JHF thing, I think PA were in his ear from long before he was even drafted, and there should have been consequences for that. But that isn't this conversation obviously...

 

[bird_man]

They are less likely to get anything too outrageous now that they likely have pick 1.

An end of first for McKay and then an another end of first as a priority pick would give them a fantastic hand going into the draft.

 

[L_W_P]

ffs
-Clarko got caught up in the Hawthorn racism saga and took time away from the club which North got caught out on and set us back a year in development. Kennett is a campaigner and the fact he got off without any baggage for what went down with the hiring of Egan and the way he treated the Rioli's is bullshit
-The one player we got with the assistance package last year (Logue) did his knee and is now out for 12 months
-Our first ever number 1 draft pick walked out on the club after spending 8 months here
-Our best midfielder and leader of the club in Ben Cunnington was diagnosed with testicular cancer not once but twice in 2021 when he was at the peak of his powers
-Our senior coach in 2020 Rhyce Shaw had underlying mental health issues undisclosed (and rightly so) to the club and walked away from the job 12 months in

We're not asking for assistance for no bloody reason mate. Even so, what were asking is to pre-list one kid in our academy. Thats it.
The fact this gets overlooked time and time again as if were committing daylight robbery is amazing. But please tell me again that McKay isnt worth pick 2 when its the AFL own **** rules that determines compensation.

Saints lost -

Pick #1 McCartin to years of concussion issues.
Pick #8 Nick Coffield hasn't played in 2 years because of injury.
27yo mid Koby Stevens to concussion issues.
AA Squad member Dylan Roberton to a heart defect.
Max King missed a whole year of development with a knee injury and then most of this year with shoulder issues.

Even this year, our head of conditioning quit during the season, leading to a full reset of the fitness program that likely caused our mid season slump.

The point is: EVERY team has issues. EVERY team cops injuries and loses players at inopportune times.

That North will end up with a 3rd #1 pick while also asking for the AFL to bump up the McKay compo and give them free access to another top 10 player is what rubs people the wrong way.

More kids isn't the answer. Fix the development and culture of the club.

North should be asking for extra room in the soft cap to bring in better staff and maximise the plethora of talent they already have.

 

[Old navy]

Think now North get Reid, the AFL won’t be willing to hand out premium picks, like pick 2 and 3.
They’ve already had other draft assistance over the last two years, if Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

goes he wont be netting them band 1, it will most likely be end of first round band 2 compensation, but I do think the AFL might gift them Saunders
Add Reid, Saunders and pick 19
to the impressive stable of young talent they already have accumulated and that’s more then enough high end young talent to build a good list around.

 

[Rob R]

I am increasingly confident that one of Carlton, Sydney, Essendon or Port will take Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

at a contract large enough to automatically trigger the entitled band 1 compensation. We won't 'need' any AFL cooking to take it from band 2 to band 1.

As it stands today, with the information we have on hand, it certainly appears that separate from any priority pick/draft assistance, North are going to get Pick 1 and Pick 2 in the 2023 draft.

Because of that, any notion of a top of first round 'priority pick' are certainly out the window.

I suspect the draft assistance provided by the AFL this year will be the allocation of Ryley Sanders to NMFC at the equivalent of Pick 6 in the draft (for contract/salary purposes).

Do any of those clubs have the cap space or level of stupidity to pay McKay that much? He is firmly in the B3, B2 if lucky range.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mat Mann]

ffs
-Clarko got caught up in the Hawthorn racism saga and took time away from the club which North got caught out on and set us back a year in development. Kennett is a campaigner and the fact he got off without any baggage for what went down with the hiring of Egan and the way he treated the Rioli's is bullshit
-The one player we got with the assistance package last year (Logue) did his knee and is now out for 12 months
-Our first ever number 1 draft pick walked out on the club after spending 8 months here
-Our best midfielder and leader of the club in Ben Cunnington was diagnosed with testicular cancer not once but twice in 2021 when he was at the peak of his powers
-Our senior coach in 2020 Rhyce Shaw had underlying mental health issues undisclosed (and rightly so) to the club and walked away from the job 12 months in

We're not asking for assistance for no bloody reason mate. Even so, what were asking is to pre-list one kid in our academy. Thats it.
The fact this gets overlooked time and time again as if were committing daylight robbery is amazing. But please tell me again that McKay isnt worth pick 2 when its the AFL own **** rules that determines compensation.

and we lost our best midfielder in Jack Steven
and our no.1 pick (Paddy McCartin)
Cripps (our 1st pick 2010) ran back to WA and we got sfa for him
and 5 players due to concussion
Roberton to Heart issues
we had Watters/Richardson/Ratten

So Melb ( Mac Andrew) and Us ( Cam Mckenzie) miss out on NGA kids but you want special access to a kid not even in your NGA program
I never raised the McKay compo because that is separate to the compensation.

you already have a heap of 1st round picks, what you need is experience, leadership and mature bodies.

Id argue a range of picks for trading, maybe extra cap space to allow signing bonuses and off-field assistance is far more important than another 18yo

edit: doh!!! sandra'd

 

[Rob R]

Think now North get Reid, the AFL won’t be willing to hand out premium picks, like pick 2 and 3.
They’ve already had other draft assistance over the last two years, if Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

goes he wont be netting them band 1, it will most likely be end of first round band 2 compensation, but I do think the AFL might gift them Saunders
Add Reid, Saunders and pick 19
to the impressive stable of young talent they already have accumulated and that’s more then enough high end young talent to build a good list around.

Except that in North's desperation for more picks they will have wasted more picks on their strength (mids) and further weakened their key position strengths guaranteeing they will be back whining for more help next year.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Surely north try and split pick 1 for a couple of high picks?

 

[HairyO]

They are less likely to get anything too outrageous now that they likely have pick 1.

An end of first for McKay and then an another end of first as a priority pick would give them a fantastic hand going into the draft.

Pick 1, 19, 20 and 21 gives plenty of trade options given GCS wont want to keep pick 4.

 

[Chadwiko]

Surely north try and split pick 1 for a couple of high picks?

No.

It's not 'quantity' we need now. It's top-level quality.

With Pick 1, probably pick 2, probably Ryley Sanders, and also with Ports pick (14-16~ most likely), we are already going to have to deal with the challenges of list spots/cap space for 4 first rounders. Splitting makes no sense given our position.

 

[boncer34]

No.

It's not 'quantity' we need now. It's top-level quality.

With Pick 1, probably pick 2, probably Ryley Sanders, and also with Ports pick (14-16~ most likely), we are already going to have to deal with the challenges of list spots/cap space for 4 first rounders. Splitting makes no sense given our position.

If your list is in such great shape you'll find it a challenge to open up 4 spots then I don't see why a priority pick is needed. Having depth down to player 38-ish on the list is a great sign.

 

[tazaa]

Saints lost -

Pick #1 McCartin to years of concussion issues.
Pick #8 Nick Coffield hasn't played in 2 years because of injury.
27yo mid Koby Stevens to concussion issues.
AA Squad member Dylan Roberton to a heart defect.
Max King missed a whole year of development with a knee injury and then most of this year with shoulder issues.

Even this year, our head of conditioning quit during the season, leading to a full reset of the fitness program that likely caused our mid season slump.

The point is: EVERY team has issues. EVERY team cops injuries and loses players at inopportune times.

That North will end up with a 3rd #1 pick while also asking for the AFL to bump up the McKay compo and give them free access to another top 10 player is what rubs people the wrong way.

More kids isn't the answer. Fix the development and culture of the club.

North should be asking for extra room in the soft cap to bring in better staff and maximise the plethora of talent they already have.

and we lost our best midfielder in Jack Steven
and our no.1 pick (Paddy McCartin)
Cripps (our 1st pick 2010) ran back to WA and we got sfa for him
and 5 players due to concussion
Roberton to Heart issues
we had Watters/Richardson/Ratten

So Melb ( Mac Andrew) and Us ( Cam Mckenzie) miss out on NGA kids but you want special access to a kid not even in your NGA program
I never raised the McKay compo because that is separate to the compensation.

you already have a heap of 1st round picks, what you need is experience, leadership and mature bodies.

Id argue a range of picks for trading, maybe extra cap space to allow signing bonuses and off-field assistance is far more important than another 18yo

edit: doh!!! sandra'd

That's unfortunate for St Kilda. What does this have to do with North? No one asked about your issues lol


All North is asking for is to take a kid in our academy as a protected pick.

 

[Mat Mann]

That's unfortunate for St Kilda. What does this have to do with North? No one asked about your issues lol


All North is asking for is to take a kid in our academy as a protected pick.

not even in your academy lol

 

[ferball]

Saints lost -

Pick #1 McCartin to years of concussion issues.
Pick #8 Nick Coffield hasn't played in 2 years because of injury.
27yo mid Koby Stevens to concussion issues.
AA Squad member Dylan Roberton to a heart defect.
Max King missed a whole year of development with a knee injury and then most of this year with shoulder issues.

Even this year, our head of conditioning quit during the season, leading to a full reset of the fitness program that likely caused our mid season slump.

The point is: EVERY team has issues. EVERY team cops injuries and loses players at inopportune times.

That North will end up with a 3rd #1 pick while also asking for the AFL to bump up the McKay compo and give them free access to another top 10 player is what rubs people the wrong way.

More kids isn't the answer. Fix the development and culture of the club.

North should be asking for extra room in the soft cap to bring in better staff and maximise the plethora of talent they already have.

You mean like we did this year and last year?