Coach North under Alastair Clarkson

[Farang83150]

Hawks fans have been told for the last 3+ years that North have a better list than ours.

Same

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Proof that draft picks aren't everything. We need veteran leaders that actually contribute and not hinder the young blokes.

Reckon clarkson forgot this, drank his own bathwater so to speak.
He had Dixon, smith, vandenberg, Crawford, and to a lesser extent everitt when he started. Yes, talented kids, but it was the older ones from 2005-2007 that helped the young kids develop.

I have not been a fan of gunston for a few years (he's old, slow, and looks past it), but today he was a major reason for us having a good forward set up. He was directing traffic and in turn it drastically helped the midfield deliver the ball and get good looks too

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Reckon clarkson forgot this, drank his own bathwater so to speak.
He had Dixon, smith, vandenberg, Crawford, and to a lesser extent everitt when he started. Yes, talented kids, but it was the older ones from 2005-2007 that helped the young kids develop.

I have not been a fan of gunston for a few years (he's old, slow, and looks past it), but today he was a major reason for us having a good forward set up. He was directing traffic and in turn it drastically helped the midfield deliver the ball and get good looks too

Bang on.

Clarko is cut from the same cloth as Belichick. It's no wonder he idolizes him.

A legend, but has gotten to the point where he believes a lot of his own bulls**t in terms of being able to turn water into wine.

Was clear in the latter days at the Hawks too. Set the club back years.

 

[Proper Gander]

Clarko and North are nowhere near the point of judgement. He’s not been there nearly long enough, and will need some years to be a part of the ongoing list-turnover to get the team he can work with.

After that, if it doesn’t work he gets judged like anyone else. But he is way too new to the scene

 

[harper2bastinac]

The truth is he isn’t the one who deserves the pressure, this club has blamed the last 3 coaches and haven’t learnt a thing

 

[HawthornHawk]

North aren't showing any progress though, and it's a concern because people expected them to improve this year given the amount of high draft picks they have on their list.

It was to be expected though, they got even younger this year, and let a gun kpd leave because they knew they'd get a high pick for him.

Even if they just had Reid and Mckay things would be looking much better for them this season.

 

[theiaofseed]

Clarko and North are nowhere near the point of judgement. He’s not been there nearly long enough, and will need some years to be a part of the ongoing list-turnover to get the team he can work with.

After that, if it doesn’t work he gets judged like anyone else. But he is way too new to the scene

Noble was sacked after 2 years with less talent on the list, Clarkson is in his 19th year as an AFL coach and has taken North where exactly? 1 win in their last 27 games.

 

[projectv]

Noble was sacked after 2 years with less talent on the list, Clarkson is in his 19th year as an AFL coach and has taken North where exactly? 1 win in their last 27 games.

1 out of 27, when that 1 cost you Harley Reid. What a record indeed.

 

[Stottzy]

Reckon clarkson forgot this, drank his own bathwater so to speak.
He had Dixon, smith, vandenberg, Crawford, and to a lesser extent everitt when he started. Yes, talented kids, but it was the older ones from 2005-2007 that helped the young kids develop.

I have not been a fan of gunston for a few years (he's old, slow, and looks past it), but today he was a major reason for us having a good forward set up. He was directing traffic and in turn it drastically helped the midfield deliver the ball and get good looks too

He also had inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Bateman, Ladson, Williams, Osborne, Campbell, Sewell who had done their apprenticeship years under Schwab, plus Trent Croad who had returned to the club the year before. Not saying he didn't have a hand in enhancing some of these careers, but there was a pretty good foundation to work with before he started.

 

[Ichiro #51]

The smugness of hawks supporters seemingly knows no bounds. Just absolutely gorging on their own farts bagging the bloke who gave them the fuel to feed their ridiculous outsized egos. The world’s greatest ****wits.

 

[SSSSSS]

The “master coach” is now 0-3 against his apprentice, while getting paid twice as much.

Much more than twice. I don't think Sammy is on anywhere near 800k a year.

It's probably closer to 4x than it is 2x.

 

[LordLucifer]

Time to ship them off to Canberra permanently so the AFL can justify giving them some draft assistance to get them into a position of dominance.

The move ticks so many boxes it's silly to ignore it especially given they are going to be woeful for at last another 3-4 years whilst they remain in Melbourne.

 

[Spud11]

He also had inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Bateman, Ladson, Williams, Osborne, Campbell, Sewell who had done their apprenticeship years under Schwab, plus Trent Croad who had returned to the club the year before. Not saying he didn't have a hand in enhancing some of these careers, but their was a pretty good foundation to work with before he started.

I really rated Schwab fwiw

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

To be fair to Clarkson his team is mostly kids, and I don’t think his backline is even vfl standard apart from the obvious players such as sheezel. I rarely watch their games though they are always stinkers.

 

[hilly]

The list management has been atrocious IMO

Putting it lightly!

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hilly]

Time to ship them off to Canberra permanently so the AFL can justify giving them some draft assistance to get them into a position of dominance.

The move ticks so many boxes it's silly to ignore it especially given they are going to be woeful for at last another 3-4 years whilst they remain in Melbourne.

Carlton fans drooling about this. Bit weird.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The smugness of hawks supporters seemingly knows no bounds. Just absolutely gorging on their own farts bagging the bloke who gave them the fuel to feed their ridiculous outsized egos. The world’s greatest *******s.

Clarko will always be a Hawthorn legend to the majority of Hawthorn members and fans, but it can’t be ignored what happened in the last few years of his reign with us, and then the fact that he burnt a lot of bridges with Hawks fans on the way out the way that he leaked all of the goings on with the suppose handover to Caro via his manager in order to scuttle the succession plan and get paid out.

 

[HTPunter]

We are currently as bad as we have been in the past 5 years.

That is saying A LOT.

Never has a team been so incompetent and uncompetitive defensively. And I am sick of young individuals getting blamed - it is just a complete lack of team defence. They’ve all lost one on ones at times but honestly I’m prepared to say Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

25

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

would get a bag kicked on him at North right now.

I don’t think any coach could do a hell of a lot better, our list is awful and mismanaged; so many eggs in the midfielders as high draft picks basket.

However I do think Clarkson has Malthouse @ Carlton written all over him. A challenge insurmountable for their age & fatigue.
And I do think he is ignoring some obvious issues - Sheezel wasted in defence, but then our best key back prospect gets moved at half time to the forward/ruck, dropping Greenwood & Shiels when we clearly have too many kids on the field to be competitive (some of them will be better learning at VFL, poor Sellars has had 8 weeks on a list & then gets put key forward in this side - how’s that for his confidence?). He finally dropped Stephenson after a month but Stephens is just as soft & uncompetitive, you can’t have players like that at AFL level. Tucker & Fisher aren’t much better but can’t drop everyone.

 

[HTPunter]

Same

In fairness, both your sides have much better senior quality (well, Hawthorn did until some trade periods) while I assume North fans you’ve argued with have been talking youth quality.

Yeo, McGovern are both clearly 1 & 2 at North whilst fit. We just all assumed they’d never get fit again.

Norths top 10 aged players: Shiels, Greenwood, Corr, McDonald, Tucker, Simpkin, Logue, Zurhaar, Larkey, Fisher

Eagles: McGovern, Cripps, Darling, Gaff, Yeo, Kelly, Hunt, Sheed, Barrass, Ryan (to go down to same age as Norths 10th you can add Duggan, Cole, & Waterman)

Hawks: Breust, Gunston, Wingard, Frost, Sicily, Impey, Amon, Chol, Hardwick, Meek

I’d give North a 2/10 for good contributor, better than the young’ns (Larkey & fit Logue). Eagles have pretty close to 8/10 when fit (Gaff & Darling not it - but even then Darling gets a game) and just like McGovern, Yeo & Cripps got fit, maybe Ryan & Sheed do too. Hawks are probably a 8/10 too (Wingard Achilles probably can’t see an easy way back for him and while Chol tore North up yesterday, he is too hit and miss as a senior player).

Now, in terms of where they rated as draft picks, I’m pretty sure Norths list for 25 & under would be highest in the game. This isn’t really meaningful other than we have spent longer at the bottom than the other 2 clubs - but that’s where “hope” is and that’s what I’m assuming most discussions are about.

The problem with North I’ve long said is development. Take LDU for example. He was underrated early in his career as a prospect because opposition supporters didn’t know how hampered he was. He started working his way into a man’s body, looked like he was going to be a bonafide gun with the signs he showed at 22-23 (namely the way he finished off 2022 - 8 Brownlow votes in last 6 or 7 games I think).
Now he has stagnated. I’d be shocked if he registers one vote the way he is going this year. His career is tracking Simpkins nicely - I.e. an honest B grader who gets thumped by elite mids and his accolades come from winning a shit teams B&F.

At WC or Hawthorn, with his talent, do I think he’d be pushed into being a proper gun? Absolutely.

Hawthorn & West Coast are far better clubs off-field than North and that’s where the lists really take the fork in the road.
You have got Waterman back on track. Allen is a star. Reid I won’t give West Coast credit for - he’s just the most confident kid I’ve ever seen and nothing will stop him from being motivated to be the best. Hawks will leave no stone unturned and get Lewis & Jiath right. They’ll get Day & Newcombe to pack a 1-2 punch that stands up in finals.

On names alone we have great youth that did great things at junior level and should be great.
But if they do be great it’ll be at another club (McKay/JHF/Zurhaar form) or they’ll go down as a North champion (Swallow/Ziebell/Cunnington) but having not actually done anything at a league level.

 

[Soggy2112]

We are currently as bad as we have been in the past 5 years.

That is saying A LOT.

Never has a team been so incompetent and uncompetitive defensively. And I am sick of young individuals getting blamed - it is just a complete lack of team defence. They’ve all lost one on ones at times but honestly I’m prepared to say Sam Taylor would get a bag kicked on him at North right now.

I don’t think any coach could do a hell of a lot better, our list is awful and mismanaged; so many eggs in the midfielders as high draft picks basket.

However I do think Clarkson has Malthouse @ Carlton written all over him. A challenge insurmountable for their age & fatigue.
And I do think he is ignoring some obvious issues - Sheezel wasted in defence, but then our best key back prospect gets moved at half time to the forward/ruck, dropping Greenwood & Shiels when we clearly have too many kids on the field to be competitive (some of them will be better learning at VFL, poor Sellars has had 8 weeks on a list & then gets put key forward in this side - how’s that for his confidence?). He finally dropped Stephenson after a month but Stephens is just as soft & uncompetitive, you can’t have players like that at AFL level. Tucker & Fisher aren’t much better but can’t drop everyone.

I think the thing that baffles me is how unaccountable he has the defence playing. They all seem to be running around chasing kicks. It’s one of the reasons I can’t work out the Zac Fisher recruitment and decision to play him in the backline.

I don’t think anyone expects Clarko to have North playing finals, however, when Roos took over at Melbourne they still finished 4-18 but it was immediately obvious to everyone watching that he had changed the way the Demons were playing and was establishing a system and working to a plan. I don’t really see any of that with the way he’s coaching at North.

 

[SSSSSS]

Sorry there is no way that Clarko isn't phoning it in.

Playing probably the highest line in all of AFL footy with the weakest list (and most certainly the weakest defensive unit) is suicidal. Hawthorn went coast to coast for about 5-6 goals yesterday.

Trading in peahearts like Fisher + Stephens on 4-5 year contracts is madness.

Playing 4 wingmen/midfielders in defense who's weaknesses are their defensive application (!!) is madness.

Sending Comben who has trained all year at CHB and was the only player in his team who had a positional win and throwing him CHF was desperate. It was madness. At least send Biguoa up forward as he was getting spanked. Who in their right mind kills the flower to water the weeds?

Massive questions need to be asked if Clarko is the right man for the job. He looks well past his used by date.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Where's the pressure on their list management? How many cheap players were picked up around the league that could easily be best 22 for North right now?

Their blind pursuit of kids in positions they already have plenty of talent is what's screwing them over.

Someone else called out Malthouse at Carlton vibes for Clarko. I don't think he's that bad and certainly hasn't gotten rid of guys like prime Eddie Betts to bring in an injured Daisy Thomas...but the lack of motivation and hunger is eerily similar.

 

[Spud11]

Sorry there is no way that Clarko isn't phoning it in.

Playing probably the highest line in all of AFL footy with the weakest list (and most certainly the weakest defensive unit) is suicidal. Hawthorn went coast to coast for about 5-6 goals yesterday.

Trading in peahearts like Fisher + Stephens on 4-5 year contracts is madness.

Playing 4 wingmen/midfielders in defense who's weaknesses are their defensive application (!!) is madness.

Sending Comben who has trained all year at CHB and was the only player in his team who had a positional win and throwing him CHF was desperate. It was madness. At least send Biguoa up forward as he was getting spanked. Who in their right mind kills the flower to water the weeds?

Massive questions need to be asked if Clarko is the right man for the job. He looks well past his used by date.

Yep agree with all of that

 

[Gavin Excell]

To be fair to Clarkson his team is mostly kids, and I don’t think his backline is even vfl standard apart from the obvious players such as sheezel. I rarely watch their games though they are always stinkers.

The tackling statistics in that second quarter when Hawks were slamming on the goals really showed North up for a lack of effort.
I'm not sure their senior leaders set the right standards

 

[Gavin Excell]

We are currently as bad as we have been in the past 5 years.

That is saying A LOT.

Never has a team been so incompetent and uncompetitive defensively. And I am sick of young individuals getting blamed - it is just a complete lack of team defence. They’ve all lost one on ones at times but honestly I’m prepared to say Sam Taylor would get a bag kicked on him at North right now.

I don’t think any coach could do a hell of a lot better, our list is awful and mismanaged; so many eggs in the midfielders as high draft picks basket.

However I do think Clarkson has Malthouse @ Carlton written all over him. A challenge insurmountable for their age & fatigue.
And I do think he is ignoring some obvious issues - Sheezel wasted in defence, but then our best key back prospect gets moved at half time to the forward/ruck, dropping Greenwood & Shiels when we clearly have too many kids on the field to be competitive (some of them will be better learning at VFL, poor Sellars has had 8 weeks on a list & then gets put key forward in this side - how’s that for his confidence?). He finally dropped Stephenson after a month but Stephens is just as soft & uncompetitive, you can’t have players like that at AFL level. Tucker & Fisher aren’t much better but can’t drop everyone.

Was Stephens traded in for one of the end of 1st round priority picks?