Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia?

[McCrann]

Very interesting article in The Age today.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/socc...-world-cup-spots-for-asia-20100812-11zxx.html

Given all of you have been saying Australia will get the Oceania vote and also the Thailand delegate's vote, well Houston, we have a problem.

For Australia to get the Oceania vote they're clearly going to have to promise to support Oceania getting a full World Cup spot - otherwise, another bidder from another Confederation with less to lose (ie USA), can promise the same thing confident that spot will be taken away from Asia.

But, if Australia promises Oceania this extra spot (most likely from Asia) - then Australia can forget about getting the support of the Thai delegate, or indeed any support from other Asian delegates if Australia somehow becomes the final Asian candidate standing.

To become the final Asian candidate standing - Australia really needs that Oceania vote in the first place - hence - the promise will have to be made so forget getting a Thai vote first up or ever.

Really puts the Australian bid team in a quandary here - gonna be very hard to get the Oceania vote now - so where will it go? Likely to the USA, as would all other Asian delegates in an Australia v USA showdown.

Japan fears reduced World Cup spots for Asia
TOKYO
August 12, 2010

Japan's football chief is worried that Asia's four and a half berths in the 2014 World Cup may be reduced to four, with Oceania expected to demand a full spot.

"I'm worried," Japan Football Association (JFA) president Junji Ogura was quoted as saying on Wednesday by the daily Chunichi Sports.

"We must think about how to fight against it."

Currently, Asia has four direct qualifying berths for the World Cup finals and one half spot via a two-tiered play-off with Oceania's champions.

Oceania Football Confederation president Reynald Temarii is "certain" to demand a full berth for his region when the executive committee of FIFA, football's world governing body, meets in December, an unnamed senior JFA official told the daily.

Both Ogura and Temarii are members of the committee.

Temarii is expected to point out that New Zealand never lost a match in the 2010 finals in South Africa after beating Bahrain in the Oceania-Asia play-off while North Korea, one of the four Asian entries, lost all three group matches.

Interesting also that this article is direct from Tokyo - it hasn't been spun in any way by any of The Age's chief Soccer spruikers - Michael Lynch, Dan Silkstone or even Mike Cockerill.

 

[AJ_2000]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Perhaps you should try reading the article, 1+1=6017 in this case

• The WC spot isn't Australia's to give so we can't promise it to Oceania
• WC spots are deceided by the FIFA congress (which Asia has 4 (the same delegates that vote for the world cup), Oceania only 1)
• Oceania will support Australia's bid based on the direct benefit to their region

There has been no mention from FIFA that they intend to change the current numbers. A simple solution for 2014 would be to take the 0.5 spot from South America and give it to Oceania as Brazil are an automatic qualifier, and SA would still have 5 teams at the WC.

Oceania was granted direct qualification to the 2006 WC, however that was taken away prior to the qualification rounds due to pressure from South America.

 

[Stevie80]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

There has been no mention from FIFA that they intend to change the current numbers. A simple solution for 2014 would be to take the 0.5 spot from South America and give it to Oceania as Brazil are an automatic qualifier, and SA would still have 5 teams at the WC.

Try not to use logic when you post on this forum, it does not sit well with others

There have been rumours that Oceania will eventually join up with the Asian confederation in the long term, with the smaller nations to go through a early knock-out phase and NZ to automatically qualify for the later stages, as per the bigger Asian nations.

 

[AJ_2000]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-w...771/All-Whites-keen-to-mix-it-with-Asias-best

New Zealand Football and the Oceania Football Confederation are behind the move to join the final stage of Asian qualifying and they have pitched the idea to Fifa. Two pathways have been mooted.
The first is status quo, where the Oceania winners play off against the fifth-placed Asian side a la New Zealand v Bahrain last year. That is the most likely option for 2014.
The second is the scenario mentioned above, where the winners would go into Asia's final group of 10 (two pools of five teams).

 

[Zidane98]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Thailand is a member of the ASEAN football association, of which Australia has officially joined. Their vote and Oceania's vote are guarantees for us in every round of World Cup voting as an Australian World Cup is effectively a home World Cup for both delegates.

I really don't know what you are trying to get at.

 

[Watergate]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Very interesting article in The Age today.
..

For Australia to get the Oceania vote they're clearly going to have to promise to support Oceania getting a full World Cup spot - otherwise, another bidder from another Confederation with less to lose (ie USA), can promise the same thing confident that spot will be taken away from Asia

Australia has no control over the allocation of spots at future WC's!

With all due respect, you should stick to analysing matters that are no more complex than:
* capping the interchange
* whether it should be 6 points or 1 point if the ball hits the post
* could AFL players wear tighter hot pants without affecting their reproductive organs

 

[Stevie80]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Australia has no control over the allocation of spots at future WC's!

With all due respect, you should stick to analysing matters that are no more complex than:
* capping the interchange
* whether it should be 6 points or 1 point if the ball hits the post
* could AFL players wear tighter hot pants without affecting their reproductive organs

* should we allow players to play on quickly after a point is scored to speed up the game, only to complain that the game is becoming too fast

 

[McCrann]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Perhaps you should try reading the article, 1+1=6017 in this case

• The WC spot isn't Australia's to give so we can't promise it to Oceania
• WC spots are deceided by the FIFA congress (which Asia has 4 (the same delegates that vote for the world cup), Oceania only 1)
• Oceania will support Australia's bid based on the direct benefit to their region

There has been no mention from FIFA that they intend to change the current numbers. A simple solution for 2014 would be to take the 0.5 spot from South America and give it to Oceania as Brazil are an automatic qualifier, and SA would still have 5 teams at the WC.

Oceania was granted direct qualification to the 2006 WC, however that was taken away prior to the qualification rounds due to pressure from South America.

Of course I understand this.

The point is - the Oceania delegate - Reynald Temarii would clearly like an expression of support for his point of view - Australia will not be able to give that if it is at the expense of an Asian spot - which it might be. The USA will be able to argue that giving Oceania a direct spot at the expense of the worst Confederation based on 2010 performance (Asia), is something it can and will support.

Where do you think Temarii's vote goes then? To the USA of course.

If Australia support Temarii with his request/demand - then forget about the Thai delegate supporting Australia - how could he, Australia could effectively be getting rid of Thailand's best chance to get to a World Cup!

How can you not see this? Possibly some deal will be worked out, but at the expense of what? Qatar's vote? Thailand's vote?

Clearly we are in a tougher position than the USA in relation to this Oceania demand - we are being pulled in 2 directions!

I'm surprised you can't understand this basic point. We have to choose a side - which side will we choose? It seems clear we'll side with Asia given they could pretty much destroy the viability of the A-League if they kicked us out of the Confederation.

 

[Zidane98]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Asia wasn't the worst confederation at SA, that was Concacaf. Asia had 2 in the round of 16, plus Australia was one of the best sides to not get through to the second round. CONCACAF had the US who did OK, Mexico who did OK and Honduras who were terrible. If anything your theory is bad news for CONCACAF who only really have 2 competitive teams (US and Mexico) whereas Asia has at least 5 competitive teams (Australia, Korea, Japan, Iran and Bahrain).

The US can't and won't support a direct spot for any confederation, that's a ridiculous idea. Temari's vote is guaranteed, there's no other way to put it.

 

[Watergate]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

...
If Australia support Temarii with his request/demand ...

Ok let's walk you slowly through this since you seem to be a bit slow on the uptake.

1. The allocation of spots for the 2014 FIFA WC in Brazil will be determined by the FIFA Executive Committee in 2011.

2. In order for Australia to to support/ reject any proposal to give the Oceania Confederation a full spot at the 2014 FIFA WC, an Australian would have to be capable of casting a vote in favour of Oceania's proposal

But, here's the thing, McCrann ...

And, you need to listen very carefully since this seems to be the part which confuses you ...

3. Currently, there is no Australian on the FIFA Executive Committee

 

[AJ_2000]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Did you only read half of the article that you posted?

Here is the second part in case you missed it:

After Japan and South Korea reached the last-16 round but failed to book a quarter-final in South Africa, Asian Football Confederation (AFC) president Mohamed Bin Hammam said Asia's 4.5 berths were "fully protected."

When asked if the Asian spots would be reviewed, he told reporters: "Absolutely not."

"There is no question of any reduction in our quota," said Bin Hammam, according to AFC's website.

"This is the first time I am hearing about this. And there has been absolutely no discussion (in the FIFA executive committee) on this. We are happy with 4.5 spots," he added.

 

[Michael2010]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Oceania will not get an automatic qualification spot at the world cup. That is 110% guaranteed. Look at the Oceania region. That effectively means New Zealand will get a free entry into the world cup every single time. It's an embarrassment for FIFA and there will be so much moaning from all the other confederations that it will never ever happen. New Zealand is extremely fortunate at the moment that they will verse a side from Asia instead of South America.

I think the current system will stand with Asia at 4.5 spots and Oceania having the opportunity to take the half spot away from Asia. South America, North America, Europe etc spot allocation may change with more play off games to decide who gets into the world cup. Asia and Oceania don't need or require any changes. The allocation currently is perfect, in time it may increase possibly as the standard of football in Asia improves and more teams are in the top 20 of the FIFA rankings.

 

[Checker Hughes]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Please move this thread- it is not consistent with the classification of the sub forum

This sub forum relates specifically to the 2022 World Cup bid-NOTHING ELSE

 

[scotto_01]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Thailand is a member of the ASEAN football association, of which Australia has officially joined. Their vote and Oceania's vote are guarantees for us in every round of World Cup voting as an Australian World Cup is effectively a home World Cup for both delegates.

I really don't know what you are trying to get at.

this

as for oceania getting a full spot, imo it should happen, but wont.

reason being is the confederation is too weak.

in 01 they granted oceania a full spot, only to take it away and since then weve transfered to asia so the arguement is even less compelling now than back then from fifa's point of view. long term i can see new zealand wanting into asia and fifa will just dissolve oceania and possibly split asia into east and west (although i wouldnt, no real need to split asia)

 

[Barkly St End]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

I don't wish to come across as an educationalist, but Australia is not yet an official member of the ASEAN football association, they are currently described as an "invitee".

At the moment Australia only participates in the youth tournaments (as we did recently).

 

[Nardz]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

oceania shouldn't even be a confederation.

the rest of the continent should do what australia did and join asia, and them maybe asia can be upgraded to 5 spots instead of 4.5.

as others have mentioned, oceania is far to weak to deserve an automatic spot. with australia gone that would pretty much be guaranteed to new zealand every time.

if you merge australia and asia new zealand would have a chance to qualify, but they would have to earn it, as australia did.

 

[Barkly St End]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

oceania shouldn't even be a confederation.

the rest of the continent should do what australia did and join asia, and them maybe asia can be upgraded to 5 spots instead of 4.5.

as others have mentioned, oceania is far to weak to deserve an automatic spot. with australia gone that would pretty much be guaranteed to new zealand every time.

if you merge australia and asia new zealand would have a chance to qualify, but they would have to earn it, as australia did.

Many of us might agree, but surely FIFA has to take some blame for allowing this situation to persist?

My view has always been: if FIFA wish to retain it as a confederation, it must have a minimum of one spot, because every nation deserves to be represented in the the World Cup (otherwise we go back to 16 teams, and have Barzil, Argentina, the best 13 European teams, and Mexico can play off against the US for the final spot).

 

[mojito]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Many of us might agree, but surely FIFA has to take some blame for allowing this situation to persist?

My view has always been: if FIFA wish to retain it as a confederation, it must have a minimum of one spot, because every nation deserves to be represented in the the World Cup (otherwise we go back to 16 teams, and have Barzil, Argentina, the best 13 European teams, and Mexico can play off against the US for the final spot).

Hell must have frozen over...because I agree with you.

 

[Stevie80]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Many of us might agree, but surely FIFA has to take some blame for allowing this situation to persist?

My view has always been: if FIFA wish to retain it as a confederation, it must have a minimum of one spot, because every nation deserves to be represented in the the World Cup (otherwise we go back to 16 teams, and have Barzil, Argentina, the best 13 European teams, and Mexico can play off against the US for the final spot).

This is only possible if FIFA lift the number of teams in the World Cup from 32 to about 206. For some strange reason i don't think this will happen.

 

[Barkly St End]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Hell must have frozen over...because I agree with you.

Actually - I made an error - so now is not the time to agree!

As Steve points out, I meant to say confederation rather than nation.

 

[mojito]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Actually - I made an error - so now is not the time to agree!

As Steve points out, I meant to say confederation rather than nation.

Well not to appear a smart arse...every nation is represented at the world cup if you view it in two parts (a) the qualification processes and (b) the finals proper.

But I agree with the idea that every confed should have at least one full place at the finals proper, or at the very least...FIFA should introduce some sort of system similar to what they have in europe which allocates slots to the Champions League/Europa League.

 

[Zidane98]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

Believe it or not I agree with BSE on this one - Oceania should get an automatic spot, otherwise dissolve Oceania into AFC and create an Oceania football association (similar to the ASEAN football association).

 

[Zidane98]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

I don't wish to come across as an educationalist, but Australia is not yet an official member of the ASEAN football association, they are currently described as an "invitee".

At the moment Australia only participates in the youth tournaments (as we did recently).

True, although I did read somewhere recently that Australia has concluded a deal which will see us join ASEAN - not sure when that will actually happen.

 

[McCrann]

Re: Oceania set to demand full World Cup place - Can Australia promise this - at the expense of Asia

True, although I did read somewhere recently that Australia has concluded a deal which will see us join ASEAN - not sure when that will actually happen.

Rudd is gawn - I wouldn't hold your breath on this one.