Official List Management Thread

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Re: List Management - Who What and Why

wall_ryan said:
Oh k, how many did he slot?
Click to expand...

I hate to say it but Tredrea beat Rutten, though not by heaps. He got 18 possessions and was an important avenue to their goalscoring forwards.

Rutten may have had 17 possessions, and a great mark, but we all know that defenders possessions probably aren't equivalent to forwards in todays game (maybe a ratio of 15:10 would be even, depending on the forwards damage?).

It was another indication that for whatever reason Rutten has gone from brilliant player to only very good.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

What do you want to see for the rest of the year?

Obviously, it should all be how best to prepare for next year.

For their performance next year, i would give game time this year to Otten, Walker, Mackay and, when fit, Hentschel.

To answer questions re their future, i believe Gill and Campbell should be given every opportunity until no doubt exists either way. I'm very hopeful for Gill and Campbell impressed me last weekend as i think he is more skilled than we give him credit for...was nice to see a long kick actually hit a lead:eek:

IF the club has a question mark on Gallman, get him in and see if he can swim. Allowances must be made re his preparation but if he can do it he will show some glimpses.

I'd like to see if McLeod can regain form and fitness in the back pocket.

I'd like Johncock to reinvent himself up forward.

I believe the timing is right for Tippett to rest his battered body against the generally smaller players in the SANFL. Also an opportunity to get his hands on the ball a bit and rebuild some confidence. He is a youngster I'd actually demote for the rest of the year to protect next years development. Valuable commodity.

All the veterans above 30 keep their spot out of respect to their wonderful careers.

Those in the next tier (except Doughty who keeps his spot due to excellent performance) can be dropped to make way for some young-uns. We know what Shirley, Massie, Stevens can do. Dropping them now doesn't mean they will be delisted but we have more to gain in the next 6 weeks by playing those who are ready to gain more AFL experience.

Oh, and Jericho can be moved on for good.

So the inclusions which should be done incrementally over the next 3-4 weeks (perhaps with a youngun who comes in this week making way for Hentschel) should include:

Gill, Walker, Otten, Mackay, Hentschel, Gallman (if the club is unsure on him)/Kite (if Gallman a definite retain, Kite has the better form).

To make way for them are Jericho, Shirley, Tippett, Stevens, Massie
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

While i'm on a roll on a morning off...

Basic draft strategy:

1) Delist/Trade for picks 8-9 players (with additional player for player trades if advantageous)

2) Upgrade 1-2 rookies

3) End up with 7 picks in the draft, and 3-4 rookie picks (i believe there are 2 extra rookie spots next year?).

Of those 7 picks:

First 3 picks...the best available.

Next 2 picks...the best available but with more attention to needs (will need another 190-192cm mobile defender imo amongst other things. Somewhere we need another young ruck to develop also)

Last 2 picks...aim for 'mature-age' players in the 20-23yo range IF they are good enough. We will have a lot of young blokes on our list but that is no excuse for not culling the average players over 25. Simply top up with good mature agers who can likely fill a spot asap if required and will hopefully develop to be better than the guys we let go (eg McGregor). I reckon where mature-agers are worth it are late-blooming talls who hadn't quite done it as teenagers but are now good performers (maybe a Grima) or conversely the true footballer who missed out because of size, fitness, skills on the track but who is a proven player (an example of this who is now too old may have been a Callinan type). Remember i am talking our low picks. If there are no decent mature options, go for the next best youngsters.

Rookie draft...another opportunity for a mature-ager and/or young guys who fit the above profile of a player who is risk because they are a tall who may not come on (like Griffin was) or a small who may not make it (Curnow, Martin style).

Overall 10-11 new players, not accounting for established players we may trade for. Yep, it's a lot and it's a risk but we'd only be culling those who are either injured, too old, or added no value anyway (Jericho). The judicious use of DECENT mature-agers minimises the risk a little bit (i.e Grima comes in if Hentschel/Walker/Gill /Tippett all go down rather than a stringbean 18yo).
 

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Re: List Management - Who What and Why

SpringChoke said:
I dont like it when a coach chooses too many of HIS ex-players to be his assistants. You get a situation much like the one at Port Power at the moment, whereby you have your head coach surrounded by a bunch of YES men. With Hart and Clarke, the AFC are on the way to already having enough ex-afc players alongside NC.
Click to expand...

I agree with this as well, whilst we need some new blood in the coaches box to mix things up a bit they should absolutely not just gift a newly retired Crow one of the assistant coaching positions. We need some fresh insights and coaches who know how to handle and develop young talent (which will be our primary focus for the next 1-2 years) to that end I would suggest the club tries to poach an assistant or 2 from Hawthorn or Geelong, 2 clubs which have done both of these things brilliantly in recent times and are the current pace setters in the AFL.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

In terms of recruiting it would be nice if the AFC could pick up a bloke with flair who knows how to kick a goal. Whether he be a small forward pocket, an elusive half foward or a gun forward we need to draft a bloke who has a history of finishing. I was hoping 2 drafts ago we would draft McKinley who lead the goalkickers but was deemed to short. He slipped to late 20s. From last years draft only Jacky looked like he knew where the goals were going from his old highlights. Lets forget about picking up Rhodes Scholars and rocket scientists who run the Boston Marathon and pick up a football player who didnt have a college schooling background
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Freddy Bassett said:
In terms of recruiting it would be nice if the AFC could pick up a bloke with flair who knows how to kick a goal. Whether he be a small forward pocket, an elusive half foward or a gun forward we need to draft a bloke who has a history of finishing. I was hoping 2 drafts ago we would draft McKinley who lead the goalkickers but was deemed to short. He slipped to late 20s. From last years draft only Jacky looked like he knew where the goals were going from his old highlights. Lets forget about picking up Rhodes Scholars and rocket scientists who run the Boston Marathon and pick up a football player who didnt have a college schooling background
Click to expand...

Just on McKinley, I heard somewhere he had his bags packed and he thought he was an almost certainty to be heading to Adelaide until Meesen slipped in the draft. I like the look of the kid, has football smarts.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Freddy Bassett said:
In terms of recruiting it would be nice if the AFC could pick up a bloke with flair who knows how to kick a goal. Whether he be a small forward pocket, an elusive half foward or a gun forward we need to draft a bloke who has a history of finishing. I was hoping 2 drafts ago we would draft McKinley who lead the goalkickers but was deemed to short. He slipped to late 20s. From last years draft only Jacky looked like he knew where the goals were going from his old highlights. Lets forget about picking up Rhodes Scholars and rocket scientists who run the Boston Marathon and pick up a football player who didnt have a college schooling background
Click to expand...

Small forward pocket: Graham Johncock

Leading full-forward: Taylor Walker

Huge monster with great hands: Kurt Tippett

Elusive half-forward (when not on ball): Jason Porplyzia

X-factors of the future??: Trent Hentschel and James Sellar

still leaves a gun forward short (unless one of the above develop++)...

IF we had a blue-chip player to trade who could we realistically make a play for? Is there anyone of the required age, talent and willingness to come to SA?
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

31 Bassett Biglands Edwards Goodwin McLeod
30 Burton
29
28 Doughty Massie Shirley
27 McGregor
26 Stevens
25 Bock Gill Hentschel Johncock Rutten Thompson
24 Reilly
23 Campbell Jericho Porplyzia Symes
22 Griffin Maric van Berlo Vince
21 Douglas Knights Moran Tippett
20 Mackay
19 Gallman Jacky Otten Sellar (Martin#)
18 Armstrong Cook Dangerfield Kite Walker (Moss# Petrenko# Curnow#)

Have been thinking a bit more about this issue today. As has been said by plenty of others, our biggest problem is the lack of quality, match-influencing footballers (highlighted in bold above, with some use of the crystal ball) between the ages of 25 and 31. For various reasons we have been left with solid performers or injury-stricken players only in this age group.

The basic wisdom being bandied about - and this was reinforced by Trigg before the game on 5AA - is that, going back to Hart, Clarke, Torney, Ricciuto etc we have a large group of senior players that we have to progressively and methodically phase out over the next few years.

Is this the case though?

Looking at the list above, from 25 years old down we look pretty solid. But we are not going to have a well balanced list, with a spread of quality players from ages 18-30 for another 4-5 years. Not until Bock, Thompson, Johncock and Rutten hit 29-30 years of age.

Given that we are going to be out of balance for the next 4-5 years anyway, why wouldn't we keep Edwards, McLeod, Goodwin and Burton on the list for the next two seasons and instead delist all the 'solid performers' in the 26-31 year old age group? That is Bassett, Biglands, Doughty, Massie, Shirley, McGregor and Stevens.
 

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Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Carl Spackler said:
31 Bassett Biglands Edwards Goodwin McLeod
30 Burton
29
28 Doughty Massie Shirley
27 McGregor
26 Stevens
25 Bock Gill Hentschel Johncock Rutten Thompson
24 Reilly
23 Campbell Jericho Porplyzia Symes
22 Griffin Maric van Berlo Vince
21 Douglas Knights Moran Tippett
20 Mackay
19 Gallman Jacky Otten Sellar (Martin#)
18 Armstrong Cook Dangerfield Kite Walker (Moss# Petrenko# Curnow#)

Have been thinking a bit more about this issue today. As has been said by plenty of others, our biggest problem is the lack of quality, match-influencing footballers (highlighted in bold above, with some use of the crystal ball) between the ages of 25 and 31. For various reasons we have been left with solid performers or injury-stricken players only in this age group.

The basic wisdom being bandied about - and this was reinforced by Trigg before the game on 5AA - is that, going back to Hart, Clarke, Torney, Ricciuto etc we have a large group of senior players that we have to progressively and methodically phase out over the next few years.

Is this the case though?

Looking at the list above, from 25 years old down we look pretty solid. But we are not going to have a well balanced list, with a spread of quality players from ages 18-30 for another 4-5 years. Not until Bock, Thompson, Johncock and Rutten hit 29-30 years of age.

Given that we are going to be out of balance for the next 4-5 years anyway, why wouldn't we keep Edwards, McLeod, Goodwin and Burton on the list for the next two seasons and instead delist all the 'solid performers' in the 26-31 year old age group? That is Bassett, Biglands, Doughty, Massie, Shirley, McGregor and Stevens.
Click to expand...

Personally I think everything below and include the 25 yo line is our priority. Everyone older is second to our youth, harsh but theyve had their chance at it.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Carl Spackler said:
31 Bassett Biglands Edwards Goodwin McLeod
30 Burton
29
28 Doughty Massie Shirley
27 McGregor
26 Stevens
25 Bock Gill Hentschel Johncock Rutten Thompson
24 Reilly
23 Campbell Jericho Porplyzia Symes
22 Griffin Maric van Berlo Vince
21 Douglas Knights Moran Tippett
20 Mackay
19 Gallman Jacky Otten Sellar (Martin#)
18 Armstrong Cook Dangerfield Kite Walker (Moss# Petrenko# Curnow#)

Have been thinking a bit more about this issue today. As has been said by plenty of others, our biggest problem is the lack of quality, match-influencing footballers (highlighted in bold above, with some use of the crystal ball) between the ages of 25 and 31. For various reasons we have been left with solid performers or injury-stricken players only in this age group.

The basic wisdom being bandied about - and this was reinforced by Trigg before the game on 5AA - is that, going back to Hart, Clarke, Torney, Ricciuto etc we have a large group of senior players that we have to progressively and methodically phase out over the next few years.

Is this the case though?

Looking at the list above, from 25 years old down we look pretty solid. But we are not going to have a well balanced list, with a spread of quality players from ages 18-30 for another 4-5 years. Not until Bock, Thompson, Johncock and Rutten hit 29-30 years of age.

Given that we are going to be out of balance for the next 4-5 years anyway, why wouldn't we keep Edwards, McLeod, Goodwin and Burton on the list for the next two seasons and instead delist all the 'solid performers' in the 26-31 year old age group? That is Bassett, Biglands, Doughty, Massie, Shirley, McGregor and Stevens.
Click to expand...

We'll be phasing out both the "solid performers" and the "old age group" in parallel. Unfortunately, it's a matter of "and" not "or".
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Vader said:
We'll be phasing out both the "solid performers" and the "old age group" in parallel. Unfortunately, it's a matter of "and" not "or".
Click to expand...
Do you think we will though?

I get the sinking feeling that it will only be the oldies who find their way on to the scrapheap and that all those that are 26-28 will remain on the list, producing the same good, honest football in the same support roles they have always filled.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Carl Spackler said:
31 Bassett Biglands Edwards Goodwin McLeod
30 Burton
29
28 Doughty Massie Shirley
27 McGregor
26 Stevens
25 Bock Gill Hentschel Johncock Rutten Thompson
24 Reilly
23 Campbell Jericho Porplyzia Symes
22 Griffin Maric van Berlo Vince
21 Douglas Knights Moran Tippett
20 Mackay
19 Gallman Jacky Otten Sellar (Martin#)
18 Armstrong Cook Dangerfield Kite Walker (Moss# Petrenko# Curnow#)

Have been thinking a bit more about this issue today. As has been said by plenty of others, our biggest problem is the lack of quality, match-influencing footballers (highlighted in bold above, with some use of the crystal ball) between the ages of 25 and 31. For various reasons we have been left with solid performers or injury-stricken players only in this age group.

The basic wisdom being bandied about - and this was reinforced by Trigg before the game on 5AA - is that, going back to Hart, Clarke, Torney, Ricciuto etc we have a large group of senior players that we have to progressively and methodically phase out over the next few years.

Is this the case though?

Looking at the list above, from 25 years old down we look pretty solid. But we are not going to have a well balanced list, with a spread of quality players from ages 18-30 for another 4-5 years. Not until Bock, Thompson, Johncock and Rutten hit 29-30 years of age.

Given that we are going to be out of balance for the next 4-5 years anyway, why wouldn't we keep Edwards, McLeod, Goodwin and Burton on the list for the next two seasons and instead delist all the 'solid performers' in the 26-31 year old age group? That is Bassett, Biglands, Doughty, Massie, Shirley, McGregor and Stevens.
Click to expand...

The reason for the lack of quality 25-30 yo players is due to the Gary Ayres era, we drafted players most of them were never tried and eventually delisted while we continued with pretty much the same group of players year in year out and tried to top up our list with trades rather than develop the players already on our list.

Looking back at our junior development and player progression during Ayres' time was terrible. it was all short sighted success now, worry later decisions which have now left our list with a massive hole between 30 and 25. The sad thing is that Rutten was next for the scrap heap under Ayres. So we now wonder who many other potential diamonds could have been on that list that were just ignored and left to stagnate in the SANFL.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

bobshoby said:
I agree with this as well, whilst we need some new blood in the coaches box to mix things up a bit they should absolutely not just gift a newly retired Crow one of the assistant coaching positions. We need some fresh insights and coaches who know how to handle and develop young talent (which will be our primary focus for the next 1-2 years) to that end I would suggest the club tries to poach an assistant or 2 from Hawthorn or Geelong, 2 clubs which have done both of these things brilliantly in recent times and are the current pace setters in the AFL.
Click to expand...

Would love an Andrew Jarmen or who is the doggies coach
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

SpringChoke said:
Just on McKinley, I heard somewhere he had his bags packed and he thought he was an almost certainty to be heading to Adelaide until Meesen slipped in the draft. I like the look of the kid, has football smarts.
Click to expand...

Wrong draft I think Spring. McKinley got picked up in the draft we recruited Dougo and Pfeiffer. I know it is easy to use hindsight and say we shouldnt of got Pfeiffer, but Mckinley if he was 6cm taller would of gone top 10 and I though he was the perfect guy for us at pick 16 or 17 as we had both. He was a goal kicking machine and he is the type of player I hope we can start looking at.
I must admit by Jackys highlights from last year in the u18 championships I thought we may of uncovered a guy who knows where the sticks are. Hasnt shown much yet, but its still early days
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Freddy Bassett said:
Wrong draft I think Spring. McKinley got picked up in the draft we recruited Dougo and Pfeiffer. I know it is easy to use hindsight and say we shouldnt of got Pfeiffer, but Mckinley if he was 6cm taller would of gone top 10 and I though he was the perfect guy for us at pick 16 or 17 as we had both. He was a goal kicking machine and he is the type of player I hope we can start looking at.
I must admit by Jackys highlights from last year in the u18 championships I thought we may of uncovered a guy who knows where the sticks are. Hasnt shown much yet, but its still early days
Click to expand...

I thought the year we got meesen we were going to take Wood with our first pick, but Meesen was still there so we took him.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Freddy Bassett said:
Wrong draft I think Spring. McKinley got picked up in the draft we recruited Dougo and Pfeiffer. I know it is easy to use hindsight and say we shouldnt of got Pfeiffer, but Mckinley if he was 6cm taller would of gone top 10 and I though he was the perfect guy for us at pick 16 or 17 as we had both. He was a goal kicking machine and he is the type of player I hope we can start looking at.
I must admit by Jackys highlights from last year in the u18 championships I thought we may of uncovered a guy who knows where the sticks are. Hasnt shown much yet, but its still early days
Click to expand...

Woops. I was close.:D
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

There needs to be some very tough descions made on our list real tough

Do we have the people capable of making them i say

NO

Our season was on shaky ground before the break after the Geelong game we knew where we were at thats when we should have written of 08 but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO still striving for the finals what the hell for
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

Rob Shirley has been ok this year, but his tag on Judd is overrated I feel. Many taggers have had the better of Judd this year...
 

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