Official List Management Thread

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Re: List Management - Who What and Why

The initial idea for parts of this trade were mentioned first by someone else but how does this sound?

Rutten and Jericho to Carlton for Betts and R1 draft pick (around pick 8ish).

Draft Hurley (young KPP that others have described) with our first pick (fingers crossed he is still available).
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

theleftfist8 said:
the Initial Idea For Parts Of This Trade Were Mentioned First By Someone Else But How Does This Sound?

Rutten And Jericho To Carlton For Betts And R1 Draft Pick (around Pick 8ish).

Draft Hurley (young Kpp That Others Have Described) With Our First Pick (fingers Crossed He Is Still Available).
Click to expand...

Wrong. Fail. Go Directly To Jail.
 

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Re: List Management - Who What and Why

KUNG FU said:
Wrong. Fail. Go Directly To Jail.
Click to expand...

Yep i can understand the flack, but if we wanna do a big trade (we probably don't) then you have to give something decent.

Most would regard Rutten as untouchable...i regard him as a very good defender with a brilliant track record whose market value is at its highest. However, i have also come to see his deficiencies becoming slowly but surely more obvious in an era where the best forwards are almost always very athletic (no matter their height).

If you were Carlton would you do it?
 
Player Management

Retired - Bassett and Biglands
Delistings - Who do you think will be delisted? I will start with Nick Gill now i like his effort and dont question it but his disposal is too often poor. I think he is a very good SANFL player but not up to the standard of AFL.

Hentschell - I dont want this to be the case but i dont think the club will want to have both him and birdman on the list at the same time with the risk of injuries. Trent is a hard luck story that could have been the key forward we need.

Sellar - Playing in Glenelg Reserves and the club dont seem to be overly happy with the way he has been playing

not sure where the rest will come from.
what does everyone else think?
 
Re: Player Management

This topic has been done to death.

Out of your players listed:

Hentschel is definetely safe (already stated by the club)
Gill is gone
Sellar in a bit of trouble
 
The definitive 2008 player cull.

-Biglands - Retire

-Bassett - Retire

-Gallman - Delist

-Jericho - Ironic the AFL's least aggressive player spends two years too long on the AFL's least aggressive list.

-McGregor - Last time I looked we weren't registered as a charity organisation. Surely with the current state of our list we have enough salary cap room to pay out his contract. Try and shop around in trade week (surprised if there are buyers) then delist.

-One of Doughty/Massie/Shirley - Will all be 29 next year, need their positions to blood youngsters. If we show the same brutality we showed in delisting Jason Torney, at least one should be moved on.

-Campbell- Has never been given a decent go. Not quite sure why we drafted him.

-Sellar - Another 1st round draft pick wasted. From 2000-2006 not one of our 10 1st round draft picks has been a win (excluding Richard Douglas). The biggest crisis of the last 8 years yet amazingly the powers that be at the AFC have managed to hide it in the closet beautifully. Even more amazing is the majority of the easily pleased AFC supporter base haven't demanded answers.

-One of Goodwin/Mcleod - Great servants and legends of the club but the end is fast approaching. No point in delaying the inevitable. Depends if we want to delay the real rebuild for another year so we can finish 6th-10th.
 
Re: List Management - Who What and Why

DELISTEES


Nathan Bassett - Retired

Rhett Biglands - Retired

Bryce Campbell - Not good enough, at 23 he really should be showing more. Hard as nails and gives his all but we have enough 'try-hard' players as it is.

Greg Gallman - Has had an injury interrupted year. Probably a bit unfair as he hasnt had the chance to give his all, however that is the nature of the beast and just seems nothing more than an average player with a big engine

James Sellar - A very interesting one. I don't want him delisted but I have a funny feeling Neil Craig has seen enough. I also question his off-field behaviour and feel this is a similar scenario to Pfeiffer 2007. I don't think Neil Craig will take his first round selection into consideration - it's either you're good enough or you're not, regardless of where you're drafted, and i don't think that Neil Craig thinks he has the drive or ability to be successful. :(

Simon Goodwin - I think his days are finished. His body is breaking down and looks like a similar scenario to Ricciuto last year. Can''t really afford to keep another injured 30+ year old on our list for another year.

Luke Jericho - I think enough has already been said :mad:

Kris Massie - Has had an ok year, but is very replaceable and I would rather see a young player develop in his place.

Ken McGregor - Will have his contract paid out.


*Hopefully my gut feeling on James Sellar is wrong. If it is, I think we may be saying goodbye to Gill.
 

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End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

Let me start by saying i'll try and give this write up with as little angers as possible, as with most of you, you're probably a little sore about having to wait another 5 or so months to see the red blue and gold.

On today's game:

Pretty soft effort to tell you the truth. Our tackling was very poor and the midfield pressure allowed Collingwood to enter their forward 50 with ease. Not just one or two players down, but a fare few.

Best on today:

Stevens (have we found our crumbing forward pocket?)
Bock (destroyed Cloke, but didn't have the run and carry damaging part to his game)
Maric (can never question his heart)
Rutten (good to see the 105 kg's get thrown around a bit)

On the team as a whole's performance for the year:

You have to respect the character of the club not to bottom out and embarrase itself. The club was expected to finish around the 9-14 mark and gave a very good effort throughout the home and away period, with the exception of 5 weeks.

To be quite honest, that 5 week period occured when we had hard matches, and we just weren't up to it because we're not a top team this year.

Was good to see the club win the Sydney game and show something in ending the 5 game loosing streak against a quality opponant.

The 5 week period was disapointing and so was our lack of consistancy and intensity.

We blooded a lot more youngsters than usual this year which was good and we got both good and bad from the kids.

Overall, we did better than expected but also not as good as we could have.

GRADE: B

Neil Craig:

Again another solid preseason from the master of doing more with less. But yet again another finals exit. Was it his strategy that cost us the game? NO, I don't think it would have mattered who he put where today because we were rubbish.

He tried a few different things again, one of which included a huddle from a kick in which flashed back to the 90's for me, the only team it seemed to confuse was Essendon, alothough it was refreashing to see something different and less mechanical from Craigy.

His frustration must have been boiling over in the box today because our lack of options is just so visable. But he continues to find things here and there.

Nothing crazy done from him again this year, i'dlike to see a bit more risk and adventure with Craigy but I have 100% of my faith in him and am very happy with the contract extention.It will be good to see how we go in 3 years time when our young crop are maturing.

A strong year, but nothing 'special' from the coaches box.

GRADE: B-

Players:

#1 Nick Gill: Well you know what you get with Nick Gill and that is you don't know what the f*#k you will get. This guy is a human dice, it can be good and bad. He leads up relentlessly, gives effort and provides with an X factor. But he is inconsistant, borderline motor neuron challenged and injury prone. Will never be a star but should be retained next year for depth and at the moment because he's our only CHF.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retain

#2 Brad Moran: Gave us a plesant surprise in the Carlton game when he booted 4. Has show great versatility with an ability to ruck, defend and go forward, also shows great agility and speed for his height. But he never seems confident, can be far too luconic and his lack of experience at AFL is visable.

GRADE: B- STATUS: Retain

#3 Kris Massie: Personally, he frustrates me. He will show great courage and have blinders by locking down players and going back with the flight to take good contested marks but then the week after he will show a lack of awareness, skill and intensity. I like him but I believe he will fall under the "unlucky we're being agressive this year" category. Torney II

GRADE: C STATUS: Delist

#4 Kurt Tippett: Light us all on fire in the later pre-season games and first 10 weeks with a great contested marking ability and great agility for a big fella. But then his one dimensional attack and lack of endurance caught up with him along with his lack of experience. A good prospect.

GRADE: B- STATUS: Retain (make him bloody captain if it keeps him away from GC17)

#5 Scott Thompson: Seems to be everybodys favourite whipping boy at the moment, but he's had a wonderful year. He get's heaps on hard ball gets, tackles and goes forward dangerously. Has carried the midfield and been the most experienced and best player for us in the square every week. Has a poor game today, but when he's the only one needing a tag in our team, that will happen.

GRADE: A- STATUS: Retain

#6 Jon Griffin: In the pre-season and rounds 1-10 we saw a shinning light. A great leap, ability to go forward, a good tap ruckman. But his slightness hindered him again as his body wore down after a hip injury. Has to improve his weight, endurance and ability to damage around the ground.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retain

#7 Nathan van Berlo: Started relatively slowly but caught fire from the break on and showed an ability to be damaging rather than just negate. He runs hard, busts a gut for the team, improved offensive skills and a great leader. IMO the captain of the AFC as of NEXT YEAR.

GRADE: B STATUS: Retain, Captain.

#8 Nathan Bassett: Thank you for a great service to the team hound. A guy with 20% ability of the other guys and 100% of his heart entrenched in the club. Unfortunatly he was plagued with injuried and a slowing body this year.

GRADE: C STATUS: Retired Legend

#9 Tyson Edwards: A very shakey start to the year as he seemed to have to adjust to his slowing legs. I thought it was delist time come years end but by round 8 he had adjusted and was back in his consistant form that has made him an AFC great.

GRADE: B STATUS: Retain, one more year for the champ.

#10 Jarrhan Jacky: Was given his opportunity early in the year which indicated two things. One, he wasn't ready and two, we are desperate for a small forward. Seemed out of his depth but shows glimpses of what we can expect in the near future from this exciting prospect. Must learn to stay on his feet.

GRADE: C STATUS: Retain, God I hope he comes on well next year, cause we need him.

#11 Michael Doughty: ROTY Prospect?? Great year from Dogga after it seemed he was as good as gone and lucky to survive the 07 cuts. Is never going to set anyone alight with his blistering spped and unbelievably skills but he's hard at it and wants it.

GRADE: B+ STATUS: Retain

#12 Robert Shirley: Started slow as well but came along with the tagging side of his game well in the second half of the season. For mine, he just doesn't do enough on the other side of the ball to be worth his spot. Harsh indeed, but....

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Delist

#13: Taylor Walker: An unbelievable year in the SANFL from this medium tall. Shows a flaire and X factor that our club is crying out for. Theres no questioning his ability to kick goals, but there may be endurance and defensive pressure problems. Another pre-season should see this Broken Hill boy in our forward line.

GRADE: B+ STATUS: Retain, move to 22 to happen early next year.

#14 David MacKay: Poise well and truely beyond his years. His seems to have time and space and is clean with the ball. Reminds me of Tyson Edwards and that's as good a compliment as you can have. May need to work on his defensive side, his endurance and his ability to damage (like he did running into the goals).

GRADE: B STATUS: Retain

#15 Brad Symes: A personal favourite of mine so i'll be balanced. Defenately doesn't have blistering pace or A+ skill, but his heart is as big as Ivan's and bleeds the red blue and gold as well. Puts in his all and has become a tackling machine as well as a ball magnet.

GRADE: B+ STATUS: Retain

#16 Ken McGregor: The shag has run his course at the Crows. He's provided a good 200 game service to the club but shown he's clearly not upto it.

GRADE: D- STATUS: Trade/Delist

#17 Bernie Vince: Bernie has really stepped his game up to be in our best at the club. His effort in the Showdown was awesome and his long raking right boot and good marking ability show a lot of room to still improve.

GRADE: A- STATUS: Retain

#18 Graham Johncock: Seemed to be on pace to get another AA apearance until a 'personal issue' destroyed his game. Kicking in had always been a strength but now is lacking. Would love to see him wor everything out and come back in good shape next year.

GRADE: C+/B- STATUS: Retain

#19 Patrick Dangerfield: Well, judging by the stats, VC's reports and the video watched of him, he is really a man amoungst boys in the TAC, which is understandable. Great mark, electric pace and an X factor mid for our future. Looked lost in his 2 games this year, as you'd expect seeing as he doesn't train with the team and wouldn't have knowledge of our game plan.

GRADE: B+ (nothing else could be asked really) STATUS: Retain

#20 Ivan Maric: The Crazy Croat has been an inspiration to all who was watched him this year. After a slow pre-season and weeks in the SANFL, all be it dominating, he came in and grabbed the #1 ruck mantle and he aint letting go. If he ran for Prime Minister, he'd have my vote, and the vote of all Po Lamb Sacrifice voters.

GRADE: B+ (A+ if going by just the second half) STATUS: IDOL

#21 Chris Knights: The disposal machine went on again this year without going ahead too much in his developement, but making meaningful strides none the less. Struggled after injuries at times but proved his disposal has indeed improved. I'd love to see a bit more line breaking and goal kicking from Knighta though.

GRADE: B- STATUS: Retain

#22 Andy Otten: Another ball magnet here. Dominates SANFL play but seemed a little out of his depth in the big time, all be it not much time was given to him. A prototypical utility midfielder, forward, back, wing, mid, whatever, I see him doing it. A bigger engine and some weight will do him good.

GRADE: B+ STATUS: Retain

#23 Andrew McLeod: Show glimpses of the old champion but it's obvious he's carrying at least one injury. His disposal has been very sub par after the break and not what we've grown accustomed to. Although, we have been spoiled.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retain, one or maybe two more for the champ.

#24 Brett Burton: Having a career best year up until hig knee gave up whilst just running straight. He's a true X factor for us and we were denied him again due to his injuries. Hope he can recover well.

GRADE: B (A without injuty, but not his doing) STATUS: If he's able to show a sign next year, retain for 2010 but if not, next is his last.

#25 Ben Rutten: Solid as usual, injury had slowed him by round 10 but seemed to play on fairly well. Not his best but always gives it a go.

GRADE: B STATUS: Retain

#26 Richard Douglas: Another whipping boy, but promise shows itself many times. Playing out of position and always puts in but just doesn't have the endurance or strength at the moment. In need of a pre-season and a midfield run next year.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retain

#27 Scott Stevens: The swing man of our team. Forward, back, forward, back. Never going to be a star (although today......:rolleyes:) but is a great insurance policy and is good on both ends of the ground.

GRADE: B (B- before today) STATUS: Retain

#28 Aaron Kite: Seem to have found a sleeper here, although he is still raw. Would be very good to see another pre-season on him. Shows a desire to really beat his man in defence and can run off very well. Tall, fast and promosing. I like what I see.

GRADE: B- STATUS: Retain

#29 James Sellar: Potential and raw but disapointing year none the less. After giving us all wood in the NAB Cup game against the pies he tapered off. Shows all the gifts, had passion and desire but still has the endurance of a brick and needs more forward training.

GRADE: C- STATUS: Retain

#30 Luke Jericho: Luke has run his coarse at the club. Booed 5 against the tigs but his lack of hardness really lets his skills down.

GRADE: D- STATUS: Trade/delist

#31: Bryce Campbell: Hard at it and if merged with Jericho we;d have a star. Unfortunatl;y their not one and we had heart hardness and a slow mid lacking in skill. SANFL Star here.

GRADE: C- STATUS: Delist

#33 Brent Reilly: Poor guy wouldn't mind stringing a game or two together. Great skill and a good leader in a injured body. If he plays a full year next year he'd be in our top 5.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retain, no trade, he means too much for our young vics.

#34: Greg Gallman: Just can't seem to put it together and give the #34 its justice. Not AFL standard.

GRADE: D STATUS: Delist

#35 Rhett Biglands: Poor Guy. Thanks for your time at the club.

#36 Simon Goodwin: Injured, sore and signs of the Roo's last year. Flashes of good but I think he will call it quits. He can't do what he knows he should and is obviously hurting.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retire

#37 Trent Hentschel: Another injury stuck player in our team, although they've all occured in the last 2 years. Would be great to see the old Potential out there, but I don't know if we will.

GRADE: Injury STATUS: Clenically Deceast....Retain, one more year for a shot.

#38 Tony Armstrong: Hasn't shown a whole lot, although he looks clean and silky when out there. Broken arm ended his season, he's a long way and 15 kg off.

GRADE: C STATUS: Retain

#39 Myke Cook: Looks really promising going by the footage i've seen. Needs a lot more weight and more polish but has potential.

GRADE: C+ STATUS: Retain

#40 Jason Porplyzia: Give him credit for playing hurt, he came on very well and looks an out and out star. Looking forward to next year.

GRADE: A- STATUS: Retain and all females have his babie...we need father son Porpies

#42 Jared Petrenko: Thought he may debut given his upgrade. Looks a good half backer to take over McLeods role. Needs weight and more pre-season work but the toolds are there. He's silky and has dash.

GRADE: B- STATUS: Ratain, already promoted

#44 Nathan Bock: Star, hardly beaten and provided run. Acts as our QB in defense and sets it up. Well done on a good year Bocky. Does have to work on decision making sometimes.

GRADE: A STATUS: Retain

I'm not sure on the 3 rookies and how they have gone. I know Curnow has had difficulty breaking into the seniors and has a massive tank, that's about it.

Recruiting Staff: Well done fellas, got a good crop in the draft last year and i'm looking forward to the draft and trading period to see what's in store.

Adelaide Crowd: Rubbish, pathetic....D+...Port F

Departing:

Bassett
Biglands
Jericho
McGregor
Massie
Shirley
Campbell
Gallman
Goodwin

with Petrenko upgraded and 1-2 rookies delisted, that gives us 8 picks in the live draft and 2-3 in the Rookie.

Now that's a bloody long post but oh well, hope you enjoyed and remember it's just my opinion, it will vary between you all if you agree. Add you own please.
 
Player Review

1. Nick Gill
Games played = 9
Rating = 5/10
Verdict: Probably delist. Gives his all and is great at leading and marking but can't kick to save himself. His body is also suspect and at 26, you'd say that he is not going to improve in the areas he struggles with.

2. Brad Moran
Games played = 7
Rating = 6/10
Verdict: Keep on list. Didn't pull on a crows jumper until late in the season and showed something (in the minor rounds at least). His 4 goal game against Carlton was the highlight. Still a work in progress but has potential.

3. Kris Massie
Games played = 12
Rating = 6/10
Verdict: 50/50. Still in our best 22 but may make way for Otten. Had some excellent games and some shockers this year.

4. Kurt Tippett
Games played = 19
Rating = 6.5/10
Verdict: Retain. Gave us a big body in the forward 50 and always provided a contest. His real challenge is to improve his leading and kicking. A lot to like about his first full season.

5. Scott Thompson
Games played = 23
Rating = 6.5/10
Verdict: Not captaincy material but still a gun midfielder. Combined some BOG games (like against Richmond) with some garbage ones. Seems to lose the plot when umps pay HTB against him.

6. Jon Griffin
Games played = 12
Rating = 5/10
Verdict: Retain. Was impressive early in the year while Maric was in the SANFL. Struggled badly after injuring his hip. My concern is that him and Maric don't seem to combine well in the same team as both are 1st rucks, not backups.

7. Nathan van Berlo
Games played = 23
Rating = 7/10
Verdict: Candidate for captaincy. Really worked on attacking side of his game this year. Learning how to beat the tags is the next step for him to become elite.

8. Nathan Bassett
Games played = 23
Rating = 7/10
Verdict: Retired. Was awful early after being thuggishly knocked out by that effing-sea Matt Thomas. Form got better and better as season wore on and was one of our best in the last 6-8 weeks.

9. Tyson Edwards
Games played = 23
Rating = 6.5/10
Verdict: 1 more year. Apart from 1 or 2 bad games, was pretty solid all year. Provided the classy finishing skills when required.

10. Jarrhan Jacky
Games played = 3
Rating = 3/10
Verdict: Played 3 games in his first year which is not too bad but still looks a long way off AFL standard.

11. Mick "Chopper" Doughty
Games played = 23
Rating = 8.5/10
Verdict: Deserves another year. Was courageous and reliable all year. Much to like about the way he goes about his game.

12. Robert Shirley
Games played = 21
Rating = 6/10
Verdict: 50/50 to retain. Appalling early on and was dropped. To his credit he came back strongly and had an excellent 2nd half of the year. Probably deserves another go.

14. David Mackay
Games played = 19
Rating = 7/10
Verdict: The real surprise packet of the year. Always makes his possessions count and has pace and a long kick. Has a lot of class about him.

15. Brad Symes
Games played = 16
Rating = 7/10
Verdict: Has performed above expectations this year. Has tons of courage and can win the contested ball. Disposal still an issue though.

16. Ken McGregor
Games played = 7
Rating = 1/10
Verdict: Gone. Game has passed him by.

17. Bernie Vince
Games played = 21
Rating = 7/10
Verdict: Breakout year for Bernie. Got tired and injured as the year went on but overall, a very good year for him.

18. Graham Johncock
Games played = 18
Rating = 8/10 first half, 4/10 2nd half.
Verdict: Absolute gun when firing. Has off field issues which affect his game at times but we need him fit and firing.

20. Ivan Maric
Games played = 16
Rating = 7.5/10
Verdict: Looked crap in the MMC. Made to earn his spot after that. Got better and better as the year progressed. Clearly our no 1 ruckman and adds aggression to the side. Loves to kick a goal.

21. Chris Knights
Games played = 16
Rating = 5.5/10
Verdict: Didn't go backwards but didn't go forward this year. Has trouble keeping fit for a whole season. Racks up the disposals but needs to ditch the high loopy kicks around his body.

23. Andrew Mcleod
Games played = 21
Rating = 6/10
Verdict: 1 more year probably. On his day can still dominate but that knee is deteriorating slowly. Seemed a bit distracted at times too.

24. Brett Burton
Games played = 13
Rating = 8/10 (before injury)
Verdict: Given a 1 year deal as he recovers from knee reconstruction. Can he make it back next year?

25. Ben Rutten
Games played = 22
Rating = 5/10
Verdict: Great first month but disappointing after and including that dream team load of crap. Is uncharacteristically wasting more disposals now than ever.

26. Richard Douglas
Games played = 22
Rating = 6/10
Verdict: Looks as though he is going to burst out at any time but is still to take the next step. Next year will be very interesting for him.

27. Scott Stevens
Games played = 23
Rating = 7/10
Verdict: Mr Reliable. Does the job week in week out at either end.

30. Luke Jericho
Games played = 7
Rating = 3/10
Verdict: Time to go. Was good against WC and Richmond (5 goals) but all that was forgotten with the worst game by a crow in the showdown loss.

31. Bryce Campbell
Games played = 7
Rating = 4/10
Verdict: Will be cut. Does very little wrong but just doesn't get enough touches. Lack of game time doesn't help.

33. Brent Reilly
Games played = 8
Rating = 1/10
Verdict: Disastrous season wrecked by injury and poor form. Absolutely has to get his body right for next year or faces extinction.

36. Simon Goodwin
Games played = 23
Rating = 5/10
Verdict: Was it a bad injury or has age caught up with him? Either way he was a shadow of his former self this year. Needs to relinquish the captaincy to concentrate on getting his body right.

40. Jason Porplyzia
Games played = 18
Rating = 8/10
Verdict: Seems unable to comprehend what pain means. Played on with a shoulder looser than late night "pedestrians" on Hansen Road. Absolute gun.

44. Nathan Bock
Games played = 23
Rating = 9/10
Verdict: Outstanding season for him. Is the best CHB in the land. A smokey for the captaincy.
 
Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Crowboy#32 said:
Gill has to be under big time pressure
Click to expand...

I like Gill, but he reminds me too much of Perrie. Tries his heart out, his best is fantastic, but his standard is below average.

I think the call on Gill will show how serious we are - if he stays, I'd say we're accepting mediocrity.
 
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