Preview Official Thread - Round 1 - Melbourne v Brisbane Lions

[cefalu_instinct]

Beautiful day for training and guess who is joining in!

Who is it? (can't see the photo too well on my phone)

 

[Hollow Knight]

And it's an absolute travesty that well into the great JB's decline his not unexpected absence throws us once again into total dissaray. This is not a problem that began this season.

Agreed. Depth is the issue here. Voss simply doesn't much to choose from at the moment in the KPP tall department.

People can say that it's Voss's fault (ala trade week 09') but I think that's a little unfair. Sure we lost Hendo but Staker came in and came in and gave us a genuine tall option forward and back. It really was an inspired bit of recruiting that. His injury is just as unfortunate and damaging to our list as Brown's. Clark the ingrate skipping town didn't help either.

We really are now paying the proce for poor drafting between 2003-2007. whatboutbob and I were discussing that on Google Chat the other day. Re-reading those drafts is painful stuff.

 

[Hollow Knight]

One question that has been floated on the Dees board regarding Merrett:

Will he really line up forward? Frawley is likely to get him if so, and should (with all respect to the Big Red Fire Engine) account for him pretty well. Won't that leave a bit of a hole in your backline? Melbourne have a terrible forward line when the ball hits the deck, but our ability in the air is very good with a lot of height and athleticism. Would have thought he'd be first picked to take either Clark, Martin or Watts?

That's the risk Voss is taking, it is an issue which has divided many on this board.

He has more faith in Maguire (who has been pretty good in the pre-season) and Patfull to hold the fort down back in Merrett's absence than he does in our forward options to create a contest and kick a score in Brown and Staker's absence.

As such, Merrett going forward just scrapes through on Voss's cost/benefit analysis. I get the feeling Voss isn't exactly rapt at being presented with this "robbing Peter to pay Paul" dilemma but genuinely feels it is his best use of available resources.

 

[Duritz]

Left field, but Goose has played well up forward at STK given limited forays. Kicked 6 in the Saints ressies when half baked after an injury lay off.

 

[morsie]

I would much prefer to see our guys playing in their best positions and building the team for the future even if we cop a few hidings.I am not interested in running repairs which result in scraping a few wins and some honourable losses.Quite happy for Voss to come out and say that is the philosophy if he chose that path.At least we would be able to see the direction we were heading.As others have said we are treading water waiting the return of our captain .This is not IMHO the way to progress as he is in the wind down phase of his career in any event.Cornelius and Lisle et al need to be played , tested and either found to be up to it or if not we move on.If not I can see us winning a few games but not building sound foundations.

 

[cjwalkley]

One question that has been floated on the Dees board regarding Merrett:

Will he really line up forward? Frawley is likely to get him if so, and should (with all respect to the Big Red Fire Engine) account for him pretty well. Won't that leave a bit of a hole in your backline? Melbourne have a terrible forward line when the ball hits the deck, but our ability in the air is very good with a lot of height and athleticism. Would have thought he'd be first picked to take either Clark, Martin or Watts?

I imagine Voss is happy with Clark/McKeever, Martin/Maguire and Watts/Patful. While the Lions aren't expecting Merrett to kick a bag, he will be able to use his strength to ensure the ball comes to ground, or not allow Frawley to peel off and assist in other contests. The Lions I assume will give plenty of different looks through the forward line during the game, with a mix of smalls and talls at different times.

If Melbourne get off to a good start, then they may power away to a good win. If it's still tight in the second half, I give the edge to the Lions as all the 22 have had an uninterrupted preseason.

 

[cjwalkley]

Who is it? (can't see the photo too well on my phone)

Browny. Did about 15 minutes of running pre-session and all drills during the session, then about 20 minutes of constant leading and marking post session. Looked a million dollars.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Cornelius and Lisle et al need to be played , tested and either found to be up to it or if not we move on.If not I can see us winning a few games but not building sound foundations.

I can understand this argument but I feel like the deficiencies in their games arent ones that necessarily need senior football to iron out.

We know Cornelius can hold his own in a contest against senior footballers. His glaring deficiencies (despite making some progress this pre-season) are fitness, workrate and defensive endeavour... these can be ironed out in the reserves just as easily as in the seniors.

I think someone like Retzlaff is more in the place where his development might benefit from senior football. He has the fitness and work rate fundamentals down pat, now he just needs to learn how to channel it into game impact. That is why I postulated putting him in my side. I think even with his deficiencies, he workrate would allow him to provide a marking target at CHF and straighten us up a bit (kinda like what we did with Wayde Mills for a brief period).

As a previous poster mentioned though, we are in short-term damage control to mitigate the loss of Brown. Once he comes back, I think we'll see a more traditional forward structure and guys like Lisle, Karnezis, Cornelius and Retzlaff may get a chance to develop and learn alongside him.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Browny. Did about 15 minutes of running pre-session and all drills during the session, then about 20 minutes of constant leading and marking post session. Looked a million dollars.

Did he still look earthbound or was he managing to get his frame off the ground?

 

[Grimreepah]

I would much prefer to see our guys playing in their best positions and building the team for the future even if we cop a few hidings.I am not interested in running repairs which result in scraping a few wins and some honourable losses.Quite happy for Voss to come out and say that is the philosophy if he chose that path.At least we would be able to see the direction we were heading.As others have said we are treading water waiting the return of our captain .This is not IMHO the way to progress as he is in the wind down phase of his career in any event.Cornelius and Lisle et al need to be played , tested and either found to be up to it or if not we move on.If not I can see us winning a few games but not building sound foundations.

It may not be considered that people only playing in one position is the best thing for building the team for the future.

 

[cjwalkley]

Agreed. Depth is the issue here. Voss simply doesn't much to choose from at the moment in the KPP tall department.

People can say that it's Voss's fault (ala trade week 09') but I think that's a little unfair. Sure we lost Hendo but Staker came in and came in and gave us a genuine tall option forward and back. It really was an inspired bit of recruiting that. His injury is just as unfortunate and damaging to our list as Brown's. Clark the ingrate skipping town didn't help either.

We really are now paying the proce for poor drafting between 2003-2007. whatboutbob and I were discussing that on Google Chat the other day. Re-reading those drafts is painful stuff.

Yep.

This is where Spaanderman should be aiming for his third Coleman medal!

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yep.

This is where Spaanderman should be aiming for his third Coleman medal!

Yep, along with Hooper well established as a premier small forward and Albert Proud a dominant wrecking ball at the stoppages.

*sigh*

 

[cjwalkley]

Did he still look earthbound or was he managing to get his frame off the ground?

Actually jumping into the ball and taking the ball out in front. I have a lot of confidence on his return he will be able to again run the gorillas into submission, but still out muscle the lighter backs.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Actually jumping into the ball and taking the ball out in front. I have a lot of confidence on his return he will be able to again run the gorillas into submission, but still out muscle the lighter backs.

This post has cheered me up immensely.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I am intrigued by our line up, and will be interested to see how it actually lines up on the day, and how it works.

I think the idea of McKeever, playing in the same line as our two most experienced backmen, will help his development and positioning, though I do wonder if that could have been done through the preseason.

I like Polec and Hanley on the wing and rich at HB, i think it gives us the option of running through the lines, or using Rich's kicking to go quickly into the forward line.

That being the case though, i would have thought someone like Acorn who is a good mark on the lead might have been an option, but I accept none of the possible KPF's really stpped up during th NAB.

Surprised to not see Karnezis there too.

Ultimately I will be watching closely. I am slightly underwhelmed by it but would suggest that is because it looks so much like a team from round 22 last year, and I was hoping for more. Having said that there are names In this side that I will accept being in our round one side, Sheldon, Stiller, McGuire. If they are still in our best 22 by the bye week though, it may not bode well...

Overall this seems to be a team picked for this opposition at this ground. Patty K is not there because his form in the NAB cup wasn't good enough. At Visy he looked slow and particularly at the G could be found wanting. He is better suited to the Gabba and Etihad IMO.
As much as I desperately want Ace and Lisle and Retzy to succeed, Voss is being good to his word and not playing people who haven't earned the right. Trouble for me is that he doesn't apply the same standards to Sheldon who I think is on borrowed time both in the team and on the list.
Let's face it, at this stage in our development we don't have an A grade KPF after JB so we just have to accept it and go with what we've got.
We appear to have gone for run & pace as a means of negating our lack of height up forward and frankly given the lack of other options I'm comfortable with that. If all our mids fire we can cut this mob to pieces.
The biggest surprises to me (having assumed Sheldon would be picked) are Hudson and Bewick who have played the last couple of weeks in the ressies. Again, it is probably horses for courses but you have to think that Billy L had done enough to get the nod and he can play forward whereas Huddo can't and that means we have only two other genuine interchanges on what will be a hot day. Maybe the plan is that he will play a majority of the first half and then be subbed out.
While I like Bewick, particularly on the wide open spaces, I thought he must have gone backwards in the coaches eyes given his demotion to the twos. Just shows that things go on that we don't know about and I like it that we aren't totally predictable.
As for Harwood, well I just don't get it. Team balance is one thing but if ever a guy was well matched to the opposition for this game it is him. He is probably our only big-bodied mid to match it with Moloney, Jones, Magner and Bate. Blacky could get crunched by that lot. I know he isn't the fastest going around but it still mistifies me that he isn't more favoured.
I will be there and for me it isn't the end of the world if we lose, more how we compete. If things go badly, the much proclaimed greater depth will be sorely tested.
Go Lions

 

[whatboutbob]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but seeing as TBD brought it up earlier...

When people are bemoaning the state of our list I tend to have a scan of the '03 to '07 drafts to remind myself why we have a paucity of 23-27yo players:

Year	Pick	Player	Type
2003	18	L Spaanderman	*National
2003	23	Matthew Moody	*National
2003	33	Jed Adcock	*National
2003	49	Tom Logan	*National
2003	61	M Rischitelli	*National
2003	16	Daniel Pratt	*Rookie
2003	32	Matthew Pardew	*Rookie
2003	47	Josh Drummond	*Rookie
2003	61	Jacob Furfaro	*Rookie
2003	67	Leigh Ryswyk	*Rookie
2003	70	Jeremy Stiller	*Rookie
			
2004	18	Cameron Wood	National
2004	27	Patrick Garner	*National
2004	45	Justin Sherman	*National
2004	50	Jayden Attard	*National
2004	64	Luke Forsyth	*National
2004	15	Travis Baird	*Rookie
2004	60	Josh Drummond	*Rookie
2004	62	Marcus Allan	*Rookie
2004	64	William Hamill	*Rookie
2004	65	Martin Pask	*Rookie
2004	66	Scott Harding	*Rookie
			
2005	9	Mitchell Clark	National
2005	25	Wayde Mills	*National
2005	41	Rhan Hooper	*National
2005	56	Joel Patfull	*National
2005	6	Ben Fixter	*Pre-Season
2005	6	Jason Roe	*Rookie
2005	22	Leonard Clark	*Rookie
2005	37	Luke Forsyth	*Rookie
2005	49	Cheynee Stiller	*Rookie
			
2006	4	M Leuenberger	National
2006	22	Albert Proud	*National
2006	34	Chris Schmidt	*National
2006	38	James Hawksley	*National
2006	54	Matt Tyler	*National
2006	70	Sam Sheldon	*National
2006	4	Anthony Corrie	*Rookie
2006	20	Scott Clouston	*Rookie
2006	35	Daniel Dzufer	*Rookie
2006	48	Haydyn Kiel	*Rookie
2006	57	Joel Tippett	*Rookie
2006	61	William Hamill	*Rookie
			
2007	8	L Henderson	National
2007	25	Tom Collier	*National
2007	41	J Polkinghorne	*National
2007	52	Bradd Dalziell	*National
2007	56	Matt Austin	*National
2007	7	Phil Smith	*Rookie
2007	23	Patrick Garner	*Rookie
2007	38	Pearce Hanley	*Rookie

But then, after that glum reading, to cheer myself up, I proceed...:

2008	7	Daniel Rich	*National
2008	25	Jack Redden	*National
2008	41	Todd Banfield	*National
2008	57	Aaron Cornelius	*National
2008	69	Bart McCulloch	*National
2008	81	Kieran King	*National
2008	5	Tom Rockliff	*Pre-Season
2008	7	Daniel Murray	*Rookie
2008	66	Adam Spackman	*Rookie
2008	77	Daniel Dzufer	*Rookie
2008	82	Joel Tippett	*Rookie
			
2009	27	Callum Bartlett	National
2009	47	Ryan Harwood	*National
2009	73	Jesse O'Brien	*National
2009	84	Bryce Retzlaff	*National
2009	91	Matthew Maguire	*National
2009	95	Pearce Hanley	*National
2009	16	Mitchell Golby	*Rookie
2009	32	Josh Dyson	*Rookie
2009	67	Nial McKeever	*Rookie
2009	74	Sean Yoshiura	*Rookie
2009	76	Claye Beams	*Rookie
2009	78	Broc McCauley	*Rookie
			
2010	5	Jared Polec	National
2010	25	P Karnezis	*National
2010	28	Ryan Lester	*National
2010	32	Joshua Green	*National
2010	65	Claye Beams	*National
2010	13	Brad Harvey	*Rookie
2010	30	Bart McCulloch	*Rookie
2010	47	Albert Proud	*Rookie
2010	62	Broc McCauley	*Rookie
			
2011	8	Billy Longer	National
2011	12	Sam Docherty	*National
2011	30	Elliot Yeo	*National
2011	47	Patrick Wearden	*National
2011	69	Mitchell Golby	*National
2011	4	Justin Clarke	*Rookie
2011	22	Stephen Wrigley	*Rookie
2011	40	Jack Crisp	*Rookie
2011	57	Richard Newell	*Rookie
2011	96	Sam Michael	*Rookie

 

[Grimreepah]

The biggest surprises to me (having assumed Sheldon would be picked) are Hudson and Bewick who have played the last couple of weeks in the ressies. Again, it is probably horses for courses but you have to think that Billy L had done enough to get the nod and he can play forward whereas Huddo can't and that means we have only two other genuine interchanges on what will be a hot day. Maybe the plan is that he will play a majority of the first half and then be subbed out.
While I like Bewick, particularly on the wide open spaces, I thought he must have gone backwards in the coaches eyes given his demotion to the twos. Just shows that things go on that we don't know about and I like it that we aren't totally predictable.

I think it was a case of Bewick overtaking another player in the final week, rather than him being planned for round 1 all along.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think it was a case of Bewick overtaking another player in the final week, rather than him being planned for round 1 all along.

Yeah, on reflection you're probably right, possibly O'Brien who did seem to taper off a bit.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Bewick's game vs Morningside was sublime and I really think it got Voss's attention. When he plays well, Bewick really adds something to our mix. He really is a natural wingman who gets in the right spaces and runs all day. Has the Dalziell knack of finding the ball, but (unlike Dalziell) has attacking intent and tries to do something with it.

 

[whatboutbob]

Has the Dalziell knack of finding the ball, but (unlike Dalziell) has attacking intent and tries to do something with it.

"Tries" being the operative word there. How was his disposal? Would be great if he has cleaned it up.

 

[POBT]

Clark the ingrate skipping town didn't help either.

I said last year that losing Clark would set our development back a couple of years. Don't get me wrong - by the end of the season, I was glad to see the back of him but he left a hole that we can't fill right now.

 

[Hollow Knight]

"Tries" being the operative word there. How was his disposal? Would be great if he has cleaned it up.

Ranging from average to goodish. Generally neat, if not devestatingly damaging. My previous point being that he actively seeks to be more than just a link in a chain of handballs.

 

[GingerGreatness]

LOL.

Merrett is shortest odds of the Lions to kick first goal (@ $11).

Dammit! My inside information all down the tubes!!!!

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I said last year that losing Clark would set our development back a couple of years. Don't get me wrong - by the end of the season, I was glad to see the back of him but he left a hole that we can't fill right now.

When I said earler that it wouldn't be the end of things if we lost tomorrow, I should have added "provided Clark doesn't have a blinder"

 

[Haso]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but seeing as TBD brought it up earlier...

When people are bemoaning the state of our list I tend to have a scan of the '03 to '07 drafts to remind myself why we have a paucity of 23-27yo players

But then, after that glum reading, to cheer myself up, I proceed...

Well isn't this a rollercoaster of emotions. The upswinging trajectory (as far as we can tell at the moment) is very encouraging though.

There have been some top quality posts in this thread. In particular this one for analysis of the past few years, and Quigley's interpretation of our team for this week. Highly enjoyable thread.