Our Best 22 boys for round 1 2010

[knightwheelrqr]

I would like to see more of Sharrod Wellingham.

I'm probably on the other side of the fence of Wellingham.

Yes I see him playing round 1 and yes Mick loves him. But in my view he is not best 22 material. On his day he can play well for periods but he just doesn't put together a full 4 quarters.

His only notable game was also Marty Clarke's best and that was the significant 86 point win in over Geelong a few years back. That was probably his closest to a 4 quarter effort and that game I was particularly impressed with, but that was a few years ago and while he is improving I think there are players who deserve to be played ahead of him.

If I was coach I would play him round 1 as he is probably suited to playing the Western Bull Dogs. However I would certainly be watching his game closely and have him under the microscope as there are other players who are pushing and want to make the 22. So if he doesn't put together a full 4 quarters I would send him to the VFL where I would be looking for him to put together a series of 4-5 consistent 4 quarter efforts.

Yes that may sound harsh, but that is the level we should be at at this stage with a very much established list.

 

[Markfs]

I cant see how anyone could think Rusling is going to make the team before round 5. I dont think Buckley has deserved a spot in the 25. I would normally have picked Leroy but this is WB and they have a lot of smaller blokes.

i'm just wrapped at the depth we have...

 

[Quicky]

Has Reid done enough to get a game? I think not... plus the dogs only have 1 tall forward in hall... simple no need for a tall chb against dogs.

obrien maxwell can fill that role..

wellingham is not in our best 22 period. and he is not a defender..he doesnt have a defensive bone in his body

I think Reid has the mobility to play on some of the Doggies medium talls. Not sure who they'd be now as Johnson and Hahn look like missing. Could be a good match up on Hill for instance. I'd be more concerned about his experience in such an important and tough game. But he has to get it sometime.

I'm probably on the other side of the fence of Wellingham.

Yes I see him playing round 1 and yes Mick loves him. But in my view he is not best 22 material. On his day he can play well for periods but he just doesn't put together a full 4 quarters.

His only notable game was also Marty Clarke's best and that was the significant 86 point win in over Geelong a few years back. That was probably his closest to a 4 quarter effort and that game I was particularly impressed with, but that was a few years ago and while he is improving I think there are players who deserve to be played ahead of him.

If I was coach I would play him round 1 as he is probably suited to playing the Western Bull Dogs. However I would certainly be watching his game closely and have him under the microscope as there are other players who are pushing and want to make the 22. So if he doesn't put together a full 4 quarters I would send him to the VFL where I would be looking for him to put together a series of 4-5 consistent 4 quarter efforts.

Yes that may sound harsh, but that is the level we should be at at this stage with a very much established list.

Thats drawinng a long bow. He was excellent in the Adelaide final IIRC. He also had a great start to the season last year before tapering off. He adds one thing our midfield really lacks which is pace and he has more preseasons and experience behind him that some of our other young midfielders. He's still a fringe player no doubt but he has definitely played more than one good game.

 

[robertg22]

Toovey Prestigiacomo Goldsack
Shaw Maxwell O'Brien
Beams Swan Didak
Sidebottom Cloke Fraser
Medhurst Anthony Davis
Jolly Pendlebury Ball
McCarthy L Brown Thomas Lockyer
E: Macaffer O'Bree Wellingham

Dogs have a bunch of medium forwards so Goldsack is required for round 1 IMO. Would not go with Reid or N Brown for round 1, one will definitely be required against teams like Saints, Hawks & Lions who have 2 big key forwards but not clear on which one at this stage. Goldsack's inclusion allows O'Brien to play more freely, pre season indications have been that he is becoming more and more inclined to break the lines with his run and carry style.
The midfield is tough to pick, with 4-5 guys missing out who would have legitimate claims on getting a game. For me McCarthy is in our best 22 - he is a classy unit, good inside and out, kicks goals & moves pretty well. Just can not bring myself to pick O'Bree - has been a great servant of our club but against teams like the Dogs we are just going to get carved up through the centre with too many plodders running around. The inclusion of Ball pretty much renders him obsolete IMO.
Forward line seems a bit small but would just rest the ruckmen down in a pocket because both are capable of taking a mark and kicking a goal for us. Hate to say it but Leigh Brown has a role in the team, lol. He just gives us flexibility down back (if they rest Minson down there & we are stretched, throw Leroy back), forward (pinch hit to force a match up change down back & give Fraser or Jolly a rest on the bench instead of forward) and can ruck if one of them go down.
Thomas is not assured of his spot in the team and will need to consistently perform each week to hold on - here's hoping he does.

 

[always right]

Toovey Prestigiacomo Goldsack
Shaw Maxwell O'Brien
Beams Swan Didak
Sidebottom Cloke Fraser
Medhurst Anthony Davis
Jolly Pendlebury Ball
McCarthy L Brown Thomas Lockyer
E: Macaffer O'Bree Wellingham

If that's how you line up, I've had a crack at matching our likely line-up.

Toovey Prestigiacomo Goldsack
Aker Hall Hill

Shaw Maxwell O'Brien
Higgins Everitt Murphy

Beams Swan Didak
Cross Boyd Picken

Sidebottom Cloke Fraser
Gilbee Morris Williams

Medhurst Anthony Davis
Hargrave Lake Harbrow


Jolly Pendlebury Ball
Hudson Griffen Cooney

McCarthy L Brown Thomas Lockyer
Moles Minson Johnno Giansiracusa

E: Macaffer O'Bree Wellingham
Addison Wood Roughead


For the purpose of the exercise I've included Johnno who is likely to play off the bench. You've got a very strong line up and I fear we are going to really miss Hahn and most likely Ward. 50:50 contest if you ask me with midfield the key....as usual.

The biggest dangers as I see them are...Fraser (smarter than Williams), Davis (if Picken goes to Didak we don't have a great match-up for him), Swan (Boyd will have to play tight) and Pendlebury (no great match-up...perhaps Cross). We also need to make sure Shaw isn't given free rein to run off half back.

 

[Invigoration]

Goldsack won't play round 1.

I think one of Sidebottom or Beams may miss in favour of playing both Wellingham and McCarthy, it's a MM sort of thing to do.

Good to see a few of the fringe boys really pushing hard for a spot though. McCarthy, Wellingham, Macaffer, Reid and Goldsack will all be pushing hard for selection in the first couple of rounds.

 

[robertg22]

Goldsack won't play round 1.

I think one of Sidebottom or Beams will miss in favour of playing both Wellingham and McCarthy

Actually, I think you're right. Dogs seemingly losing Johnson & Hahn reduces the need to play the Sack.

 

[Optimax]

Actually, I think you're right. Dogs seemingly losing Johnson & Hahn reduces the need to play the Sack.

he is also recovering from a virus of some sort

 

[hellfire]

I don't think Goldsack will play round 1, as others have said, given the medium forwards that will likely miss for the Dogs. We certainly look as good, if not better, on paper because of their outs. But "on paper" has never really determined the result. We really need Anthony to work hard to at least break even with Lake, that will arguably be the key match-up. We could drop Jolly forward to stretch them, and force Lake on to him, but I'd rather see Anthony beat him.

I also think it's about time we started working hard to free up Didak around the stoppages, like Geelong do for Ablett. He is our best user of the ball, and we need him firing to beat sides like this. I want to see a lot of blocking to get Picken off his back.

 

[The Dawes]

Toovey Prestigiacomo Goldsack
Shaw Maxwell O'Brien
Beams Swan Didak
Sidebottom Cloke Fraser
Medhurst Anthony Davis
Jolly Pendlebury Ball
McCarthy L Brown Thomas Lockyer
E: Macaffer O'Bree Wellingham

Dogs have a bunch of medium forwards so Goldsack is required for round 1 IMO. Would not go with Reid or N Brown for round 1, one will definitely be required against teams like Saints, Hawks & Lions who have 2 big key forwards but not clear on which one at this stage. Goldsack's inclusion allows O'Brien to play more freely, pre season indications have been that he is becoming more and more inclined to break the lines with his run and carry style.
The midfield is tough to pick, with 4-5 guys missing out who would have legitimate claims on getting a game. For me McCarthy is in our best 22 - he is a classy unit, good inside and out, kicks goals & moves pretty well. Just can not bring myself to pick O'Bree - has been a great servant of our club but against teams like the Dogs we are just going to get carved up through the centre with too many plodders running around. The inclusion of Ball pretty much renders him obsolete IMO.
Forward line seems a bit small but would just rest the ruckmen down in a pocket because both are capable of taking a mark and kicking a goal for us. Hate to say it but Leigh Brown has a role in the team, lol. He just gives us flexibility down back (if they rest Minson down there & we are stretched, throw Leroy back), forward (pinch hit to force a match up change down back & give Fraser or Jolly a rest on the bench instead of forward) and can ruck if one of them go down.
Thomas is not assured of his spot in the team and will need to consistently perform each week to hold on - here's hoping he does.

While I agree with your reasoning I think we need to be realistic. Barring injury, there's no way that Shane O'Bree will not play round 1.

Also reckon you may have gone too tall, I would leave out Leroy and include Wellingham, we will need all our runners up and about against the Dogs and with Leroy in, I can see us being one runner short.

Not sure what they will do about Beams either, if he has been disciplined for a late night, I wonder if the club will automatically re-instate him for round 1, they may feel he's got more ground to make up than just avoiding a trip to Mount Gambier as punishment.

Overall it might be... in: O'Bree and Wellingham and out: Beams and Brown.

 

[robertg22]

While I agree with your reasoning I think we need to be realistic. Barring injury, there's no way that Shane O'Bree will not play round 1.

Also reckon you may have gone too tall, I would leave out Leroy and include Wellingham, we will need all our runners up and about against the Dogs and with Leroy in, I can see us being one runner short.

Not sure what they will do about Beams either, if he has been disciplined for a late night, I wonder if the club will automatically re-instate him for round 1, they may feel he's got more ground to make up than just avoiding a trip to Mount Gambier as punishment.

Overall it might be... in: O'Bree and Wellingham and out: Beams and Brown.

From what I wrote earlier I would probably include Wellingham instead of Goldsack. I didn't really consider their missing players.
Aside from the reportedly minor indiscretion from Beams last week, he's had a ripping pre season and is in great shape. I think whatever punishment has been handed out so far (and it's obviously a non issue, we would have heard a bit more about it by now otherwise) is sufficient - he is almost certainly in our best 22. The Dogs are almost the benchmark side in the league with a devastating midfield so we would be hurting our chances to win the game by not including him.
I don't know that we're too tall there. Only one KPP on the bench and 3 smalls. You're probably right about O'Bree though I just don't want to see us give up too much pace through the middle. Having said that including Wellingham helps us in that regard.

 

[Histrionics]

I'll give it a crack,

B: O'Brien Presti Toovey

HB: Shaw Maxwell Wellingham

C: Beams Swan McCarthy

HF: D.Thomas Cloke Didak

F: Medders Anthony Davis

R: Jolly Ball Pendles

Int: Fraser Lockyer O'Bree L.Brown

Emg: Sidebottom Reid B.Johnson

Thoughts?

 

[soho]

the problem i see with collingwoods depth / unsure best 22, is that players wont be able to get match fit if we only call them up to play when required (horses for courses style)

IMO, its best to pick a 22 at the start of the year, then make as few changes as possible... players need to get used to playing with each other, get games under their wings before they can deliver consistent football...

 

[hellfire]

the problem i see with collingwoods depth / unsure best 22, is that players wont be able to get match fit if we only call them up to play when required (horses for courses style)

IMO, its best to pick a 22 at the start of the year, then make as few changes as possible... players need to get used to playing with each other, get games under their wings before they can deliver consistent football...

That would also create complacency, as fringe players who are inside this designed 22 you speak of would feel safer with their spot. Fringe players outside the 22 wouldn't have the same spark to push for selection, could possibly be discontented enough to request a trade at the end of the year. We need depth snapping at the heels of our starting side, it inspires improvement from everyone and makes us far more dangerous and versatile.

 

[hellfire]

I'll give it a crack,

B: O'Brien Presti Toovey

HB: Shaw Maxwell Wellingham

C: Beams Swan McCarthy

HF: D.Thomas Cloke Didak

F: Medders Anthony Davis

R: Jolly Ball Pendles

Int: Fraser Lockyer O'Bree L.Brown

Emg: Sidebottom Reid B.Johnson

Thoughts?

I really can't see any reason to start McCarthy ahead of Sidebottom.

 

[soho]

That would also create complacency, as fringe players who are inside this designed 22 you speak of would feel safer with their spot. Fringe players outside the 22 wouldn't have the same spark to push for selection, could possibly be discontented enough to request a trade at the end of the year. We need depth snapping at the heels of our starting side, it inspires improvement from everyone and makes us far more dangerous and versatile.

i dont agree with that...

i dont think players think along the lines of: "oh well, im going to get selected next week anyway, so it doesnt matter if i dont run hard..."

players want to perform for a number of reasons: pride, competitive, fame, money etc... they dont simply want to perform at a level that gets them selected for next week's game...

i also dont think players can just walk into an AFL side after playing in the VFL and be expected to deliver in their first game... thats too much to ask... the gap is too big.. they have to get used to the speed of the game, and to the standard of football before they can start to contribute week in week out...

 

[hellfire]

sorry, but i dont agree with that...

i dont think players think along the lines of: "oh well, im going to get selected next week anyway, so it doesnt matter if i dont run hard..."

players want to perform for a number of reasons: pride, competitive, fame, money etc... they dont simply want to perform at a level that gets them selected for next week's game...

i also dont think players can just walk into an AFL side after playing in the VFL and be expected to deliver in their first game... thats too much to ask... the gap is too big.. they have to get used to the speed of the game, and to the standard of football before they can start to contribute week in week out...

Well we will have to agree to disagree, because I certainly think being formally assured of a spot creates complacency. And while I do agree you can't expect the VFL-AFL transition to click automatically, especially for youngsters, if they are quality players you will generally see them adapt quickly [not necessarily one week though]. Each to their own.

 

[Swooop]

I'll give it a crack,

B: O'Brien Presti Toovey

HB: Shaw Maxwell Wellingham

C: Beams Swan McCarthy

HF: D.Thomas Cloke Didak

F: Medders Anthony Davis

R: Jolly Ball Pendles

Int: Fraser Lockyer O'Bree L.Brown

Emg: Sidebottom Reid B.Johnson

Thoughts?

I like this team
Back six lots of pace that you'll need against Doggies.
Centreline same, Mccarthy, mmm, prob has done enough, to get in.
Forward six, lots of pace and class around the two KPFs
Ruck division...drool
Bench, experience++ and good allround coverage there.
Think MM will pick O'Bree, though I'd go with Sidebottom personally.
He'll probably play BJ also, possibly at JMac or Wellinghams expense.

I may be wrong about this, but the times Wellingham plays, it seems to me, we always look fast, tackle with ferocity and have a high win-loss ratio. Has anyone else noticed this or am I off the mark here??

 

[magpie chocko]

I see Toovey is picked in most peoples best 22, I know he is improving with every game but he still worries me in a one on one contest under presure. What are your thoughts

 

[hellfire]

I see Toovey is picked in most peoples best 22, I know he is improving with every game but he still worries me in a one on one contest under presure. What are your thoughts

That's when I'm most confident in him. It's when he is about to drop the ball to boot that I close my eyes. Give him the ball and tell him to run and he's great! Leave him 1 on 1 with any small forward and he'll usually do very well. But his kicking is where he struggles, and his decision making at times.

 

[doppleganger]

If that's how you line up, I've had a crack at matching our likely line-up.

Aker Hall Hill
Higgins Everitt Murphy

If that is the dogs forward line id play Reid...perfect match-up for Everitt IMO.
Presti to Hall
Then it becomes interesting and can switch Heater, Harry, Max and Tooves between the dogs flanks n pockets.

Cross Boyd Picken
Cross and Ball may go head to head
Boyd would prob go up against Pendles
Picken to lock down Didak

Sidebottom Cloke Fraser
Gilbee Morris Williams
Pretty much agree with this line....

Medhurst Anthony Davis
Hargrave Lake Harbrow
And this line too, very even match-ups.....Fraser perhaps our chance to cause a bit of havoc on Williams??

Jolly Pendlebury Ball
Hudson Griffen Cooney
Jolly will hold his own all year....happy with the ruck
We dont really have many taggers in the team....perhaps Thomas can turn himself into a bloke who can play a role but then also push forward going the other way....may be good to give him a challenge on Cooney?
Griffen another one need to shut down....McCarthy or Wellingham may have to be given the role, give it to McCarthy

Moles Minson Johnno Giansiracusa
That leaves....Swan, Beams, Lockyer and L.Brown on the bench for us

O'Bree, B.Johnson, Goldsack, N.Brown, Wood not in my team.....but reckon that O'Bree would get a game.....prob at the expense of Sidey

 

[Quicky]

O'Bree usually goes head to head with the oppos best clearance winner. Wouldn't be surprised to see him against Cross, Ball against Boyd. Really it'll be interesting to see who plays on who and how O'Brees role has changed - if at all - with the inclusion of Ball.

 

[smiddaz123]

I'm thinking O'Bree and Ball will rotate on and off the ground a fair bit with each other. Would be a decent idea I guess, we can't run Ball into the ground week in week out, his groin won't last the season if we do that. O'Bree isn't exactly young anymore either. This way we'll have a gun clearance player on the ground at all times.

I was initially opposed to Ball and O'Bree in the one team because the lack of leg speed would kill us (that still worries me), but if they're rotating with each other on and off the ground mainly, it shouldn't be a huge issue.

 

[Histrionics]

I really can't see any reason to start McCarthy ahead of Sidebottom.

Mick loves him, and he has had a good pre season.

 

[Pie eyed]

I'm thinking O'Bree and Ball will rotate on and off the ground a fair bit with each other. Would be a decent idea I guess, we can't run Ball into the ground week in week out, his groin won't last the season if we do that. O'Bree isn't exactly young anymore either. This way we'll have a gun clearance player on the ground at all times.

I was initially opposed to Ball and O'Bree in the one team because the lack of leg speed would kill us (that still worries me), but if they're rotating with each other on and off the ground mainly, it shouldn't be a huge issue.

I have to agree. Both would benefit from the shared gametime and the side would benefit from the increased output, whilst on, from each.