List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[TheVillageIdiot7]

we can continue the discussion ..not tonight though

albeit, if we get 6+ years of Schultz on tonight's form as small forward or any other position then I legit won't be happy nor can I see what you /the club sees, certainly not for the price we paid. he's just not that good

and pls don't say, he was recruited to take over from Elliott once he retires, cos I'll legit spew up in my own analysis!

ps: Cowan > Ryan and Holmes > Macrae wasn't a hindsight call, not from me anyhow.

Mate I’m all on board the PS!!!!!!

Shooter isn’t anywhere near like Elliot (who is?!?)….so no….he 100% wasn’t drafted for that role. Anyone who thinks he was is crazy IMO.
I’ve said before….he’s more Papely (with less skill but more defense).

He’s 100% built for our style and team. Which means he’s worth more to us than other teams.

At the end of day, we’re really just at odds with the price.
Which I understand your POV and respect (whether I agree or not).

Only time will tell that story.

 

[sam_e]

Mate I’m all on board the PS!!!!!!

Shooter isn’t anywhere near like Elliot (who is?!?)….so no….he 100% wasn’t drafted for that role. Anyone who thinks he was is crazy IMO.
I’ve said before….he’s more Papely (with less skill but more defense).

He’s 100% built for our style and team. Which means he’s worth more to us than other teams.

At the end of day, we’re really just at odds with the price.
Which I understand your POV and respect (whether I agree or not).

Only time will tell that story.

not at odds with just the price.

i woulda:

• kept the future 1st and gone for best available mid in the 2024 draft
• kept #34 (2023) and picked up any of Luamon Lual (went #39), Ollie Murphy (went #41), Zane Zakostelsky (went #51)

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

not at odds with just the price.

i woulda:

• kept the future 1st and gone for best available mid in the 2024 draft
• kept #34 (2023) and picked up any of Luamon Lual (went #39), Ollie Murphy (went #41), Zane Zakostelsky (went #51)

So do you think any of those players have A 5 year career that is guaranteed to be at the level?
Starting…..NOW.
(And I’m been generous on the 5+ year career to help you btw. More like a 7-8 year career).

We’re in the window. Trade for where you are.

How about this years mid/late teens pick? Are they going to have a solid 5+ year career? (Again being generous).

How did they play last night?

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

not at odds with just the price.

i woulda:

• kept the future 1st and gone for best available mid in the 2024 draft
• kept #34 (2023) and picked up any of Luamon Lual (went #39), Ollie Murphy (went #41), Zane Zakostelsky (went #51)

You’re also arguing against Sullivan, Eyre and Bytel.

I.e the concept of a mature age player training with us over a speculative late pick. It’s not how the AFL works (or will works in 2 years when other clubs catch on).

Minimum draft picks are 3.
Bet that draft is only 50 picks (with clubs elevating rookies) in the near future….with the idea to leave as many train on spots available as possible.

Carrying any more than 2-3 18-19 on your list is not great….because predominantly they cannot contribute in a meaningful way.

 

[sam_e]

You’re also arguing against Sullivan, Eyre and Bytel.

I.e the concept of a mature age player training with us over a speculative late pick. It’s not how the AFL works (or will works in 2 years when other clubs catch on).

Minimum draft picks are 3.
Bet that draft is only 50 picks (with clubs elevating rookies) in the near future….with the idea to leave as many train on spots available as possible.

Carrying any more than 2-3 18-19 on your list is not great….because predominantly they cannot contribute in a meaningful way.

dude, i'm not arguing that at all.

i get your point around mature age and not having to wait for young kids to develop & contribute etc etc etc ..trust me, i get it.

i'm simply saying don't give away 1st rounders like its cheap confetti unless there's a bona-fide gun on the table.

which means, in most years, use AT LEAST our 1st round draft pick at the NATIONAL DRAFT.

if ya want to trade away all 2nd and 3rd rounders - like we've successfully done in the past on players like Hill, Frampton, WHE etc, - knock yourself out. if ya want to PASS on all remaining picks at the national draft and have Hiney check out what dregs are available in the SSP spin cycle then also knock yourself out.

but my opening point still stands. and by the way, in no way, am i convinced that a quality 1st year kid (from 1st round pool) can't make a reasonably immediate impact at senior level ..ya just need to pick the decent ones

anywho

 

[sam_e]

watch the current Melb v Gee game and tell me what you think of Caleb Windsor (#6 for Melb), recruited at pick 7 in last year's (2023) draft. Kid is (will be) a jet, playing his 7th game in his first year.

We didn't have pick 7 but my point still stands ..he will be important for their run, on the dry grounds, come finals time. And he'll be a 200 gamer.

Choose one: him or Shooter?

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

dude, i'm not arguing that at all.

i get your point around mature age and not having to wait for young kids to develop & contribute etc etc etc ..trust me, i get it.

i'm simply saying don't give away 1st rounders like its cheap confetti unless there's a bona-fide gun on the table.

which means, in most years, use AT LEAST our 1st round draft pick at the NATIONAL DRAFT.

if ya want to trade away all 2nd and 3rd rounders - like we've successfully done in the past on players like Hill, Frampton, WHE etc, - knock yourself out. if ya want to PASS on all remaining picks at the national draft and have Hiney check out what dregs are available in the SSP spin cycle then also knock yourself out.

but my opening point still stands. and by the way, in no way, am i convinced that a quality 1st year kid (from 1st round pool) can't make a reasonably immediate impact at senior level ..ya just need to pick the decent ones

anywho

It we can guarantee the 1st round is a hit….I’m all aboard the Sam_e train!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately mid teen picks (and beyond) are far from it.

Love the optimism. But that’s not how to build a good list for how you want to play.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

watch the current Melb v Gee game and tell me what you think of Caleb Windsor (#6 for Melb), recruited at pick 7 in last year's (2023) draft. Kid is (will be) a jet, playing his 7th game in his first year.

We didn't have pick 7 but my point still stands ..he will be important for their run, on the dry grounds, come finals time. And he'll be a 200 gamer.

Choose one: him or Shooter?

We didn’t give a top 10 pick for shooter did we?
Confused? What have I missed?

 

[stormskye]

watch the current Melb v Gee game and tell me what you think of Caleb Windsor (#6 for Melb), recruited at pick 7 in last year's (2023) draft. Kid is (will be) a jet, playing his 7th game in his first year.

We didn't have pick 7 but my point still stands ..he will be important for their run, on the dry grounds, come finals time. And he'll be a 200 gamer.

Choose one: him or Shooter?

i can play this game. Dylan Stephens, pick 5? Or shoota?

 

[sam_e]

It we can guarantee the 1st round is a hit….I’m all aboard the Sam_e train!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately mid teen picks (and beyond) are far from it.

Love the optimism. But that’s not how to build a good list for how you want to play.

geezus, everyone is buying into Hiney's inability to pick up decent talent within the first 20 of the national draft.

like i said, give him his gold watch and move forward.

we should be looking to do both: pick the eyes outtta the draft using at least our 1st rounder, leveraging 2nd /3rd rounders to trade in value (Hill, Frampers, WHE etc) and go to work in the $2 bin of rooks, Cat B and SSP.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

watch the current Melb v Gee game and tell me what you think of Caleb Windsor (#6 for Melb), recruited at pick 7 in last year's (2023) draft. Kid is (will be) a jet, playing his 7th game in his first year.

We didn't have pick 7 but my point still stands ..he will be important for their run, on the dry grounds, come finals time. And he'll be a 200 gamer.

Choose one: him or Shooter?

Last time I checked…and I might be wrong so forgive me for being presumptuous….but the pick we gave for Schultz hasn’t actually played yet?!?

 

[sam_e]

We didn’t give a top 10 pick for shooter did we?
Confused? What have I missed?

34 + future 1st (lets say we win it ..18)

ie. best case scenario (if we win in 2024) it'll be pick 34 (2023) and pick 18 (2024). if we finish lower, then the 2024 pick is lower (better).

 

[manicpie]

watch the current Melb v Gee game and tell me what you think of Caleb Windsor (#6 for Melb), recruited at pick 7 in last year's (2023) draft. Kid is (will be) a jet, playing his 7th game in his first year.

We didn't have pick 7 but my point still stands ..he will be important for their run, on the dry grounds, come finals time. And he'll be a 200 gamer.

Choose one: him or Shooter?

I wouldn't be surprised if Windsor isn't even in the side by the end of the year. He's no nick daicos or Harley Reid. Not many play a whole season in their first year, that's usually for the elite

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Last time I checked…and I might be wrong so forgive me for being presumptuous….but the pick we gave for Schultz hasn’t actually played yet?!?

I may be wrong, but I suspect many of those so vehemently opposed to Shoota, are big time Ginni fans.

I too, was a big Ginni fan, but I can clearly see how Schultz is a better fit for our high intensity, high pressure, fast paced game style.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

34 + future 1st (lets say we win it ..18)

ie. best case scenario (if we win in 2024) it'll be pick 34 (2023) and pick 18 (2024). if we finish lower, then the 2024 pick is lower (better).

Ok. So no top 10 pick.

Plus a pick we didn’t end up using.

Got it. Overs.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I wouldn't be surprised if Windsor isn't even in the side by the end of the year. He's no nick daicos or Harley Reid. Not many play a whole season in their first year, that's usually for the elite

He looks extra special at the Dee's because the rest of them are so boring.

 

[sam_e]

Last time I checked…and I might be wrong so forgive me for being presumptuous….but the pick we gave for Schultz hasn’t actually played yet?!?

pick 35 (2023) to Freo, Cooper Simpson has already played a game this year ..not sure if that's the #34 we gave up.

but we gave up #34 (2023) and 1st rounder (2024) ..so we gave up two picks /players

 

[manicpie]

The flag is there for the taking this year. If we get top 4, we can beat anyone. Plenty of concerns for both melb and Geelong

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I may be wrong, but I suspect many of those so vehemently opposed to Shoota, are big time Ginni fans.

I too, was a big Ginni fan, but I can see clearly see how Schultz is a better fit for our high intensity, high pressure, fast paced game style.

Same as R1 last year when Bobby ran down a player to cause a contest and legit created a goal without a stat.

I dare anyone to say we look worse fwd of the ball this year (McStay notwithstanding).

It’s bizarre.

 

[sam_e]

I may be wrong, but I suspect many of those so vehemently opposed to Shoota, are big time Ginni fans.

I too, was a big Ginni fan, but I can clearly see how Schultz is a better fit for our high intensity, high pressure, fast paced game style.

nope, Ginni was physically limited & painfully slow.

i simply would have played HH this year in that role; or promoted someone else to a wing and used Sidey's diminishing running capacity but ever present high footy IQ, to play high HFF.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

pick 35 (2023) to Freo, Cooper Simpson has already played a game this year ..not sure if that's the #34 we gave up.

but we gave up #34 (2023) and 1st rounder (2024) ..so we gave up two picks /players

How upset will you be if we have,
Say pick 15…which is probably closer to 20 with fs/academies.

And then have hawks second, with may be 4 picks later?

Also….how is this years draft talent looking? Super draft?
I mean, you’re so adamant in your defence, you must have an insight into the quality of the draft this year?

Pretty sure this wasn’t factored in at all in the decision to trade.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

nope, Ginni was physically limited & painfully slow.

i simply would have played HH this year in that role; or promoted someone else to a wing and used Sidey's diminishing running capacity but ever present high footy IQ, to play high HFF.

Spoken with hindsight. Doubt you’re saying this prior to round 1.
Recency bias.

 

[BLS World Wide]

We didn’t give a top 10 pick for shooter did we?
Confused? What have I missed?

Was thinking the same thing

 

[sam_e]

Spoken with hindsight. Doubt you’re saying this prior to round 1.
Recency bias.

no, was posting this during trade period last year.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

no, was posting this during trade period last year.

HH still isn’t where we need him For sustained success.

Guess you’re happy with a 6-10 finish as long as we play the kids…yeah