List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[Granit1962]

I watch too much footy due to obsession with fantasy football. He's a 10-15th best player on your list guy at the moment, however he doesn't get the chance to be a ball user at the giants due to Whitfield and Ash, and they haven't let him play much midfield lately. I don't know if he will be effective inside midfield (I have the feeling he will do okay) but very confident he would be able to replace Sideys roll as a wing and impact midfielder. He must be a good runner, always seems to be an option I. Space.

Thanks, could have some upside, still only 25.

 

[JOELY]

- NEW POSTER & URGENT - RE: HARRY PERRYMAN -

Hi guys,

Been reading these forums for 20 years but felt compelled to register an account and give my thoughts account after seeing that we are looking to offer Harry Perryman a godfather offer to come to the pies.

As an avid footy watcher, I have always thought Perryman was an ok if not average player, but definitely a player that has never stood out.
I think many of us have probably had an inflated view of his quality, based on the fact that he has always been a regular in a pretty strong GWS team.

Anyway, considering the reports that we have offered Perryman a godfather circa 7-year $850k (based on media estimates) I felt compelled to do more research on him.

This led me to a feature on the AFL app which lets you view every possession/contest a player has been involved in during a game over the last few years.

For anyone that wants to do this for themselves go onto the AFL app click on the stats tab and then enter a players name in the search box and then click highlights, and each game will pop up to select.

I did this for Perryman and what I found was pretty underwhelming.
After seeing majority of his possessions/involvements in his games over the last few years, it is pretty clear that Perryman is NOT a player we should be targeting, especially at the wages/years quoted.

In summary:

• He is a very slow player (which most of us know), but this is further exacerbated by the fact that he seems to always coast/jog through play, very rarely taking the game on, which really limits his effectiveness as a rebounder.
• Most of his possessions are uncontested / under no pressure, and consist of chips around the back 50 and wings.
• In the rare occasion that he has the ball under pressure or tries to open up play, he seems to always make an error disposing of the ball (which was a suprise as he has always been talked about as a smart/good user).
• He looks to be a relatively average (if not poor) level one-on-one defender and has shown almost zero evidence of being an effective intercept marker.
• Overall, he just seems to be an awkward style footballer, who is a 5/10 in most areas but doesn’t excel at any particular aspect of the game.

While I understand the need to replace Noble, it is pretty clear that Perryman is not the answer. In fact, if that’s what we wanted, then Perryman’s fellow-free agent teammate Isaac Cumming is the answer, who is practically a taller, quicker, stronger, better marking version of Noble - noting that Cumming has only received 4-year deals from SA. Someone like Nick Hind is a cheaper alternative.

Would love someone else to go through the same exercise and see if they come to a different conclusion. I personally struggle to see any evidence/passages of play to suggest he is worth any more than $450-500k p.a.
While I more than most hope Perryman turns out to be a great player for the club (if he does sign), the more I look at this pursuit the more it wreaks of desperation. We have worked so hard to correct the salary cap, only to fail to find any suitable targets, to the point we are now overreaching for a vanilla run-of-the mill player we don’t need. I personally would rather bank the money for someone that can push us closer to another premiership.

Previously, I have had the same sinking feeling when we traded:

• Our future 1st in 2020 for practically peanuts (which cost us a 15-year superstar in Fin Callaghan);
• and our future 1st in 2023 (which ultimately cost us Petracca this year).

Let’s hope this short-sighted move doesn’t cost us LDU/Brayshaw/Rayner in 2025 or Ben King in 2026.

FWIW - I did the same exercise for James Peatling and have a much more positive outlook on his potential. Looks to be a more dynamic version of James Row-bottom/Jack Steele.

Thank you for finding that player highlights section on the app. How did I not know about this?! What a game changer. I've defintely in the past watched full games waiting for the player i want to see to get the ball.

 

[Run n Spread]

Houston would be a great get but the capital required it’s a bit frightening.
Perryman and Kennedy would give the midfield some solid bodies. If Nobes goes and we get a decent pick that’s a bonus. Parker hopefully will improve that spot next season.
Lord has some size about him and developing but again the capital would seem to be offputting.

Kennedy I rate. Carlton have too many of his type and would be handy. Depends again what we'd give up.

 

[SchuPie]

if we traded next years first into the 26 draft instead of the 24 draft, that’s a lot of development lost. We could grab a player this year and by 26 he’s already entering ready made. If we drafted them in 26, then you are looking at 28 onwards. That’s a huge factor

I totally agree
Could we grab a high first and land a mid to work w Nick?
OR
Could we grab 2x late firsts and secure our KPP future?

 

[manicpie]

Kennedy I rate. Carlton have too many of his type and would be handy. Depends again what we'd give up.

Carlton might delist him if there's no suitors. He won't cost much at all

 

[DopeMaster]

I do, but it depends on the reservations. Perryman’s a Noble standard player that will play 20 games a year with decent output and provide cover for roles in the 23. For me I think he’s going to play the midfield minutes that were once destined for Lipinski and he’s an upgrade on 2024 Pendles (in terms of output I’m not sure about overall impact).

The thing is $5m or thereabouts over 6 years, even with the salary cap changes, makes me squirm a little by comparison to our best players. That places him in our top 5 highest paid and I worry about how the masses will react if he struggles then by extension how he handles that pressure. The big contract at a big club has impacted Taranto and Hopper so if we see an overall dip then the external noise impacts internally and you all of a sudden have Hill, IQ, McReery and Maynard demanding pay increases to match Perryman. Things can go south quickly.

I hope he’s mentally prepared for what comes with an overs deal because I think Shoota struggled with the pressure this year.

The money makes me uncomfortable too.

The upside is that the numbers thrown around by footy journos are often wildly inaccurate and sometimes just wild guesses, which is pretty inappropriate given the amount of pressure it then refers back onto the players...

Anyway, here's hoping the reality is a more reasonable offer.

 

[Pistol Night]

Carlton might delist him if there's no suitors. He won't cost much at all

Like they delisted Martin to give Geelong another free reacharound

 

[Run n Spread]

Carlton might delist him if there's no suitors. He won't cost much at all

Doubt it. He'd have value.
If we get a pick 12-28 for.Noble thou I'm inclined to use it and build in some young talent. Would need an absolute gun to.convince me to.trade it. Please no.more Schultz/Mayne type deals. A few of the current youth Allen Jiath may come on but we need more in that demographic.

 

[Scodog10]

Naicos was pretty effective as that HBF creator and pretty useless as a defender...

Naicos>>>>>>Daniel.

We also happened to have Murphy in that defensive mix who had a remarkable ability to cover his teammates.

 

[stormskye]

I totally agree
Could we grab a high first and land a mid to work w Nick?
OR
Could we grab 2x late firsts and secure our KPP future?

Lots will depend on the noble trade I think schu. But for mine, earlier we get started on developing the next gen the better. Will be interesting how high McGuane is rated internally. Might impact what we look at this year. Then also there’s Allan. If the club views Allan as taking the next step next year; then McGuane in 25. Is mid the first pick we look at. Time will tell I guess

 

[Spuddd]

The money makes me uncomfortable too.

The upside is that the numbers thrown around by footy journos are often wildly inaccurate and sometimes just wild guesses, which is pretty inappropriate given the amount of pressure it then refers back onto the players...

Anyway, here's hoping the reality is a more reasonable offer.

The money is the least of my concerns...

Million dollar players will become more and more common in the next 5 years, the average will creep up to half a million very quickly.

We are about to wipe a significant amount of salary off our books in the next few years with Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Miochek all coming toward the end.

I dont see this deal being a reason we couldnt attract a big FA fish like LDU next year if he wanted to come.

 

[DopeMaster]

The money is the least of my concerns...

Million dollar players will become more and more common in the next 5 years, the average will creep up to half a million very quickly.

We are about to wipe a significant amount of salary off our books in the next few years with Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Miochek all coming toward the end.

I dont see this deal being a reason we couldnt attract a big FA fish like LDU next year if he wanted to come.

In isolation it doesn't really matter, but I agree with Scodogs point above about potential flow-on effects it creates.

 

[Vankri]

We bought in the likes of leggy and Frampton and turned them into premiership players. I don't understand why people would have reservations about a quality player like Perryman

To me it’s whether there would be a better midfield option (Peatling, Kennedy) and the salary price.

I 100% agree with the need for a defensively minded midfielder to bring into our mix. I’m just tentative on whether Perryman can do the role at the required level or will end up being moved around the ground where we may not need him as much.

I’ll admit this may be due to limited viewing of his games especially in 20-21 playing as a mid.

Still happy to trust Fly and Leppa. Enough credits in the bank (I like pretty much all our recruiting decisions in the last two seasons including Schultz).

 

[Run n Spread]

Like they delisted Martin to give Geelong another free reacharound

Martin a bit different. 5 years on a mega deal and was injured.most of the time. Still talented thou.
Martin's management have probably said so and so.club have offered x amount what's your offer? Carlton gun shy fearing more investment on injuries say nothing yet or low balled. Martin countered trade me here or I stay and accept in which case you have to delist me or keep.me.
Carlton have probably gone **** it can't be bothered with the hassle. Martin has used what little leverage he had wisely.

 

[manicpie]

In isolation it doesn't really matter, but I agree with Scodogs point above about potential flow-on effects it creates.

I hope we're professional enough as a club to not worry about what others are being paid. This sounds more like something ginni would have a problem with

 

[stormskye]

The money is the least of my concerns...

Million dollar players will become more and more common in the next 5 years, the average will creep up to half a million very quickly.

We are about to wipe a significant amount of salary off our books in the next few years with Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Miochek all coming toward the end.

I dont see this deal being a reason we couldnt attract a big FA fish like LDU next year if he wanted to come.

It’s effectively pick purchasing. If perryman was contracted and wanted a trade, say we pay 650k for him. But then we have to give up draft picks as well. Say we’ve offered him 800 as the FA tax (nobody knows the $). That’s 150k salary cap per season, but let’s us keep picks to potentially grab another good player. What’s more value? A decent draft pick, or 150k ish salary cap. Again nobody knows the $, but adding FA’s and getting some quality kids at the same time is good business to me.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

In isolation it doesn't really matter, but I agree with Scodogs point above about potential flow-on effects it creates.

The same thoughts were voiced about McStay. Now even after missing a GF and much of the 2024 season, his contract seems like a bargain now and we have a key forward with sticky hands and an accurate kick who we didn’t have to hand over a pick for.

 

[Run n Spread]

To me it’s whether there would be a better midfield option (Peatling, Kennedy) and the salary price.

I 100% agree with the need for a defensively minded midfielder to bring into our mix. I’m just tentative on whether Perryman can do the role at the required level or will end up being moved around the ground where we may not need him as much.

I’ll admit this may be due to limited viewing of his games especially in 20-21 playing as a mid.

Still happy to trust Fly and Leppa. Enough credits in the bank (I like pretty much all our recruiting decisions in the last two seasons including Schultz).

Prefer Peatling but with the others clearing out looks like he stays unless Perryman does an about face.
Connor Stone is a reasonable price that could fill a roll.
Also what is the story with Riccardi. Could use him.alongside Mcstay and he seems keen to hang around GWS but was left out in the finals for Keefe. (A bizarre call imo) Again he could be prised out but depends what Keefe does of he retires or not.

 

[manicpie]

To me it’s whether there would be a better midfield option (Peatling, Kennedy) and the salary price.

I 100% agree with the need for a defensively minded midfielder to bring into our mix. I’m just tentative on whether Perryman can do the role at the required level or will end up being moved around the ground where we may not need him as much.

I’ll admit this may be due to limited viewing of his games especially in 20-21 playing as a mid.

Still happy to trust Fly and Leppa. Enough credits in the bank (I like pretty much all our recruiting decisions in the last two seasons including Schultz).

I would cross Peatling out as a mid. The only issue I have with Kennedy is where he fits. There's a few there that do his potential role just as good.

 

[Scodog10]

This notion of “we have to trade 2025 first rounder now” is also a fallacy.

We could keep it next year and target a player, trade them in and still get McGuane.

We could also move it into the following year.

Trading it into 2024 seems to me like an admission that we aren’t chasing a big name trade target.

As to 2024 v 2026 and I’d personally be moving it into 2024 because of the strength of this draft. The only scenario you’re looking to avoid is a bottom six finish with McGuane not being 1st Rd relevant. Which I’d place in the unlikely category not because I don’t believe we there’s no chance we finish bottom 6, but rather because clubs know this far out what they’ve got with these FS and academy types.

 

[Scodog10]

I hope we're professional enough as a club to not worry about what others are being paid. This sounds more like something ginni would have a problem with

It’s not about the players. The managers would drive something like that. Colin Young sees Perryman coming in on that coin and Bobby Hill’s next contract is pushing towards $1m…

 

[TradeDraft]

It’s not about the players. The managers would drive something like that. Colin Young sees Perryman coming in on that coin and Bobby Hill’s next contract is pushing towards $1m…

That be same in every sport

 

[manicpie]

It’s not about the players. The managers would drive something like that. Colin Young sees Perryman coming in on that coin and Bobby Hill’s next contract is pushing towards $1m…

True

 

[Spuddd]

It’s not about the players. The managers would drive something like that. Colin Young sees Perryman coming in on that coin and Bobby Hill’s next contract is pushing towards $1m…

The AFL is no different than the professional services world that many of us operate in.

Everyone gets a pay rise to change companies, in this case its changing clubs.

Itsthe intagibles that kepe people and players around, the benefits, the proximity to home, the balance you have in your life vs uprooting and having to 'start again'.

So yes, a Perryman will cost more than he would get at the Giants & Hill, Maynard, Et. Al would all get more than they are currently on/able to get at the Pies to move.

If hostory is an example, players rarely leave the Pies - Daisy is probably the last big name player in their prime that has done so

 

[manicpie]

The AFL is no different than the professional services world that many of us operate in.

Everyone gets a pay rise to change companies, in this case its changing clubs.

Itsthe intagibles that kepe people and players around, the benefits, the proximity to home, the balance you have in your life vs uprooting and having to 'start again'.

So yes, a Perryman will cost more than he would get at the Giants & Hill, Maynard, Et. Al would all get more than they are currently on/able to get at the Pies to move.

If hostory is an example, players rarely leave the Pies - Daisy is probably the last big name player in their prime that has done so

I wonder if the Sydney players have a problem with grundy being on a million a year regardless of who's paying the majority of it. I don’t think they would.