Test Pakistan v England (3 Test Matches)

[Snarls Barkley]

Stokes' batting really has dropped off

Averages just 27 from 26 Tests in Asia

 

[PhatBoy]

Lyon will be absolutely licking his chops seeing that dismissal of Harry Brook.

He’s been dismissed 8 times in 31 test innings by spin and it’s been slow left arm that’s actually caused him the most trouble.

 

[Plugger35]

This is why test cricket is the best cricket.

It might seem boring for a session or two or even a day or two but it can get exciting just when you least expect it.

 

[Cmarsh]

This is why test cricket is the best cricket.

It might seem boring for a session or two even a day or two but it can get exciting just when you least expect it.

Pity pretty much no one in the stands there to watch it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Averages just 27 from 26 Tests in Asia

It was 30 before this year (still not especially good but showed he could at least do it and coupled with a sub-30 bowling average he was still holding his own overall as an all rounder).

His batting is a real worry in general

 

[Plugger35]

Pity pretty much no one in the stands there to watch it.

They would get bigger crowds in Lahore or Karachi but there are security issues playing tests there.

That is why they are playing two tests in Multan where the security is better there with less crowds.

They are supposed to play the 3rd test in Rawalpindi but there are security issues there too so they might play it in Multan too.

 

[RookiePick]

Note to self: Watch yesterday highlights package.

Sajid Khan bowling Pope/Root/Brook. Should be some excellent celebrations from the mustachioed one, dude is intense af.

 

[ioppolo]

Note to self: Watch yesterday highlights package.

Sajid Khan bowling Pope/Root/Brook. Should be some excellent celebrations from the mustachioed one, dude is intense af.

Anyone know what that stance he did a couple of times represents?

 

[Borisdog]

Murali bowled a handful of balls in his career…leg breaks after Hair called him for throwing

I'll go to my grave certain in my belief that Muralitharan was playing darts.

Not his fault though, more a case of gutless administrators throwing umpires under the bus, combined with a healthy side of "politics"

I remain firmly of the belief he wouldn't have made it past under 14's in most cricketing nations with that action.

 

[Plugger35]

A 5'fer for Sajid Khan and England are 7 down.

 

[Plugger35]

England bowled out for 291, Pakistan with a lead of 75 but knowing them they will probably still find a way to lose this test.

 

[hawkman]

You can't give that out. There was a spike in the frame before and after as well

 

[NYRB]

This is why test cricket is the best cricket.

It might seem boring for a session or two or even a day or two but it can get exciting just when you least expect it.

It’s T20 for me these days. I’ll tune into a test match for a bit here or there or if it’s a riveting final day. Each to their own though.

The countries that care most about test cricket The Big 3, then there is a gap toPakistan/ NZ. SA/SL/WI have slowly lost interest as the money isn’t as good as it is in white ball cricket. For a more competitive landscape, how the ICC go about distributing the revenue in future, to the other mid-tier to lower nations will be key.

 

[Plugger35]

So it looks like Pakistan are on their way to blowing this test with a second innings collapse.

It’s T20 for me these days. I’ll tune into a test match for a bit here or there or if it’s a riveting final day. Each to their own though.

The countries that care most about test cricket The Big 3, then there is a gap toPakistan/ NZ. SA/SL/WI have slowly lost interest as the money isn’t as good as it is in white ball cricket. For a more competitive landscape, how the ICC go about distributing the revenue in future, to the other mid-tier to lower nations will be

I don't mind watching T20s for a bit of hit and giggle but I still prefer watching test cricket, it's still the ultimate form of the game.

 

[Cleavy]

Pakistan almost 250 in front. is that defendable?

 

[MJG14]

Salman is so consistent and dependable with the bat. Really rate him.

 

[Rabish Binney]

I'll go to my grave certain in my belief that Muralitharan was playing darts.

Not his fault though, more a case of gutless administrators throwing umpires under the bus, combined with a healthy side of "politics"

I remain firmly of the belief he wouldn't have made it past under 14's in most cricketing nations with that action.

100% this.

People misunderstood the chucking rule in so far that they said that Murali bowled with a bent arm.

Well yes he did but under the rules of cricket, you could always bowl with a bent arm.

What you were not allowed to do was straighten the arm during and whilst completing the delivery. If you did, you were deemed to have thrown it.

In his action, he clearly straightened his arm and for that I will always view him as a chucker.

As a moot point, I recall watching an Eng vs Sri Lanka test match in England many years ago and Bob Willis was commentating. Murali was turning the ball square (when no other spinner in the test was able to get anywhere near as much turn) and Willis commented (rather subetly) that a bowler would only get that sort of turn if they threw the ball.

I think they changed the rules specifically for Murali? That would be like changing the LBW law so Graham Gooch could be immune from being given out in that fashion when the Aussies toured England in 1989.

 

[corbies]

If Williamson chucks it then so do a lot of other spinners.

The main reason Williamson doesn't bowl much now is he's so injury prone that we can't afford to risk him getting injured bowling

He literally got banned from bowling for chucking. His bowling action was an absolute disgrace.

 

[PhatBoy]

100% this.

People misunderstood the chucking rule in so far that they said that Murali bowled with a bent arm.

Well yes he did but under the rules of cricket, you could always bowl with a bent arm.

What you were not allowed to do was straighten the arm during and whilst completing the delivery. If you did, you were deemed to have thrown it.

In his action, he clearly straightened his arm and for that I will always view him as a chucker.

As a moot point, I recall watching an Eng vs Sri Lanka test match in England many years ago and Bob Willis was commentating. Murali was turning the ball square (when no other spinner in the test was able to get anywhere near as much turn) and Willis commented (rather subetly) that a bowler would only get that sort of turn if they threw the ball.

I think they changed the rules specifically for Murali? That would be like changing the LBW law so Graham Gooch could be immune from being given out in that fashion when the Aussies toured England in 1989.

They changed the rules because of him, for him is somewhat more debatable.

Two key things happened.

1. A demonstration was given from memory during a break in play during a test match in England where he was fitted with a brace that did not allow his arm to straighten. What you said is 100 per cent correct: people had a mistaken believe that the bend in his arm was illegal - it was not. It was the idea that in his release, his bend STRAIGHTENED, which would then cause the delivery to be a throw. In particular they said that his ‘doosra’ should be physically impossible to bowl without throwing the ball, Murali always maintained that it was because of his incredible wrists that he could do it. During the demonstration they got him to bowl his entire repertoire of deliveries without being able to straighten his arm. Sure enough he could produce them all: off-break, top-spinner, doosra. So immediately he showed that it was possible, at least. (Bowling them all day after day at a perfect standard would be another thing obviously).

2. The second thing that happened was that a study was conducted of a whole heap of active bowlers at the time -70-80 or so. I don’t remember the exact number but it was a lot and I think it was conducted by the sports science department at an Australian university. They analysed all the actions of bowlers and found that under the rules of the time, every single bowler they studied, more often than not, broke the allowable amount of ‘change’ in action (ie. how many degrees your arm could straighten during your delivery). The only exception to this was the very rubbish leg spin of West Indian batsman Ramnaresh Sarwan.

As a consequence they changed what the allowable degrees were for both fast bowlers and spinners.

I would say Murali’s biggest ‘crime’ for want of a better term would be that they probably made an arbitrary judgement at that point in time, to make that cut off point align with where his normal amount of straightening fitted into the scale.

 

[Hawksboy72]

And the point of that shot was??????????

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katana]

sajid is hilarious. absolutely loves the contest. good to see.

 

[Rabish Binney]

They changed the rules because of him, for him is somewhat more debatable.

Two key things happened.

1. A demonstration was given from memory during a break in play during a test match in England where he was fitted with a brace that did not allow his arm to straighten. What you said is 100 per cent correct: people had a mistaken believe that the bend in his arm was illegal - it was not. It was the idea that in his release, his bend STRAIGHTENED, which would then cause the delivery to be a throw. In particular they said that his ‘doosra’ should be physically impossible to bowl without throwing the ball, Murali always maintained that it was because of his incredible wrists that he could do it. During the demonstration they got him to bowl his entire repertoire of deliveries without being able to straighten his arm. Sure enough he could produce them all: off-break, top-spinner, doosra. So immediately he showed that it was possible, at least. (Bowling them all day after day at a perfect standard would be another thing obviously).

2. The second thing that happened was that a study was conducted of a whole heap of active bowlers at the time -70-80 or so. I don’t remember the exact number but it was a lot and I think it was conducted by the sports science department at an Australian university. They analysed all the actions of bowlers and found that under the rules of the time, every single bowler they studied, more often than not, broke the allowable amount of ‘change’ in action (ie. how many degrees your arm could straighten during your delivery). The only exception to this was the very rubbish leg spin of West Indian batsman Ramnaresh Sarwan.

As a consequence they changed what the allowable degrees were for both fast bowlers and spinners.

I would say Murali’s biggest ‘crime’ for want of a better term would be that they probably made an arbitrary judgement at that point in time, to make that cut off point align with where his normal amount of straightening fitted into the scale.

Good summary.

However I can’t get my head around that they seemed to instigate a change of rule because of one player?

My skeptical brain tells me that if it was another player from any other country who had a dodgy action, they wouldn’t have even entertained the idea of changing the law.

Might be wrong however.

 

[PhatBoy]

Good summary.

However I can’t get my head around that they seemed to instigate a change of rule because of one player?

My skeptical brain tells me that if it was another player from any other country who had a dodgy action, they wouldn’t have even entertained the idea of changing the law.

Might be wrong however.

They changed the law because everyone was breaking it.
Literally everyone.

The controversy of Murali - and to some extent Saqlain when he started bowling his doosra as well brought it to a real head - but it was after that study that they changed the law because as it stood, every bowler in the world was breaking it regularly.

But if memory serves - don’t quote me on it, but I think Murali was at the higher end of the scale (am genuinely not certain of that but I think he was) in terms of how much he broke the existing allowance by, and when they changed the law, they made sure that it was changed by enough to include virtually everyone in the study including him.

 

[PhatBoy]

What never helped at the time was all these idiots coming out with photos of him with still frames of when he let the ball go with a bent arm: well no shit he literally can’t physically make it go straight and it proves absolutely nothing so that level of hubris made the whole thing ten times worse rather than just getting the thing analysed properly in the first place

 

[katana]

as per, root is the big wicket. so good with his feet. can score runs on turning pitches.